Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

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RogerC11
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p.2 #1 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

Gochugogi wrote:
RogerC11 wrote:
Recently on the forums I'm noticing examples of the latest bodies and their super high iso abilities. While I can understand the use for it (night sports, weddings, etc) most of the shots that I see posted are usually of somebody sitting on a couch or cat in a living room with horrible white balance and no visual appeal aside from a proper exposure. I'm not really sure what to think of it. It makes me question if people are buying into these new bodies just for the sake of taking photos in the dark. Two things come to mind: the quality of light is still crap even if you're getting the right exposure, depth of field is usually no deeper than f2.8.

Hey it's not cool to make light of boring cat and ugly family member portraits at ISO12800! That's why we spend the big bucks!

I don't think most people buy the latest and greatest photo geek toys to take pictures in the dark. They mainly enjoy the pride of ownership and pixel peeping. The boring cats and ugly family members are merely a humanizing break from lens cap photography and extended MA sessions.
Truer words have never been spoken.

Feb 10, 2013 at 07:50 PM

StillFingerz
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p.2 #2 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

This kind of purest speak seems so ego driven.

So there's no room for anything but art for art's sake.
A camera is only used to create art...
And who defines said art...

The shooter does.

Snobs see no point in the cat image, a finely decorated room, a smiling infant with glowing parents holding in wonderment their beautiful creation.

Talk about blind, your only interest light...

Who gives a flock what gear is at hand, capturing the moment is of most import.
Grow up, shall we ban the home fixer upper to only Kmart tools...

Feb 10, 2013 at 08:07 PM

stanj
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p.2 #3 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

I like high ISO when doing documentary stuff. You have no influence on the light quality nor quantity, you don't get a 2nd shot, and people usually won't wait for you to set up special gear such as a tripod.

Canon EOS 5D Mark III 24 mm f/2.0 1/125 sec 12800 ISO +0.7 EV

Canon EOS-1D X 35 mm f/5.6 1/50 sec 25600 ISO +0.3 EV

Feb 10, 2013 at 08:18 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #4 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

I almost always am shooting high ISO, there are many reasons for using higher ISOs, either to raise your shutter speeds for the action at hand, or to increase your DOF, all while trying to expose properly to keep noise manageable. Also, if you don't have the funds to buy fast primes or zooms, then higher ISOs allow more versatile usage of things like the 55-250 or 70-300 IS, etc.

People really need to think outside their own "photographic box" and think about other things they don't shoot today. Many times these types of polarizing posts start with great intentions but without trying to think broader to other types of shooting needs.

Types of shots from my 1D4/7D where I needed high ISO due to either glass limitations (Sigma 50-500 OS) or needs for aperture/shutter speed (sports, larger DOF to reduce AF issues):

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited on Feb 10, 2013 at 08:26 PM · View previous versions

Feb 10, 2013 at 08:19 PM

PetKal
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p.2 #5 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

StillFingerz wrote:
This kind of purest speak seems so ego driven.

So there's no room for anything but art for art's sake.
A camera is only used to create art...
And who defines said art...

The shooter does.

Snobs see no point in the cat image, a finely decorated room, a smiling infant with glowing parents holding in wonderment their beautiful creation.

Talk about blind, your only interest light...

Who gives a flock what gear is at hand, capturing the moment is of most import.
Grow up, shall we ban the home fixer upper to only Kmart tools...

Jerry, always a poet at heart.

Feb 10, 2013 at 08:22 PM

Sheldon N
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p.2 #6 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

You can't put a price tag or a value on the ability to capture an image with timeless importance.

I took this image of my brother and sister-in-law and their very ill newborn son in a dark hospital room at ISO 25k.

He died 10 days later.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Feb 10, 2013 at 08:32 PM

trumpet_guy
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p.2 #7 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

So sad for them. I am glad you got this photographer while you could.

Feb 10, 2013 at 09:32 PM

Monito
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p.2 #8 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

RogerC11 wrote: But in a controlled situation (where I can add light) I just really don't see any visual appeal of using super high ISO for around the house for family or animal photos. After all, IMO photography is all about capturing light, not the pursuit of crappy light trying to make something useable from it.

Study light some more, grasshopper. Don't judge "available light" by family snaps. There's a lot more to it than that.

Adding light by flash or high wattage lamps can completely alter the mood and ambience and destroy the emotional connection the viewer makes with the photograph.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:42 PM

RogerC11
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p.2 #9 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

Monito wrote:
RogerC11 wrote: But in a controlled situation (where I can add light) I just really don't see any visual appeal of using super high ISO for around the house for family or animal photos. After all, IMO photography is all about capturing light, not the pursuit of crappy light trying to make something useable from it.

Study light some more, grasshopper. Don't judge "available light" by family snaps. There's a lot more to it than that.

Adding light by flash or high wattage lamps can completely alter the mood and ambience and destroy the emotional connection the viewer makes with the photograph.

I know there's a lot more to it than that and it was illustrated quite well by the images posted by stan where "interesting" light such as one that comes off of a control switchboard or flood lights on a space shuttle which create an appealing image. This is different than the usual weak tungsten household lighting.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #10 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

RogerC11 wrote:
Recently on the forums I'm noticing examples of the latest bodies and their super high iso abilities. While I can understand the use for it (night sports, weddings, etc) most of the shots that I see posted are usually of somebody sitting on a couch or cat in a living room with horrible white balance and no visual appeal aside from a proper exposure. I'm not really sure what to think of it. It makes me question if people are buying into these new bodies just for the sake of taking photos in the dark. Two things come to mind: the quality of light is still crap even if you're getting the right exposure, depth of field is usually no deeper than f2.8.

I recently shot a BJJ tournament with a 5dii and 70-200 2.8II at ISO 6400 and thought the shots came out decent and can see why the high ISO ability is useful in situations like these. But in a controlled situation (where I can add light) I just really don't see any visual appeal of using super high ISO for around the house for family or animal photos. After all, IMO photography is all about capturing light, not the pursuit of crappy light trying to make something useable from it. This is the end of my rant. Thank you all for listening.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Access
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p.2 #11 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

RogerC11 wrote:
Recently on the forums I'm noticing examples of the latest bodies and their super high iso abilities. While I can understand the use for it (night sports, weddings, etc) most of the shots that I see posted are usually of somebody
I use it in real life, I used ISO 3200/6400 just last month (in a dark theater) and I've used ISO 102400 a few times last year for real applications (though only very rarely).

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:52 PM

RogerC11
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p.2 #12 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

Pixel Perfect wrote:
RogerC11 wrote:
Recently on the forums I'm noticing examples of the latest bodies and their super high iso abilities. While I can understand the use for it (night sports, weddings, etc) most of the shots that I see posted are usually of somebody sitting on a couch or cat in a living room with horrible white balance and no visual appeal aside from a proper exposure. I'm not really sure what to think of it. It makes me question if people are buying into these new bodies just for the sake of taking photos in the dark. Two things come to mind: the quality of light is still crap even if you're getting the right exposure, depth of field is usually no deeper than f2.8.

I recently shot a BJJ tournament with a 5dii and 70-200 2.8II at ISO 6400 and thought the shots came out decent and can see why the high ISO ability is useful in situations like these. But in a controlled situation (where I can add light) I just really don't see any visual appeal of using super high ISO for around the house for family or animal photos. After all, IMO photography is all about capturing light, not the pursuit of crappy light trying to make something useable from it. This is the end of my rant. Thank you all for listening.

You seem to be ignoring the large number of photographers that have no control over light and at the mercy of nature, maybe you've heard of wildlife photographers for example. Shooting at dusk and trying to stop action, or shooting in a dark forest on an overcast day. Can't always just say, yes I'll wait for the perfect lighting before I shoot.

TBH, you're right. I had completely overlooked wildlife photography but I had just grouped anything that required action stopping shutter speeds under "sports" or wedding. But yes, wildlife photography is a good example and valid point to this discussion.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:54 PM

timbop
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p.2 #13 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

Rogerc11, I completely see your point - which has once again been turned into some kind of p**ing contest here on dpreview - er, fredmiranda.

Roger's point: sometimes available light is really crappy, casting horrible shadows in the eyes, etc. In those cases, using ridiculously high iso to properly expose a bad image can be done better. He's not being a snob; on the contrary he is saying that for these cases the photographer is better off:
1. moving the subject, his position, etc to get a better lit shot
2. adding light from flash, reflector, etc
3. not taking the shot
4. realizing that the shot could have been better and finding a way to do so next time

That DOESN'T mean there are not cases for using high iso. The shots posted so far prove that, and the OP listed some of those cases.

It's really not necessary to turn every thread into a heated "us vs them" thread.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:56 PM

robbymack
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p.2 #14 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

Seem this rant has more to do with the subject matter than simply photos being taken at high iso's. when downsized for the web even iso 105k looks decent. I can certainly attest to 5diii files being usable in print up to iso 12k as long as youre not printing super large and even pushing to 25k in a pinch and printing "smallish". I see it as a tool, if its necessary use it. I don't think the iso says anything about the skill of the photographer or the subject matter. Some folks don't like/understand flash and that's ok. If new high iso camera help them capture moments (no matter how trivial they may seem) more power to them.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Imagemaster
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p.2 #15 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

You seem to be ignoring the large number of photographers that have no control over light and at the mercy of nature, maybe you've heard of wildlife photographers for example. Shooting at dusk and trying to stop action, or shooting in a dark forest on an overcast day. Can't always just say, yes I'll wait for the perfect lighting before I shoot.

Ditto, you seem to be ignorant of how important high ISO is to those that have no control over lighting and often only seconds to capture the image.

I suppose I should have used multiple flashes to get a better shot at the f-stop I needed when I was this close to my subject

No thanks, and ISO 1600 allowed me to use the little natural light that was available.

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV 300 mm f/16.0 1/125 sec 1600 ISO -0.7 EV

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:59 PM

Monito
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p.2 #16 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

RogerC11 wrote: This is different than the usual weak tungsten household lighting.

That's the nub of your problem. That's all you are seeing it as. Weakness has nothing to do with it. Weakness is the reason for the need for high ISO.

Look at light more. You can often ask someone to sit closer to a lamp without breaking a mood, but if the mood or ambiance is delicate, then you have to really closely observe the light and catch the moments when the light makes a good composition.

Often you seem to get better light by going in closer. When you do that, you catch more subject movement and you need higher ISO for higher shutterspeed. You get shallower depth of field by going in closer, so you need more ISO to get a smaller aperture.

If you aren't seeing the light that is there, up your game. #1. Spend more time really looking more at the light you hate ("weak tungsten household lighting"). Look for pools of light. Look for reflections of fill light from walls and other surfaces. #2. Spend more time shooting in light you hate and really take your time to find the moments when the light works.

Feb 10, 2013 at 10:59 PM

jj_glos
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p.2 #17 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

I can't wait until I get my grubby mits on a new generation high ISO performing camera. I'm a happy snapper who takes plenty of family pics, and using a flash just isn't appropriate. For paid work ill use one without issue, I'll also like to balance ambient so can still be around ISO 800 if not a tad more. Don't forget that higher performing ISO cameras also tend to have cleaner ISO at lower levels which is very useful too.

Feb 10, 2013 at 11:15 PM

cputeq
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p.2 #18 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

Roger I believe most of the time people are just gushing about the technical aspects of whatever is their newest camera, not necessarily posting great works of art.

I mean, c'mon, who hasn't gotten the latest and greatest "high ISO beast" and taken whatever shots they can get their hands on, only for comparison's sake? And, if the comparison is good, some people like sharing the shots, just to display noise profile.

Feb 11, 2013 at 12:04 AM

Ben Horne
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p.2 #19 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

I use my DSLR pretty much 100% for video, and extreme high ISO is something that has revolutionized this industry. It's great to be able to shoot video by moonlight with a 50mm 1.4 lens. Nearly all my video is recorded in the wilderness, and without the high ISO ability, I would be limited to recording video only when the sun was above the horizon.

Feb 11, 2013 at 12:19 AM

StillFingerz
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p.2 #20 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?

RogerC11 wrote:
StillFingerz wrote:
This kind of purest speak seems so ego driven.

So there's no room for anything but art for art's sake.
A camera is only used to create art...
And who defines said art...

The shooter does.

Snobs see no point in the cat image, a finely decorated room, a smiling infant with glowing parents holding in wonderment their beautiful creation.

Talk about blind, your only interest light...

Who gives a flock what gear is at hand, capturing the moment is of most import.
Grow up, shall we ban the home fixer upper to only Kmart tools...

A bit offended are we? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Opinions are like A-holes...

Offended no, just a poor cripple that quite enjoys the newer cleaner higher ISOs, knows of light, seeks it out, but as my member name hints, I've still fingers, paralyzed they tend to shake from fatigue so higher ISOs help with faster shutter speeds, which allow moi to shoot hand held, maintain some of the freedom lost so many decades ago and continue to enjoy, have fun shooting...

Opinion doesn't offend, shallow closed minded thinking kinda does.

Edited on Feb 11, 2013 at 12:42 AM · View previous versions

Feb 11, 2013 at 12:34 AM

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