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Archive 2013 · CPS Eligibility Requirements
  
 
StillFingerz
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


PetKal wrote:
CPS Canada is geared ( ) towards providing certain benefits to people who own pro gear.
The more pro gear you own, the better they like you. Why would that be ? Perhaps because Canon's business is to sell gear. The more pro gear they sell, the more money they make. Businesses with any smarts whatsoever treat their best customers in special little ways. It's kind of a volume discount. In the end, Canon really doesn't care much what I do with my gears, whether I just store them in a curio, or shoot Bar Mitzvas for money. As long
...Show more

Indeed Peter, like any successful business knows...repeat customers are your best profit maker and cheapest form of advertisement/marketing. It's a simple model, been used for thousands of years, make a dependable/usable product, give the customers choice, give them a small bonus item...freebie...that doesn't cut into the margin tooooo much and you stay in business...and have mostly happy customers.

Back when I bought my first starter kit; an A-1 and a few primes, the camera store I purchased from gave me the standard cleaning kit as a thank you. But what hooked me was their willingness, enthusiasm for the craft, and they've had my business ever since. The shop in question is still going strong; Cal's Camera in Newport Beach. It's a smallish place with great service, wonderful photography nuts, dedicated to the art, and the sale.

I don't see CPS, the CDLC or CLP as anything but good/solid, 'Canon' product customer service/support. Canon puts out a ton of on-line materials; docs and videos...people just need to leverage every bit of what Canon gives us, stop complaining about the small BS and enjoy photography.

As for the requirements debate, I wonder what the actual membership level is in CPS, pro vs whatever, and do that many folks, the masses, even bother to send in their warranty cards or are they still in the box with the unread manual.

Was that a rant...oops...maybe I need to go shoot something



Feb 13, 2013 at 02:26 PM
raulbena
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


So RobertLynn and veroman, you would rather have:

Canon asks for "proof you are a WORKING FULL TIME PROFESSIONAL" and 'boots out' thus defined non-pros. Next fiscal quarter, they note that they now have, say, greater than 30% less membership (read income and thus budget) and inform its remaining membership they will have to increase fees OR have to cut staff (thus increasing turn around time).

My guess is a few years ago Canon noticed CPS services were underutilized (i.e. they could meet promised services for MORE people than they were servicing.) So a suggestion was to make open it to a larger audience (a bunch of well to do hobbyists that baby their stuff so would never really use the service) to subsidize OVERALL lower membership costs to all, including pros.

My 0.02.



Feb 13, 2013 at 03:11 PM
UgashikBob
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


As OP I just wanted to clear the air again. My intent was to find out if there was a "legitimate" path for a non-pro by any definition with Platinum level equipment requirements to become a Gold CPS member. My ONLY desire was to receive the two cleaning/inspection coupons that because of my location almost justify the cost in return shipping alone. I have no desire for trinkets or any association with pro status that some must believe all of us pet photographers so heavily covet. To me CP should stand for cleaning program and the rest should be given to people who value it.


Feb 13, 2013 at 04:06 PM
Wrei
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


UgashikBob, I agree with you. Canon should have a program for us "less than full time" camera gear users, providing discounts with quicker turn-around and shipping. After I registered my gear online at Canon, but before I joined CPS, they sent me a free cleaning coupon and a special phone number for support and 3 day expediting. This made me think, since I had enough gear to qualify for the highest CPS membership, I should join, which I did with no questions asked by Canon. After reading RobertLynn's remarks for the last two years about us "less than full time" CPS members, I sent Canon an email telling them I would not be renewing because I did not meet their "full time" status. They replied telling me they would be happy to have me rejoin when I met their requirements.

Not being a CPS member isn't that big of a deal for me since I clean my own sensors and lenses, however, it would be nice to have a program for us "less than full time" users. Having quick turnaround (+ shipping) and discounts for repairs such as lens calibrations would be nice. Plus, like you said, shipping was nice, especially since I have left suburbia for the rural fresh air and space (UPS and FedEx have a hard time finding me)! And the reality is, those of us with a lot of expensive equipment not doing this for 100% of our income, like RobertLynn, tend to spend more time/resources maintaining our equipment vs the average consumer

Ray

ps: I am not a professional golfer, but I use "pro-line" equipment. One day on the course, through no abuse, my Calloway 3 wood shaft broke. I used it for 3 years, and the graphite must have had a fabrication defect. (It separated into 2 pieces as I pulled it out of the bag.) I asked several local shops if they could match the shaft, but they couldn't. I decided to bite the bullet and send it to Calloway. They asked for a credit card advance for the repair. They expedited the repair and I had the club back in 7 days, with no charge. Sometimes, good companies do good things for the people who spend a lot of money buying their pro-line gear.



Feb 13, 2013 at 04:57 PM
RobertLynn
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


raulbena wrote:
So RobertLynn and veroman, you would rather have:

Canon asks for "proof you are a WORKING FULL TIME PROFESSIONAL" and 'boots out' thus defined non-pros. Next fiscal quarter, they note that they now have, say, greater than 30% less membership (read income and thus budget) and inform its remaining membership they will have to increase fees OR have to cut staff (thus increasing turn around time).

My guess is a few years ago Canon noticed CPS services were underutilized (i.e. they could meet promised services for MORE people than they were servicing.) So a suggestion was to make open it to a
...Show more

Ill restate what I've said.

On their website, they state you need to be a full time image maker or whatever their wording is.
Those are the rules *they* set. Not me. (So why am I the bad guy?)

If they (as starnut said, and whom I believe) send emails to people who inquire and say just sign up, then by all means sign up.

The onus is on Canon to check that people are what Canon asks of them on their site. If Canon is altogether dropping the professional requirement, then they should do that and remove all ambiguity. For instance, is it case by case that they say yea or nay in an email? If so what criteria do they follow? If they have a set criteria why not make that the requirements?

Can you understand what I'm getting at here? It's not about me wanting entitlements. It's not about me being better than anyone. It is either that people are fraudulently signing up, or Canon by having official and unofficial policies/not enforcing them.

What I would say is this,
I am not eligible to sign up for unemployment, because I have a job.
I am not eligible to sign up for welfare, I make too much.
I am unable to join the staff at hooters because I'm a guy!
A 13 year old isn't eligible for a free meal with his parents, at restaurants that offer them 12 and under.


If I looked at the website, and I'm a guy who spent my money on gear and I met the points, not the pro status, I wouldn't sign up. I wouldn't lie on my application. How does that make me seem as though I'm acting better than someone else? How does that make me have an elitist attitude?
It doesn't make me want an entitlement either.


There's a reason there's structure in life. Otherwise it creates anarchy. If the website states both a status requirement and a points requirement, why ignore one and not the other?


Getting angry at me isn't helping anyone join cps. It isn't costing me any money and if it is making money for you, great! If you want to have canon drop the requirement, call them! I have no power over it.





Feb 13, 2013 at 05:58 PM
Shutterbug2006
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Just to stir the pot a bit.....

It is a generally held view that professionals are members of a particular society. This is true whether they are a doctor, lawyer, optician, optometrist, or even a photographer. Professionals generally renew their membership in the society every year to maintain their professional status.

They pay for business licenses, rent business phone lines, register with local, state or federal governments and file documents for tax purposes, and most often conduct themselves in a professional manner at all times. They often advertise.

Anyone can make up a website, get a FaceBook or SmugMug account, buy a camera, and take a few pictures at a wedding or concert and post them online and call themselves a professional photographer. It doesn't make it true.

The definition of professional: "A professional is a person who is paid to undertake a specialized set of tasks and to complete them for a fee. The traditional professions were doctors, engineers, lawyers, architects and commissioned military officers. Today, the term is applied to nurses, accountants, educators, scientists, technology experts, social workers, artists, librarians (information professionals) and many more.

The term is also used in sports to differentiate amateur players from those who are paid—hence "professional footballer" and "professional golfer". Many companies include the word professional in their store name to imply the quality of their workmanship or service."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional



Feb 13, 2013 at 06:01 PM
RobertLynn
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


I also have questions regarding it (and they've never answered them)

What is their definition of full-time? Is it 40 hours a week? Is it x amount of shutter clicks?
Is it only time holding a camera? Does it count editing/travel/client meetings/business related items?

There's times that I am in my car going to and from events longer than I'm shooting and editing them.




Feb 13, 2013 at 06:06 PM
kylebarendrick
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


I wouldn't lie on the application either. But if I answer each item truthfully and they decide to give me a membership, then I don't really care what the website says about pro status. To me, the way they enforce the rule gives a pretty good definition of what they mean by it.



Feb 13, 2013 at 06:07 PM
Shutterbug2006
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
I also have questions regarding it (and they've never answered them)

What is their definition of full-time? Is it 40 hours a week? Is it x amount of shutter clicks?
Is it only time holding a camera? Does it count editing/travel/client meetings/business related items?

There's times that I am in my car going to and from events longer than I'm shooting and editing them.



What percentage of your income is derived from photography? Is it enough to feed, clothe and house a family?



Feb 13, 2013 at 06:14 PM
lowellmtyler
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


First of all, let me say that I'm not here to judge anyone's character. I can only control the choices I make.

My feeling is that what a CPS Representative says may depend on a number of factors. It may depend on their mood at that time, what they ate for lunch or dinner that day, or the levels of serotonin, dopamine, and oxytocin in their body at the time. There's just no telling what possible response regarding "permission" to apply for CPS membership one will get.

What I can say, is here is what a CPS Technical Support Representative wrote me TODAY in response to an inquiry:

"To qualify for CPS Membership, your equipment must a certain CPS point value and you must meet the following criteria; A full-time self-employed individual or an employee of a professional imaging business who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images. While member's credentials are not periodically verified, abuse or misuse of CPS Membership may lead to CPS Membership termination."


I can't and won't speak for others, but that certainly seems to match what is stated on the website. I am no professional photographer trying to earn a living or put food on my family's plate, so I won't be trying to circumvent the system and red tape. While I would love the perks of a "Gold" membership, I would not want the servicing of my gear to interfere with a legit Pro Photographer's chance of earning a living or getting a gig that helps to support his/her family.

Who knows what "butterfly effect" missing a photo opportunity will have on one's career down the line? Maybe you meet someone, or get THE SHOT that completely changes your career. A shot that you might have missed if CPS was backed-up servicing your equipment.

I know such a person whose career jumped after they captured a special shot while on vacation with family for a wedding. The shot was submitted and showcased as a "Photo Of The Day" of a then-popular website. This in-turn caused him to make certain (life)choices and changes, and helped to strengthen his growing portfolio. This subsequently got him many more opportunities for serious wedding gigs. These gigs gave him opportunities to refine his style, completely changed his career outlook, and eventually took him in directions that he never imagined. He has since traveled the world doing different kinds of photo ops, secured invites to photo events and shows, and even opened the door to be featured in articles and stories.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have gotten there in time without that shot, but it certainly helped him. Now, imagine if his gear was sent to CPS for servicing and wasn't available for his family trip? This photographer just happened to be on a vacation for a wedding with family, and had his camera handy to take some shots at a sunrise wedding shoot.

It's not important who the photographer is, so much as how small chances can (and do) eventually open doors to larger opportunities down the road. The key for a Pro photographer might very well be getting their serviced equipment back on-time from at CPS.

But, I digress... Hey, look at the time. It's time for me to go shoot something on my lunch break. Bye-bye.



Feb 13, 2013 at 10:39 PM
 

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Gunzorro
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Let me give a practical comparative example.

One of my daughters is an actress, and has appeared in several small films, TV series and even a lucrative Apple commercial. She was a member of SAG and AFTRA before they combined. Since she has qualified with enough work to be required (not simply allowed) to join the acting unions/guilds she and many others are considered professionals. It matters not that only about 10% of the membership makes enough money to support themselves, and far fewer are "rich" making a comfortable living from entertainment ventures. Still, they all pay their dues and are allowed various perks, even when they go years between acting gigs. No one questions that they have met the criteria of working professionals, even if it is the bare minimum and several years out of date.

Where there is life, there is hope, remember?

I don't see the Canon program as much different, although the stakes are less high.

If SAG/AFTRA or Canon CPS had to rely on the incredibly small pool of actual successful full time professional actors or photographers to keep the doors open, both organizations would collapse due to lack of members.

So stop worrying about cutting in line and taking income out of the pockets of the seriously successful pros! Without you joining, the pros would be back to the old days of scrounging someone local to fix their stuff -- increasingly hard to do with the modern technology. The system works and wannabe pros are an essential part of the package, unless you want to see repair rates go sky high for the few remaining qualifying members.



Feb 13, 2013 at 11:02 PM
dadgummit
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


I just called CPS and explained this thread asking for clarification. I was told you do not need to be full time; as long as you make money using/ relying upon Canon equipment you can join.

Edited on Feb 13, 2013 at 11:53 PM · View previous versions



Feb 13, 2013 at 11:36 PM
uz2work
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


When I first saw this thread a couple of days ago and it was still in its first page, I thought about sharing a few thoughts.

When I just came back to the thread and read through the posts, I decided that I am richer for having decided not to participate in the thread.

Normally, I would not want to make an OT post and distract from a meaningful discussion. I this case, I'm not sure what I am distracting. In any case, I apologize to those who might feel that I have distracted them.

Les



Feb 13, 2013 at 11:49 PM
lowellmtyler
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


dadgummit wrote:
I just called CPS and explained this thread asking for clarification. I was told you do not need to be full time; as long as you make money using/ relying upon Canon equipment you can join.


This is about as simple as one can get. Thanks for this.



Feb 14, 2013 at 12:16 AM
veroman
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


dadgummit wrote:
I just called CPS and explained this thread asking for clarification. I was told you do not need to be full time; as long as you make money using/ relying upon Canon equipment you can join.


Not just any Canon gear. They're very specific about which gear comes under CPS guidelines. A t4i doesn't qualify (last time I looked), the 75-300 USM doesn't qualify, etc, etc, etc.
- Steve



Feb 14, 2013 at 01:11 AM
Paul Mo
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


What sucks about CPS though is the rule that CPS New Zealand (for example) will only allow you to register Canon gear bought in NZ from an authorized store. So, a travelling NZ photographer who buys a lens in Hong Kong cannot register that lens with CPS NZ.

Now I may get jumped on here, but this is from the horse's mouth. I was told by CPS, Auckland, New Zealand, that my lenses bought in Thailand couldn't be registered despite being an NZ citizen and the lenses from a legit source.

Do you know any different?

p.s. It also applied to my 5D from BH Photo.



Feb 14, 2013 at 02:06 AM
dadgummit
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


veroman wrote:
Not just any Canon gear. They're very specific about which gear comes under CPS guidelines. A t4i doesn't qualify (last time I looked), the 75-300 USM doesn't qualify, etc, etc, etc.
- Steve


Sorry, yes you are correct. You need 20 'points' worth of equipment for Gold level. If you have a semi-pro body and a couple of L lenses you are good. a 70-200 f2.8 IS II is 12 points and the 16-35 f2.8 II is 8 points for instance.



Feb 14, 2013 at 05:46 AM
ComicDom1
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


veroman wrote:
Uh ... I don't think so. Unless I'm mistaken ... and among other things ... there are a minimum number & type of lens and body requirements, i.e. shooting with a Rebel doesn't qualify for registering the camera with CPS.

When I registered several years ago, I also had to send in 3 or 4 samples of pro work and indicate my income from photography, though I don't have to do that when I renew my membership each year. But I DO have to keep my gear list current if I expect to get CPS service.

Are you saying all this has
...Show more


This will be interesting to find out. When I applied many years ago, I have to own certain equipment, show that I was a working professional photographer providing a letter from my employer stating so and submitting a couple of tear sheets to prove I was published. Of course that was back in the very early 2000s around the time of the 1D and 1D II.

Jason



Feb 15, 2013 at 03:25 AM
ComicDom1
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


veroman wrote:
The word "professional" isn't "just" a marketing term. In fact, it isn't a marketing term at all. It has far greater depth and meaning than that. The fact that it has lost some of its meaning ... or ALL of its meaning according to your post ... is simply a sad commentary on the state of business today and the overall state of client/vendor relationships.

One of the meanings behind the word "professional" is that it communicates very high levels of both experience and excellence. Where the experience and excellence have yet to be attained, the word "professional" can be applied
...Show more

Wait, did I miss something? Isn't anyone who owns a cell phone camera now a professional? Wasn't there recently a photographer recognized for this because he used his cell phone to capture images in a war zone because he claimed that it was easier than carrying a bag of heavy equipment?

If this is the case, I am surprised that Canon is not making Professional level cell phone cameras and offering CPS membership and benefits to those that buy them.

Its interesting how Photography Professionals are now being defined by the amount of gear they own instead of what they create and accomplish with that gear. The facts are standards are changing. The demanding photo editors of the past are retiring, What was not acceptable in the past is now becoming acceptable.

Professional photographers have taken a big hit in both opportunities and income because every Tom, Dick, Harry, or Mary that owns a Digital Camera is now a photographer whether they have developed their skills or not. Take a few minutes and look at what a photographer that sells an image to Getty gets paid.

I will say and admit that there are lots of talented photographers that exist. Many of them do not claim to be professional but do professional quality work. There are also those that care more about the art they create, the moment in time they caught, or the wildlife behavior they captured.

There are lots of reason's to photograph, and not all of them involve making a living from it. Those that do, should be respected. I also realize besides a level of experience and competence, a lot of how much income you earn as a photographer has more to do with marketing skills than it does the actual photography.

Jason





Feb 15, 2013 at 04:07 AM
Chris Anthony
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


lowellmtyler wrote:
First of all, let me say that I'm not here to judge anyone's character. I can only control the choices I make.

My feeling is that what a CPS Representative says may depend on a number of factors. It may depend on their mood at that time, what they ate for lunch or dinner that day, or the levels of serotonin, dopamine, and oxytocin in their body at the time. There's just no telling what possible response regarding "permission" to apply for CPS membership one will get.

What I can say, is here is what a CPS Technical Support Representative wrote me
...Show more


I have no bone in this fight, but i just want to point out that a working "professional" better have at least one if not multiple backups, so the theory that they may miss a shot due to a camera in for service seems far fetched.
If you only have one camera and it's in for service causing you to miss a shot, then you are.... well... an amateur...



Feb 15, 2013 at 05:20 AM
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