Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3      
4
       5       6       end
  

CPS Eligibility Requirements
  
 
Sarsfield
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Me choosing to call someone a jackass has nothing to do with my professional character. Not one iota.

So you say.



Feb 12, 2013 at 10:14 PM
veroman
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
.... Me choosing to call someone a jackass has nothing to do with my professional character. Not one iota.


I called people a lot worse than that. Has nothing to do my professional character either. +1 Robert.

- Steve



Feb 12, 2013 at 10:17 PM
tr1957
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


People seem to be focusing on the "professional" part of the rquirement. To me the more restrictive phrase is "full-time working image makers". Clearly most casual pros or hobbyists (of which I am one) do not meet the full-time requirement, even if they meet the definition of "professional". Someone can clearly be both professional and part-time, which by Canon's rules makes that person ineligible.

CPS US requirements: The Canon Professional Services program is available to full-time working image makers that meet the membership level requirements of professional status and equipment ownership.



Feb 12, 2013 at 10:25 PM
NCAndy
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


I could say I'm full time but business is slow. lol


Feb 12, 2013 at 10:34 PM
RobertLynn
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Sarsfield wrote:
So you say.

I would agree with you, then we would both be wrong.

NCAndy wrote:
I could say I'm full time but business is slow. lol

Lol.

This is one of the requirements that I do question.

What do they consider you working? The actual 1/3987423985729 of a second that the shutter clicks? Is it anything you do for your business? taxes, transport, any of that stuff. If I shoot 1000 photos at an event, and let's just say I use 1/1000 of a second...that means I only shot for 1 full second! lol.

Some places state full-time is 40 hours a week. Some say it's your "only" income.

I actually called Canon about this one (i also maintain a secondary income source as well as my business). They had no real answer other than "sign up". I know I can rack up 40 hours in a weekend, easy. If I shoot in another state (very common) I've got 5-6 hours each way in transit. So I've got 12 hours in before I even shoot!
tr1957 wrote:
People seem to be focusing on the "professional" part of the rquirement. To me the more restrictive phrase is "full-time working image makers". Clearly most casual pros or hobbyists (of which I am one) do not meet the full-time requirement, even if they meet the definition of "professional". Someone can clearly be both professional and part-time, which by Canon's rules makes that person ineligible.

CPS US requirements: The Canon Professional Services program is available to full-time working image makers that meet the membership level requirements of professional status and equipment ownership.

Here's the thing, what do they count as time in your trade? Only shooting or anything business/photography related?



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:33 PM
abraxsis
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


As a noob to the FM forum I won't get into the middle of this little tryst. It all seems a little less than a non-issue to me as long as Canon delivers what they say they will to everyone. But I will say this ...

"If you are out there shooting, things will happen for you. If you're not out there, you'll only hear about it." -Jay Maisel



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:47 PM
StarNut
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
I don't think being professional has anything to do with saying whether or not someone is being a jackass when they fradulently enter a program. Would it be better for you if I chose to word it differently?

The sitution is quite simple. There is a plethora of individuals of unscrupulous character whom would stoop to unethical and immoral treatment for the standards, policies and procedures set forth in modern society.

Is that better for you?

To me it seems that you would rather complain about me, than the people who knowing violate the membership requirements of the group. Why is this so
...Show more

I know that reality often has nothing to do with an internet '"debate," but I'll pretend that you actually want to be accurate, but just failed to do your homework.

I have had an email exchange with the CPS folks, in which they make it clear that they don't care whether you're a "professional" or not, only that you own the required equipment.

No "fraud" involved, if I want to join and I'm not a "professional" (whatever you may think that is).

Go ahead and argue with that, now.

Sheesh....




Feb 13, 2013 at 01:25 AM
abraxsis
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Did anyone ever consider the context of the word Professional can also be applied to Canon and not the individual signing up?

Canon is a manufacturing company who is offering Professional Services to people that would have to go elsewhere to receive, ie. repair, CLA, realignments, etc.



Feb 13, 2013 at 01:34 AM
RobertLynn
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


StarNut wrote:
I know that reality often has nothing to do with an internet '"debate," but I'll pretend that you actually want to be accurate, but just failed to do your homework.

I have had an email exchange with the CPS folks, in which they make it clear that they don't care whether you're a "professional" or not, only that you own the required equipment.

No "fraud" involved, if I want to join and I'm not a "professional" (whatever you may think that is).

Go ahead and argue with that, now.

Sheesh....



I enjoy your reply. It basically states that I'm a liar, and that you have the proof that I am.
However...it's been posted here what the requirements are, directly from the CPS website. What they do administratively, and what they post publicly are two different things.

If the website states so, how isn't it? Sure, you've circumvented the website's requirements and went above and beyond to get the OK to go ahead (see how I didn't call you a liar, or suggest that "you didn't do your homework?") that just shows that you've been given the go ahead. Not that it's not their policy that they publicly state on their website. At that point, (if we are arguing just to argue) we are both right. You, because you were given the okay. I, because I read the website.

As I stated several times...if you can sign up...and they don't question it, by all means. It seems that it's an honor system and the onus of responsibility rests upon the person signing up. If someone is willing to (not in your case because you've been given the go ahead) sign up...even if the site says otherwise, and they didn't ask (even though I don't agree with Canon putting one thing on their site and then suggesting another in an e-mail. Why not remove all ambiguity and just make it a pay to get in free-for-all?) then they entered into a program they had no business in.

As for my definition of a professional, it depends on the context of how it is used. If you are a photographer, you can have all of the gear and all of the know how or more than the "pros" do. In my mind, a professional photographer is one who is a business that pays the requisite taxes/fees/whatever, and along with that comes all of the other good stuff (ethical responsibility to do the best you can for your clients, et cetera).

In terms of fighting, I think a professional fighter is one who is licensed by a state board. Ironically enough, you know what distinctions are made for pro/ammy fighters? A pro gets paid, and in most states fights under different rule sets (no head gear, things like that). An ammy doesn't get paid, and in a lot of states must wear either heavier gloves, or head gear et cetera. What's the main difference? Money.



Feb 13, 2013 at 01:44 AM
Micky Bill
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Canon used to care who joined CPS but then realized it's a pretty good little profit center. Get 10,000 people to spend $xxx give some swag and most will only ever use the service to for a cleaning (which takes maybe 10 minutes?)

You all realize that just like Amex, Canon has another non-publicized level that you can't pay to get into, you are invited... now that is really "elite"...




Feb 13, 2013 at 02:52 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



StarNut
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
I enjoy your reply. It basically states that I'm a liar, and that you have the proof that I am.
However...it's been posted here what the requirements are, directly from the CPS website. What they do administratively, and what they post publicly are two different things.

If the website states so, how isn't it? Sure, you've circumvented the website's requirements and went above and beyond to get the OK to go ahead (see how I didn't call you a liar, or suggest that "you didn't do your homework?") that just shows that you've been given the go ahead. Not that it's not
...Show more

Wow, you're pretty hard core. Not a "liar," I think, but there certainly are other pejorative terms that could be applied. When I made my post, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt (as I stated) that you didn't know that Canon itself states that there is no such requirement. It's now clear that, in your zeal to be somehow "superior" to mere enthusiasts, you simply don't care what Canon says. Nice job!

In the real world, asking Canon if one is required to be a "professional" (whatever that may be), and being told that there is no such requirement, means, well, that one is not required to be a "professional" (whatever that means).

No "circumvention."

No "fraud."

Just a very simple process--ask.

Gee, what a concept. You should try it!



Feb 13, 2013 at 03:19 AM
abraxsis
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
It's simple.
There's a bunch of jackasses who want entitlements that are aimed at working pros.


Could someone explain something to me because I must be as dense as a brick. But how is something that requires you to have purchased THOUSANDS of dollars worth of gear and then pay an ADDITIONAL 500.00/year an "entitlement?"



Feb 13, 2013 at 03:44 AM
Mike Pearson
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


UgashikBob -

To condense all the discussion into an answer to your question:

1. There are no provisions for CPS membership for a hobbyist/nonprofessional who meets the platinum level equipment requirements.

2. The general consensus here is that if you ignore the “professional” requirement you can still sign up and no one will be the wiser.

3. If you want to be totally up front, then one poster says that if you contact CPS and ask if they will let you join even though you are not a professional they will say OK.

4. If you don’t get their OK to ignore the “professional” requirement and they find out and decide to push the issue your downside for misrepresentation is probably limited to their giving you your membership fee back, charging you for any discounts from their normal charges for services you received and charging you the market value of any membership gifts you received. It is likely they don’t want to waste money on the matter and your actual downside would just be loss of continuing membership.



Feb 13, 2013 at 05:42 AM
mcbane
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


The requirements were in fact stated. You must be self employed and be involved in photography. My plumber qualifies because he is self employed and has a camera in his cell phone.

And those terms really dont restrict what Canon does. No part of the terms states that Canon wont sell and equal (or better) level of service to somebody else. Perhaps Canon just needs to introduce a new CHS, Canon Hobbyist Service, that promises faster turnaround than CPS. Of course they would need to carefully patrol for entitled pros trying to sneak in as well heeled hobbyists.

BTW: A few posts back someone said "It's simple. I've already wasted more time on this than I should've. I'm out." A true professional would abide by that.



Feb 13, 2013 at 07:08 AM
Paul Mo
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
There's a bunch of jackasses who want entitlements that are aimed at working pros.


Like it or not there's a bunch of jackasses working as pros too. Think about that. Think about the myriad different types of so-called 'pro' photographers.



Feb 13, 2013 at 08:26 AM
RobertLynn
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


StarNut wrote:
Wow, you're pretty hard core. Not a "liar," I think, but there certainly are other pejorative terms that could be applied. When I made my post, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt (as I stated) that you didn't know that Canon itself states that there is no such requirement. It's now clear that, in your zeal to be somehow "superior" to mere enthusiasts, you simply don't care what Canon says. Nice job!

In the real world, asking Canon if one is required to be a "professional" (whatever that may be), and being told that there is no such
...Show more

At no point in the day do I feel "superior" to a hobbyist.
There is no zeal to appear so. There is no desire to suggest so.
I meet the requirements (that you don't say exist), therefore I sign up.
You say that you emailed. That's fine, I at no point believe that you didn't email. I also at no point disbelieve that they told you to sign up. It's well documented that canon usa has a professional program, that they have been allowing non-professionals to sign up in.

I think that it is funny that you are trying to turn everything around on me, as if I'm the bad guy. Look, I meet the requirements, I'm a self employed full-time photographer. If they asked for tear sheets, front pages, whatever, I could provide them. I didn't have to email and ask, I just did. Because, by THEIR given terms on the website, I qualify.

Another comparison perhaps?

Let us say that you belong to a local club. Doesn't matter, but a members only club.
Is an opinion that a non-member must be a member to be in, what makes one superior?

I receive a small discount on some goods at some retailers because I'm also a college student. Should non-students enjoy my discount?

AARP members receive senior discounts at various retailers. Are they acting as though they are better than everyone else, because they met a requirement?

If canon emailed you and said to sign up, go right ahead! Don't let me stop you!
Just because I run a business and someone else doesn't, no I'm not "better", I'm not "superior", I am just a business owner, which they are not. It's not condescending. It's not insults. It's not over zealous elitism. It's just a fact.

I am going by the information canon lists on their site. Not an email in your inbox.




Feb 13, 2013 at 12:38 PM
RobertLynn
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Paul Mo wrote:
Like it or not there's a bunch of jackasses working as pros too. Think about that. Think about the myriad different types of so-called 'pro' photographers.

I don't disagree. That's not the discussion though. I've met many hobbyists or enthusiasts that are excellent photographers and have probably a better business sense of some pros.



Feb 13, 2013 at 12:40 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


CPS Canada is geared ( ) towards providing certain benefits to people who own pro gear.
The more pro gear you own, the better they like you. Why would that be ? Perhaps because Canon's business is to sell gear. The more pro gear they sell, the more money they make. Businesses with any smarts whatsoever treat their best customers in special little ways. It's kind of a volume discount. In the end, Canon really doesn't care much what I do with my gears, whether I just store them in a curio, or shoot Bar Mitzvas for money. As long as I keep buying a lot of their pro gear, I am good and well liked, and I get a few little perks from them as a business inducement.



Feb 13, 2013 at 01:31 PM
Paul Mo
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
I don't disagree. That's not the discussion though. I've met many hobbyists or enthusiasts that are excellent photographers and have probably a better business sense of some pros.


So those crap professionals - 1980s-style stonewash blue background labrador permed family portrait making press photog melee all taking the same pictures of the same guy in a suit at a press conference fuzzy photograph 600% crop paparazzi terrorist assholes - are more entitled to CPS than the excellent 'hobbyists'?



Feb 13, 2013 at 02:01 PM
goosemang
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


solution: put your cat pictures in a blurb book, make it available for sale. bam, business.


Feb 13, 2013 at 02:23 PM
1       2       3      
4
       5       6       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3      
4
       5       6       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password