Sigh, back to Canon...

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p.2 #1 · Sigh, back to Canon...

D. Diggler wrote:
form wrote:

Backlit subjects are very common for me because I often shoot into the light or have windows/etc. as backgrounds, and the D800 very consistently locks onto the backlit edge (which is the side of the person's head) and gives me backfocused images in those situations

Did you ever do a test to find out the actual size and location of the 800's focus sensor? It can be different from the little box you are looking at through the viewfinder when taking the shot.
That you say the 800 consistently catches the backlight on the side of the person's head suggests to me that you were letting a portion of the focus sensor wander off the face. If the focus sensor was completely on the face, the sensor could not pick up what's outside the face.
As I recall, I had asked you previously if you wanted to know a method for finding the actual size and location of the sensor but you never got back to me.

I never did the test, but I believe I can show examples of a few specific instances where the subject was centered in the frame, there was a pretty large area of only the person's face around the center focus point, the camera was in AF-S (or AF-C single point), I re-took the shot several times, and it still consistently found the backlit edge and backfocused my target subject.

The thing is, if an autofocus system is really quirky for me to use and I have to keep thinking about how to make it work properly in a bunch of situations, then it isn't practical for me to use because I am too busy thinking about other things to be able to worry about putting the focus point exactly right and why it might not work here and there and etc...and shots will frequently be misfocused because my technique wasn't perfectly in-tune with the quirky demands of the focus system. The 5d2s I own aren't so quirky, they are just a little temperamental and limited in several aspects...like basically not trustworthy much on the outer points and only giving an average keeper rate for moving subjects.

Edited on Feb 08, 2013 at 03:36 PM · View previous versions

Feb 08, 2013 at 03:33 PM

cineski
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p.2 #2 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I thought about switching to Nikon because I'm just dead sick of Canon's etiquette with their own paying photographers. A buddy of mine is a Nikon shooter and got the D800. I got to play with it. Focus SUCKED where my 5D3 would snap to accurate focus. He ended up selling it and is sticking with Nikon's 1 series equivalent. D800 in real world wedding shooting = shrug. Really wish we could get that sensor, though.

Feb 08, 2013 at 03:34 PM

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p.2 #3 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I don't like Canon's overpriced new products or how much they truncate their less-than-1d cameras, but I do like their factory service that asks no questions and fixes and returns my stuff within a week of being sent in...and I like their lenses (except 16-35 which has crappy IQ, but I'm not huge on ultrawide use anyway).

...And I don't like the pattern noise on their sensors or the wasted dynamic range potential at low ISOs...but maybe in another 30 years they'll catch up with Sony in that field and then all will be well. And besides as a "professional photographer" I shouldn't NEED that extra dynamic range anyway since all environments have a narrow enough dynamic range that the camera sensor should be easily able to cover the darkest through the lightest areas...hmm, or...not...

But on the other hand, I didn't like how D800 highlights have a specific way of blowing that leaves strong solid tints to the recovered highlights (usually blue with my WB) like on wedding dresses and white suits. However, that was avoidable by the underexposure that the D800 was so very good at handling with minimal noise.

Sony sensor in Canon camera, Sony sensor in Canon cameras...and I swear I'll be much happier about the sensor...then I just need reliable autofocus at a price under $3000 (preferably with other useful upgrades over the 5d2 as well)...I'll probably buy the 5d3 when it drops more in price, but god it's just way too much right now.

Feb 08, 2013 at 03:38 PM

trevanian
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p.2 #4 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I'm really glad you switched back.

Feb 08, 2013 at 03:53 PM

form
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p.2 #5 · Sigh, back to Canon...

trevanian wrote:
I'm really glad you switched back.

I know you (and everyone else) don't really care what I do, and I could jump off a cliff and nobody here would have even the slightest twinge of emotion at the news. But I still share anyway...

Feb 08, 2013 at 03:55 PM

trevanian
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p.2 #6 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I think you dwell on things too much and should make faster decisions, so in the long run this is a good thing for you.

Feb 08, 2013 at 04:12 PM

James R
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p.2 #7 · Sigh, back to Canon...

trevanian wrote:
I'm really glad you switched back.

Well you guys won the battle over Form. Congratulations!

Feb 08, 2013 at 04:15 PM

Jeff Simpson
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p.2 #8 · Sigh, back to Canon...

you can do amazing work with a 5d classic so anyone jumping ship because they are unhappy is silly. upgrading within the ecosystem is one thing, but going to canon->nikon or vice-versa shows that you haven't learned to use your current gear properly.

Feb 08, 2013 at 04:23 PM

deepbluejh
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p.2 #9 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I could write a myriad of witty, sarcastic, snarky remarks here, but I won't. Instead I'll give you an honest answer that is short and to the point.

The gear is not the source of your problems.

Feb 08, 2013 at 06:24 PM

Dave_EP
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p.2 #10 · Sigh, back to Canon...

Inku Yo wrote:
That animation is weird. It's as if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence... and when the guy goes over to that side, the other side is greener. Weird.

Err... that's the point.

Feb 08, 2013 at 08:05 PM

friscoron
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p.2 #11 · Sigh, back to Canon...

deepbluejh wrote:
I could write a myriad of witty, sarcastic, snarky remarks here, but I won't. Instead I'll give you an honest answer that is short and to the point.

The gear is not the source of your problems.

I thought this was worthy of repeating.

Feb 08, 2013 at 09:20 PM

dhp_sf
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p.2 #12 · Sigh, back to Canon...

form wrote:
trevanian wrote:
I'm really glad you switched back.

I know you (and everyone else) don't really care what I do, and I could jump off a cliff and nobody here would have even the slightest twinge of emotion at the news. But I still share anyway...

For what it's worth, I don't know you, but I would find it saddening to learn that you jumped off a cliff. No one deserves to be that unhappy with life.

Feb 08, 2013 at 09:21 PM

jneilosu
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p.2 #13 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I have a lot of friends that don't know 1/100 of the technical bullshit you spouted off above. And they all make absolutely killer images. And most of them still shoot 5DII's with center focus only.

Go get an engineering degree. You'll be happier. We'll all be happier.

(It took me almost 2 years of reading your posts to finally say something, so I really don't feel I'm overreacting here).

Feb 08, 2013 at 09:45 PM

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p.2 #14 · Sigh, back to Canon...

jneilosu wrote:
I have a lot of friends that don't know 1/100 of the technical bullshit you spouted off above. And they all make absolutely killer images. And most of them still shoot 5DII's with center focus only.

Go get an engineering degree. You'll be happier. We'll all be happier.

(It took me almost 2 years of reading your posts to finally say something, so I really don't feel I'm overreacting here).

.....Thanks for reading!

Feb 08, 2013 at 09:59 PM

joelconner
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p.2 #15 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I did not know that anyone ever switched from Nikon to Canon...it always seen like moving to Nikon is an "enlightened" move

Feb 08, 2013 at 10:05 PM

cordellwillis
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p.2 #16 · Sigh, back to Canon...

Feb 08, 2013 at 10:36 PM

cordellwillis
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p.2 #17 · Sigh, back to Canon...

Dave_EP wrote:
Inku Yo wrote:
That animation is weird. It's as if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence... and when the guy goes over to that side, the other side is greener. Weird.

Err... that's the point.

Dave are you being sarcastic about Inku's sarcasm?

Feb 08, 2013 at 10:38 PM

DavidCZ
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p.2 #18 · Sigh, back to Canon...

form wrote:
Yep I know. I will probably end up with at least one 5d3, but I am still waiting until the price comes down to sub-obscenity.

A particularly dissatisfying situation with the Nikon comes to mind: One day I was second shooting in December, and we were indoors in, say, ISO3200 f/1.8 1/100 sec lighting on average. I was shooting with Canon 5d2 + 85L and Nikon D800 + 35 f/1.4g, neither one had a flash mounted...and the D800 kept misfocusing, over and over and over...while the Canon kept nailing focus over and over...at like f/1.4ish on both counts. And as I was reviewing the Nikon images on the LCD, I was seeing all the OOF images...and I decided, **** this, I'm putting away the Nikon and going with 35L and 85L...and it was like old times, I knew the behaviors of the lenses and they were pretty accurate for me. And if I really wanted a critically in focus shot and could stand still for a minute, I turned on live view for focus and it was quick and relatively responsive as always...

....But the moral to that story is that the D800 was failing me when the 5d2s were not, and this was part of the de-moralization of my Nikon experience.

That's totally weird.

My experience is that in very dark situations, even Canon's 5D III can not focus well. It hunts like crazy with 35mm or whatever lens you throw into it. But D700 nails it pretty much each time easily.
The reason is that Nikon AF illumination light helps a lot. Canon's AF assistant is useless in extreme dark conditions.

I heard that D800 AF is even better than D700.

Did you accidentally switch the D800 servo-mode to "C" mode?

Feb 08, 2013 at 11:28 PM

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p.2 #19 · Sigh, back to Canon...

I used AF-C and AF-S mode, especially during one or two weddings where the activities were basically not that interesting for a time (e.g. I had captured many of the goings-on and most important people during an LDS receiving line) and I had a few free moments to experiment with different settings. I would point 35 or 85 at various subjects of 10-20 feet distance and see how many shots I could get in focus with AF-S, AF-C 1 point and AF-C 9 point. I didn't notice much difference between them, one setting (can't remember which now) seemed to do marginally better but it definitely wasn't close to 100%. Environment was probably about 1/160 @ ISO1600-3200 @ f/1.8ish (I'm shaky so 1/160 is about a minimum safe setting for me at 85mm).

Then second shooting during a different reception slow time (the time when I was getting so many OOF images with D800 that I put it away), I alternated between AF-S and AF-C again to try to see if I got better results with one or the other. Don't get me wrong, I reviewed the photos today and found that the in-focus rate wasn't as bad as I thought (seemed more OOF on the LCD than on my monitor), but there were plenty of unexplained misfocuses that were a bit front or back focused without any pattern I could see.

Feb 08, 2013 at 11:53 PM

M Lucca
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p.2 #20 · Sigh, back to Canon...

Nailing focus (first to go Beep!) <> focus accuracy. Situational differences, compound by lens choice and technique invalidates your experience to those of Form.

Check out that review comparison on the 1dx and d4 focus performance.

http://xerodigital.ca/canon-1dx-nikon-d4-compare-wedding-photographers/

Feb 08, 2013 at 11:57 PM

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