Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

FM Forum Rules
Wedding Resource List
  

FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
  

Archive 2013 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice ...
  
 
truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Hey FMers,

Quick backstory: I met with a potential bride, we clicked-somewhat (she was trying to be "face of stone" and all business but still pleasant enough) we yada yada yada'd and then she emailed me letting me know they were booking (for 2014) but that her dad wanted to talk to me as he was checking out the contract. Cool.

So dad calls me and states he (back when he was married) never recieved his finals so he didnt want to pay up front, he wanted to pay a percentage and then the rest when the files were delivered. I of course was politely letting him know that that that is not how we do business & that it is pretty standard to do it this way. I also invited him to research us and our feedback in that, this day & age of information if you screw up a clients wedding, there should be some paper trail somewhere with unhappy clients (whereas we have only glowing reviews from parents, brides & grooms) Now as he keeps going on about he's making a request and I am saying no, I'm getting more annoyed. I did not let it show in my phone manner, trust me. It just got to the point where he was making a point & I was making a counter point, he remained adamant and it was becoming a "pointless conversation".

I then contact the bride & let her know that although dad & I chatted, he understood my point but did not agree with it, that maybe it would be better if they continue researching other photographers who they may feel more comfortable with or who would be willing to alter their business practices to make them feel better. I did that because I dont feel comfortable working with someone who has distrust issues. I feel it would be an uncomfortable shooting situation and I had never had to deal with that type of question before . I think we did the right thing but....I dont know. I feel kind of bad for the bride but thinking back to her demeanor and then peeping dads issue, I had a bad feeling.

Have you ever had this come up and what did you do?



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:06 PM
form
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


I think it's generally the right thing to avoid clients where you get negative vibes from the start from the b/g/anyone in the immediate family...negativity spreads.


Feb 14, 2013 at 10:09 PM
amonline
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


You done good. Either he'll wise up, or not.


Feb 14, 2013 at 10:11 PM
tdurnan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


I'd back you up 100%. Bad vibe in = Bad vibe out


Feb 14, 2013 at 10:19 PM
kwhaley29
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Sometimes the pain is not worth the paycheck. Maybe you should point him toward Craigslist. He'll probably find plenty of photogs there willing to accommodate his request.


Feb 14, 2013 at 10:26 PM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please



You've got to stand your ground on that. Once they look around and realize it's standard practice, they'll likely come back to you. The guy's just being protective of his daughter, and not understanding how the biz works. They'll be back.



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:27 PM
TRReichman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Hmm, I'm not suggesting that you compromise your policies. But it is the professionals responsibility to EARN trust, not just feel entitled to it. It takes 2 to create bad vibes. Someone is going to earn this person's respect and the job and everyone will most likely walk away happy.

- trr



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:29 PM
truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Thanks fellas. Yeah I felt the same way. And it being a 2014 wedding I thought its best to back out now.

I cant wait to become great & much more expensive that this never comes up again. lol



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:31 PM
truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


TRReichman wrote:
Hmm, I'm not suggesting that you compromise your policies. But it is the professionals responsibility to EARN trust, not just feel entitled to it. It takes 2 to create bad vibes. Someone is going to earn this person's respect and the job and everyone will most likely walk away happy.

- trr


I hear you TRR, but give me an example. I never met the father, I met the bride. She trusted me enough to tell me she wanted to book, then the father comes in with what he 'thinks' I should do versus the way I conduct business. Are you saying I should alter my business model to accomodate clients request based on bad personal situations that happened to them that have nothing to do with me? I'm not being a pr1ck I just want to understand how you wouldve handled that or what other way I couldve earned his trust? I thought I made my point eloquent enough but there was no swaying him.



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:34 PM
TRReichman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


I wouldn't suggest altering policy. I would advocate working with the client to help them believe that you understand their fears and concerns and outline a clear plan as to how you are going to address and solve those concerns. Obviously the father is a relevant stakeholder in the decision as to who is being booked, so I think it is foolish to discount his feelings. I would still advocate being paid, but perhaps offer an addedum to the contract that dictates that you'll refund X amount if the photos aren't delivered within the given time frame? That way you still operate under your own policy, and you help him understand that you're willing to stand by your policy and alleviate his concerns? No harm to you, and perhaps you've addressed his concerns. Granted, I think it is probably possible to talk this out so that he believes in you and no addendum is necessary, I'm just offering examples.

- trr



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:39 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


That makes sense TRR. I appreciate the view & I will definitely keep an addendum idea as a back pocket thing although in this case, dad was really wanting it his way. He seemed to be tuning me out when I didnt agree with him & so it was feeling sorta fruitless.

Thanks again peoples! And Haappy Valentines to anyone with a woman..or man. I dont judge. lol j/k



Feb 14, 2013 at 10:45 PM
julieawhitlock
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


I'm not a fan of power struggles that early on.


Feb 14, 2013 at 11:03 PM
Ian Ivey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Dad had a bad experience with another photographer, and that heightened his sensitivity to a particular risk, namely that a vendor might take the money and not deliver. This is a sensible concern, not the sign of an unreasonable person. We hear stories about this happening every year, sometimes from people who come to this forum to ask for advice about how to make their own photographers deliver.

It's worth noting that you have the same stance this dad has. You are sensitive to a particular risk, namely that the client may make collection difficult after the job is done if you don't collect the full fee before-hand. That, too, is a sensible concern, not unreasonable, and well established here and elsewhere as a real risk.

You're the vendor. He's the customer. So it is your burden, not his, to earn trust. He gives his money to the vendor who earns his trust.

You may not have to earn trust by compromising your policies. It may just take some extra work in conversation, by proving that you understand his concerns, or perhaps by giving him other clients to talk to. Perhaps a small compromise is in order, if only a token.

Unless you've left something crucial out of the description, I don't see this as a power struggle or a big red flag. It's just a guy who's been burned and wants to avoid getting burned again.

And instead of giving him evidence he can trust you, you've basically just argued with him and then told his kid you couldn't navigate past his concerns.




Feb 14, 2013 at 11:30 PM
truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Ian Ivey wrote:
Dad had a bad experience with another photographer, and that heightened his sensitivity to a particular risk, namely that a vendor might take the money and not deliver. This is a sensible concern, not the sign of an unreasonable person. We hear stories about this happening every year, sometimes from people who come to this forum to ask for advice about how to make their own photographers deliver.

It's worth noting that you have the same stance this dad has. You are sensitive to a particular risk, namely that the client may make collection difficult after the job is
...Show more

I agree with you wholeheartedly but one thing you werent privy to was the conversation. It had a bad tone--not on my part-- from the beginning. I was not being argumentative but I did feel on the defensive from the start. I actually like your idea of giving him past clients as references. I didnt think of that & that wouldve definitely been an avenue I should have gone. That being said, Trust me when I say that without ever having met me, he was judging and locked into what happend to him & what he wanted to happen. Period. It wasnt a conversation of "how can we come to an agreement" .. it was " This happened to me & I want this and thats that.."

So no, I dont think I argued with him & told his kid I couldnt navigate past his concerns. I tried to address his concerns the best way I could and when I didnt agree with him it was all over for compromise.

just sayin.



Feb 14, 2013 at 11:44 PM
Ian Ivey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Sorry if my last sentence was too harsh.

I get that he sounded judgmental. In fact, he probably also felt defensive. He was projecting a prior experience onto you and demanding a concession for someone else's sin. When you do that, you know it's going to come across as at least a little offensive, so you naturally feel a bit defensive about taking that stance. I'd give it at least even odds that this was a significant factor in his tone.

It's possible that the guy is genuinely unreasonable. But unreasonable people tend to ask for more unreasonable things; this guy's request was predictable and not in excess of his concern. I get the feeling you had room to negotiate with this guy and just may not have sent the right signals.

Hell, depending on how you worded your note to the bride, it's possible you could still call the dad back and tell him you'll buy him coffee to talk it over.

I say this because I had a similar client experience with a mom and daughter last year who turned out to be some of my favorite clients, so I hate to see folks here miss opportunities because they jump to the wrong conclusions.



Feb 15, 2013 at 12:07 AM
truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


hey Ian, no prob brother. I hope I didnt come off being harsh. I definitely appreciate the point of view and I actually love your idea ofpast brides as references. That would be the way I would want to go & if that doesnt sway someone, I would probably not want to continue further. But seriously thanks for reaching out.




Feb 15, 2013 at 12:49 AM
tobicus
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


tdurnan wrote:
I'd back you up 100%. Bad vibe in = Bad vibe out


+1.



Feb 15, 2013 at 01:02 AM
morganb4
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


Ian, yeah I hear you. I have been in situations when I thought my spider sense was tingling and they turned out to be top clients. However on the balance I would like to think that I am right more than I am wrong so in general I play the odds and back my instincts. I know that the cost of me being wrong, in terms of anxiety and fall out would be too big.

Not saying your wrong at all and within the context of the information we have, I think the guys request was reasonable but I don't think he helped his daughter by digging his heals in and screwing a relationship. This reminds me of the situation a while ago when a member here was dealing with dad (a litigator) who was just kicking holes in the contract all the time. The 'tog walked and the bride lost. Its a shame that because dad has no perspective that she doesn't get who she wants.

My feeling about this is 'what has it got to do with him' but then I have never dealt with this situation ever, or even close to it. If a parent ever got involved in the arrangement then that in itself would be a red flag for me but that partly because I'm used to a very close rapport with the couple.

Not sure I have offered anything constructive here.

Edited on Feb 15, 2013 at 01:55 AM · View previous versions



Feb 15, 2013 at 01:08 AM
sealsphoto
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


I had a similar situation at a bridal show a few years ago. My booth was close to the front door, so I was the second photographer that everyone saw coming in the door. I had a bride and her mother and future mother-in-law stop at the booth early in the day. They spent almost an hour talking with me and looking at books, then wanted to book on the spot. As I went over the contract with the bride I got to the payment section that says everything except albums is paid two weeks before the wedding. The future mom-in-law stated 'we don't pay for anything up front'. I explained why I did it that way, and also pointed out that most everything they were going to look at was going to be pay up front (venue, caterer, etc) but mom wasn't having any of it. I wished them luck and went to the next person waiting to talk to me. About four hours later, bride and her mom (minus future mom-in-law) came back to the booth and booked me. It was a great wedding, and even mom-in-law was fun. It was her only child, and she just didn't understand the wedding industry. I think that you handled yours just fine, and once dad realizes that he is not going to find anybody worth hiring that doesn't do it this way, they may be back.


Feb 15, 2013 at 01:53 AM
truehuss
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · So a potential Brides Father called me and .......Advice Please


UPDATE:

Just got an email from the bride explaining that she spoke to dad and that after looking up our reviews and checking out our work he feels comfortable booking (and paying as agreed upon per the contract) and wanted no ill feelings. She explained that dad can be intense but that he said I handled myself professionally and they would like to move further and book . I feel relieved because as Ian and TRR stated, and I understood, it is a reasonable request but at the same time its just not how it works. I'm glad they understand that.

Thanks to all who chimed in. I thought I handled it correctly but I also see now that in the future I have a few different ways I could approach it thanks to you boys!!

I love Fred Miranda and appreciate all you bastids! lol just kidding fellas.

Thanks!!



Feb 15, 2013 at 02:20 AM
1
       2       3       end




FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password