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Archive 2013 · CPS Eligibility Requirements
  
 
mcbane
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


While this has been an entertaining debate, it might be worth referring to the actual Terms and Conditions of CPS:

"PLATINUM Level Membership ($500 Membership Fee plus 50 Product Points)
Applicant must be a full-time self-employed individual or an employee of a professional imaging business who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images. "

Any self employed individual who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images meets this requirement. In other words, self employed and use a camera. And you will find no part of the Terms and Conditions that promises not to sell an equal level of service to somebody else.



Feb 11, 2013 at 01:05 AM
RobertLynn
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


mcbane wrote:
While this has been an entertaining debate, it might be worth referring to the actual Terms and Conditions of CPS:

"PLATINUM Level Membership ($500 Membership Fee plus 50 Product Points)
Applicant must be a full-time self-employed individual or an employee of a professional imaging business who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images. "

Any self employed individual who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images meets this requirement. In other words, self employed and use a camera. And you will find no part of the Terms and Conditions that promises not to
...Show more

It is in the very terms and conditions you posted.

Yes, any self employed IE professional, that plays a role in the creation of images...

Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Unless cps changed it there was also an addendum that stated you had to earn 51% of your income from photography. This is one I always disagreed with though. I know many photographers who own their own successful businesses but maintain their employment at a different place also...that make a lot more than they do from photography.

I'm not exactly sure why you've chosen to make me out to be a bad guy for playing by the rules.



Feb 11, 2013 at 01:40 PM
jerrykur
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Wahoowa wrote:
I believe that reply by jerrykur should be taken with the post by the OP:

"Are there any provisions for CPS membership for a hobbyist/non professional who meets the platinum level equipment requirements?"


Yes my reply wan meant for the OP and based on the qualifications they stated. Sorry for not being clear.

It is not like it used to be where you sent in tear sheets or some other art and letters to be evaluated. As someone pointed out the current requirements are more of a commitment to Canon gear shown by purchases, and willingness to pay for the extra service.




Feb 11, 2013 at 02:22 PM
mikeinctown
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


They should just call it the Canon Professional Loyalty Program and let anyone who wants to pay the upfront fee to join. If you spend $10,000 on gear, then you should be given some extra perks over those who only purchase a couple items, especially if you are willing to pay to be in the club.


Feb 11, 2013 at 03:00 PM
goosemang
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


love seeing people getting in a twist over this. has the fact that canon doesn't care who joins impacted your service? do you think a company as large as canon hasn't considered the impact that additional non-professionals joining CPS will have? do you think they haven't staffed accordingly?

everybody thinks it should be elite like nikon. meanwhile over on the nikon forum people can't get a friggin' battery door replaced and their AF points don't work. check out that green grass...



Feb 11, 2013 at 03:52 PM
robbymack
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Got a good laugh at this today. If some well to do hobbyist can afford the amount of gear it takes to qualify then so be it. Just because you claim to be a "pro", have a website, maybe even paying clients, and have a bunch of expensive gear doesn't necessarily make you one. Whos to say your work is any more important than the photos of some guys cat? There are plenty of hobbyists who can shoot circles around many a "working pro". And let us all not forget, without the hobbyist consumer subsidizing the photo world with their new rebel every year we'd all be paying a lot more for less.


Feb 11, 2013 at 05:16 PM
veroman
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


mcbane wrote:
The word "professional" is just a marketing term and we see it applied to lots of products and services. Fortunately, it looks like Canon is trying to be like most other vendors and is providing an equitable level of service to people who have paid similar amounts for the same products and services. Professionals need to try to shake off their sense of entitlement. There is no reason why, when why you pay the same $ for gear and service as everyone else, that you should be entitled to a higher level of service. The shmucks of the world are
...Show more

The word "professional" isn't "just" a marketing term. In fact, it isn't a marketing term at all. It has far greater depth and meaning than that. The fact that it has lost some of its meaning ... or ALL of its meaning according to your post ... is simply a sad commentary on the state of business today and the overall state of client/vendor relationships.

One of the meanings behind the word "professional" is that it communicates very high levels of both experience and excellence. Where the experience and excellence have yet to be attained, the word "professional" can be applied to someone whose behavior, attention to detail, communication skills, etc. demonstrate that he or she is heading in the directions of accumulating experience and is always striving for excellence.

Professionals, by no stretch, need to "shake off their entitlement." If one has truly reached the level of a professional and charges accordingly ... in ANY profession ... they have earned and are entitled to respect, admiration, every penny of their fees and, on occasion, special treatment. Why? Because true professionals are a rare breed and always have been a rare breed. They represent a mere handful of skilled, dedicated and accomplished individuals within any given field. There's an old expression that goes something like, "85% of all things that all people do they do poorly." The rarity of the professional deserves its own recognition.

Schmucks, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen. It's the schmucks who need to need to shake off their sense of entitlement. Schmucks don't care about excellence. Schmucks don't care about developing communication skills. Schmucks don't care about learning from their experiences. This is why they constantly and continually fall by the wayside as time goes by and, more often than not, end up doing work that bears no resemblance whatsoever to their originally chosen field.

By and large, it's the professionals who survive. That's why we honor them in their old age. I ought to know. I'm a professional.

- Steve




Feb 11, 2013 at 05:46 PM
Mr645
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


You do not need to be a professional in order to join CPS. I have a friend who shoots nature and vacation shots for fun. He really enjoys his hobby, but never earned any income from it and has no plans to. But with a 5DII and 5DIII plus a drool worthy collection of glass (24 F1.4, 50mm F1.0,85mm F1.2, 24-70 F2.8, 70-200 F2.8, 200mm F1.8, 300mm F2.8) and probably more, CPS never questioned him while accepting his $100 for Gold member ship


Feb 11, 2013 at 07:01 PM
goosemang
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


how about this:

a fine art photographer is looking to make a living from his art. he currently has no clients, and is starting from scratch. he holds another job in order to pay the bills. should he be allowed to join CPS, or should he have to establish a certain level of income from his artwork before he is allowed to join?



Feb 11, 2013 at 07:47 PM
ggreene
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


goosemang wrote:
love seeing people getting in a twist over this. has the fact that canon doesn't care who joins impacted your service? do you think a company as large as canon hasn't considered the impact that additional non-professionals joining CPS will have? do you think they haven't staffed accordingly?


As much as I like the original intent of CPS being just for pro's and requiring more proof to qualify, this is the bottom line. So long as pro's aren't complaining about turnaround times it seems Canon has a handle on the resources needed to add other people.



Feb 11, 2013 at 08:48 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



goosemang
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


ggreene wrote:
As much as I like the original intent of CPS being just for pro's and requiring more proof to qualify, this is the bottom line. So long as pro's aren't complaining about turnaround times it seems Canon has a handle on the resources needed to add other people.


right. it's marketing. expand CPS and let every cat-picture-taking-1DX-owner feel extra special for an extra couple hundred bucks a year.

they'll even throw in a free lapel pin!

last i checked most people were pretty happy with canon's service. except for that guy whose camera they lost



Feb 11, 2013 at 09:18 PM
goosemang
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


the thing about it being open to everyone is this:

PRO's will pay for the more advanced memberships with better benefits.

average joe's who have enough "points" to qualify will just take the free membership because they generally have no need for a platinum subscription. they just want the love. it should be noted the free membership gives you, uh, well, nothing. except that lapel pin. you're gonna get that damned lapel pin! probably won't interfere with many businesses getting their gear serviced.



Feb 11, 2013 at 09:22 PM
mcbane
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


"This is why they constantly and continually fall by the wayside as time goes by and, more often than not, end up doing work that bears no resemblance whatsoever to their originally chosen field."

The finely developed communication skills appear to have schmeared quite a few accomplished photographers as schmucks, including Ansel Adams. A look at any proposed list of the world's most influential photographers reveals that many of these individuals really dont measure up to the desired CPS membership standard, since they began their careers as something other than for-pay photographers.



Feb 11, 2013 at 09:54 PM
veroman
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


mcbane wrote:
... A look at any proposed list of the world's most influential photographers reveals that many of these individuals really dont measure up to the desired CPS membership standard, since they began their careers as something other than for-pay photographers.


Didn't we all? The idea isn't a matter of how the Ansel Adams' of this world started out. It's how they ended up. And they certainly didn't end up as schmucks ... because they didn't start out as schmucks, no matter what that first and second or even third job was. They were always interested in excellence.

- Steve



Feb 11, 2013 at 11:31 PM
RobertLynn
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


Mr645 wrote:
You do not need to be a professional in order to join CPS. I have a friend who shoots nature and vacation shots for fun. He really enjoys his hobby, but never earned any income from it and has no plans to. But with a 5DII and 5DIII plus a drool worthy collection of glass (24 F1.4, 50mm F1.0,85mm F1.2, 24-70 F2.8, 70-200 F2.8, 200mm F1.8, 300mm F2.8) and probably more, CPS never questioned him while accepting his $100 for Gold member ship



You are, according to their plan, required to be a pro. The flaw is, they don't check up on it and if you pay the money well then you paid the money. Just because he has the gear shouldn't make him eligible.

As I've said multiple times, if they aren't checking then sure, sign up. Canon has taken a professional program and turned it into a "members club" of who has the amount of gear to get there or not.

robbymack wrote:
Got a good laugh at this today. If some well to do hobbyist can afford the amount of gear it takes to qualify then so be it. Just because you claim to be a "pro", have a website, maybe even paying clients, and have a bunch of expensive gear doesn't necessarily make you one. Whos to say your work is any more important than the photos of some guys cat? There are plenty of hobbyists who can shoot circles around many a "working pro". And let us all not forget, without the hobbyist consumer subsidizing the photo world with their
...Show more
Why should he benefit from the added perks? He's not a pro (why is this so hard to get your head around). Why are my photographs more important (or any pro's photographs for that matter)...let's see, because I earn a living with mine. Some measurebator that is putting up photographs of his cat or dog on FM, shot in his living room at ISO 738957392857302857 just to see if he has a good copy...that's not earning him a living. That's why there's a difference. Shooting for me =food in my belly, a roof over my head and a future for my son.
Shooting for the guy taking photos of his cat=a guy not getting paid for that

This isn't about if a pro is better than a hobbyist. No one has made such a suggestion. This is about a hobbyist signing up for a program that he/she shouldn't be eligible for. That's what it's about.

This also isn't about the "hobbyist consumer subsidzing the photo world". This is purely about the ethics of someone who isn't a pro, taking away from someone who is.
goosemang wrote:
love seeing people getting in a twist over this. has the fact that canon doesn't care who joins impacted your service? do you think a company as large as canon hasn't considered the impact that additional non-professionals joining CPS will have? do you think they haven't staffed accordingly?

everybody thinks it should be elite like nikon. meanwhile over on the nikon forum people can't get a friggin' battery door replaced and their AF points don't work. check out that green grass...


If you read what I wrote, you would've seen that it hasn't impacted me yet...you cannot deny the possibility exists. To do so shows ignorance of the situation.

I didn't say it needed to be like Nikon. It's a program geared towards PROFESSIONALS. One would assume then...by the standards set forth in the program...that you need to be professional to join!

Think about this, you have to meet certain requirements to get on welfare. According to your logic, why should anyone get their panties in a twist?

The way CPS is currently set up, you can just register your products (even if you don't own them) on their site. By your logic, people entering in numbers they don't have shouldn't be a big deal anyway.

What you fail to see is, there's rules in life. Some rules are enforced. Other rules aren't. You're expected though as an upright, moral and ethical human being to follow those rules. The fact that you're arguing against following the rules set forth just shows what kind of people do this.

It isn't about "it's not big deal", it's not about "the consumer market",it's not about "the hobbyist that is better than the pro" it's about a bunch of people who aren't professionals claiming to be professionals so they can receive perks that they shouldn't damn well have.



Feb 12, 2013 at 12:04 AM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · CPS Eligibility Requirements



goosemang wrote:
...it's about a bunch of people who aren't professionals claiming to be professionals so they can receive perks that they shouldn't damn well have.



And what shouldn't they have?

Here we have 'pros' wanting exclusivity.

Here we have 'pros' who couldn't care less.

Here we have hobbyists playing by Canon's rules, and being vilified for doing so.

Here we have the worst kind - hobbyists (the inexperienced, the stupid) wanting to adopt a 'pro' swagger and defend 'pro' rights because they are pretentious gits.

What did I miss?



Feb 12, 2013 at 01:17 AM
curious80
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


RobertLynn wrote:
You are, according to their plan, required to be a pro. The flaw is, they don't check up on it and if you pay the money well then you paid the money. Just because he has the gear shouldn't make him eligible.

As I've said multiple times, if they aren't checking then sure, sign up. Canon has taken a professional program and turned it into a "members club" of who has the amount of gear to get there or not.

Why should he benefit from the added perks? He's not a pro (why is this so hard to get your head
...Show more

I understand the notion about professionals needing to have their equipment back in time because they depend on it to earn money, whereas hobbyists generally don't have such constraints. However you come off as arrogant and elitist by repeatedly referring to "non-pros" as bunch of people taking pictures of their cats. In reality there are a large number of "pros" who are mediocre photographers at best and there are so many non-pros here on these forums who put far more effort into their photography and display a much higher quality creative work than such pros. So lets not confuse being "pro" with quality and value of the photographic work.

Also it is not quite true that "pros" are the only ones needing quick turn around. Imagine I have a 10 day photographic trip planned or I am leaving for a safari that I have spent thousands of dollars on and have planned for months, or even that its my daughters university graduation in a couple of days. And I find out that my camera broke. Well I don't care whether I earn money from it or not but for me having my camera back in time is as important as any other person even if that other person happens to be President's official photographer or whatever. At the end of the day I imagine that only those people will pay for the CPS membership who are serious enough in their photographic pursuits. For example I would likely never try to get CPS membership because I really don't do any time critical photographic work.

At the end of the day most non-pros are not going to put their gear through as much abuse as pros do and are much less likely to have to send in their gear for repairs. So you have all these extra people paying into the program who rarely use it. At the end of the day this should actually help the pros.



Feb 12, 2013 at 02:07 AM
ggreene
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


curious80 wrote:
Also it is not quite true that "pros" are the only ones needing quick turn around. Imagine I have a 10 day photographic trip planned or I am leaving for a safari that I have spent thousands of dollars on and have planned for months, or even that its my daughters university graduation in a couple of days. And I find out that my camera broke. Well I don't care whether I earn money from it or not but for me having my camera back in time is as important as any other person...


Yeah but if you don't get photos of those two events does that affect your ability to pay your mortgage or your medical insurance premium? I don't really care who signs up for CPS but I can understand working pro's concerns over an influx of non-pro's. They have a lot more "need" for quick turnaround then others who simply "want" it.



Feb 12, 2013 at 03:06 AM
rrxjon
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


35 years running my own business(es) 30+ behind a camera, including a decade+ running my own darkroom
(now practically a museum & so laden with negs that one of my storage shelves collapsed last year)
and frankly, not only do i not care, it's None of My Business who, why, or how someone finds their way to CPS. Repairs are a fact of life (and a service business in fact) & IMO it's the last place to look for a meritocracy.



Feb 12, 2013 at 03:10 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · CPS Eligibility Requirements


I'm glad Canon finally relaxed their criteria for CPS membership. They were for quite a while behind the times.

When I joined in the late 80s, on through the mid-90s when I declined to renew, the CPS membership was free and only available to working pros. Part of the annual renewal application process was to submit a certain number of tear sheets. Some may no longer be familiar with these -- actual printed pages of editorial or advertisements with your byline attached. Even back then, I did most of my work direct for clients and not agencies, so a lot was in the form of prints or slides for scans for brochures and such, not publications or litho printed ads. I did manage to make the quota each year, but it became more difficult as the world digitized. My work shifted to websites and other electronic use, with no tear sheets or printed brochures, and hence the annual renewal became a burden.

When I checked again in the 2000s, I found the new system based on gear with an application stating pro work and background, and ability to cite your website for reference. That was great, even if it now cost $100 for Gold membership. Since then, I've maintained a high CPS gear score (maxing out around 120 points), and feel that is what they really should be interested in: that I pay the freight and that I support Canon gear. I don't mind people being members with less gear, that's not the point. Their membership helps fund my need to have CPS service available to me. I'm no snob, as long as I get what I want!

Complaining about today's membership requirements and benefits without comparing it to the older system might seem diluted or less "professional", but I see Canon's point in promoting professional gear ownership and use.



Feb 12, 2013 at 03:19 AM
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