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Edwin Ho Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · Voigtlander R2M While I own an M9, I am considering a film RF camera. Is there anyone who has experience and own a RM2. How would this camera compares with the more expensive Leica M range finder - M6 TTL. I will be using a mix of Leica and VC lenses and the choice of the R2M is simply because it is affordable and I do appreciate that is is manual. Comments and advice are very welcome, thank you. Feb 04, 2013 at 02:00 PM

mawz Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · Voigtlander R2M Cross-posted from your other thread: I've shot extensively with the R, which is essentially an R2M with an LTM mount and a lighter build. Nice camera, nice finder. Beware of focus accuracy with faster/longer lenses, it will do fine with a 50/1.4 but you likely will have issues with the 75/1.8 or a 50/1.1 as it just doesn't have enough RF baseline to handle fast & long (the R and R2's share the same finder and RF system, including baseline). I had issues with the 85/2 I had, just could not nail focus at apertures larger than f3.5 or so. Feb 04, 2013 at 02:02 PM

Edwin Ho Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #3 · Voigtlander R2M mawz wrote: Cross-posted from your other thread: I had issues with the 85/2 I had, just could not nail focus at apertures larger than f3.5 or so. Wow, this is pretty serious . Feb 04, 2013 at 02:10 PM

ISO1600 Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #4 · Voigtlander R2M The bessas are the best current production film RF for the money. Think about that statement for a minute. The only other cameras in the category (that I can think of) are the Leicas ($$$$$) and the Ikon (2.5x price of Bessa?)... Honestly, the build and user experience, IMO, is crap- compared to the Ikon or M. Using a M and a Bessa side-by-side is nauseating. NOW- on the positive side.... the R2M has a quite good finder. Easy modern loading method. That is about all the positive I can think of. haha! The RF mechanism on these cameras is pretty fragile, it'll get bent out of shape easily. The camera feels like it's made out of recycled soup cans. Strap lugs are in the wrong place. I'd say get an old/user M2 or M4, and either learn to read the light (sunny 16, etc) or get a cheap handheld meter. M2's are so so wonderful, it is a better camera in every way. Factor ~$600 for a chrome M2, ~$1.25 for a Coke, and the smile is free. Feb 04, 2013 at 03:08 PM

rscheffler Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #5 · Voigtlander R2M A friend of mine sells Zeiss and still has a few Ikons in stock (aren't they now discontinued?). I had a look through the viewfinder of one - my first time. All I can say is - wow. I wish the M9's view was that big and clear. Other than that, the camera felt kind of boxy and a bit light for the size. The M2 or M4 option sounds logical. Feb 04, 2013 at 11:32 PM

mawz Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · Voigtlander R2M Edwin Ho wrote: mawz wrote: Cross-posted from your other thread: I had issues with the 85/2 I had, just could not nail focus at apertures larger than f3.5 or so. Wow, this is pretty serious . The Bessa's were designed with the original LTM CV lenses in mind, so they had no need to be able to focus anything faster than a 50/1.5, 75/2.5 or 90/3.5. For fast/long lenses you want an M or a Zeiss Ikon, which have much longer RF baselines and therefore can accurately focus long/fast lenses. RF's are somewhat the opposite of SLR's in terms of focusing accuracy, the longer or faster the lens, the more difficult for an RF to focus with it for a given baseline. Feb 05, 2013 at 12:37 AM

ISO1600 Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #7 · Voigtlander R2M re: Ikon Oh yeah, i think they are discontinued. Ikons have been going for $750-$1100 on RFF the past few months. Big range, seems to be totally irrellevant of the condition or included accessories too. Anyways- yes, the Ikon has an amazing finder. It has a super long baselength, so it can accurately focus just about any lens you throw at it. The only "modern" 35mm RF with a more accurate finder is anything with the M3 finder in it. The Ikon has a good meter, a very nice AE Lock implementation, and as previously mentioned, an amazing finder. I really miss that finder hahaha! But- it is a die-cast aluminum frame, IIRC, and is VERY light. Does not have the best feel. A real Leica (M2, M3, M4, old MP) would be the most enjoyable experience. Once they started putting zinc and meters in the M cameras, the experience and the camera changed. Get a 30+ year old brass M with brass gears and a shutter speed dial that is the right size and that turns the right direction. If you NEED a meter, get a "classic" M6, not the TTL. My buddy Nate (TWOK, MisterE, NateVenture- all his online/photo forum alias') has owned just about every M camera imagineable, and IIRC, his most enjoyable cameras were the BP (black paint) M2/M4. They just have a perfect look and feel to them. The problem(s) you'll encounter with an older M (2/3/4) are commonly: 1) finder/patch haze or misalignment 2) shutter speeds off, damaged curtains 3) questionable history? Even with those potentially large problems, I would still ONLY reccomend a classic M for a film RF. The user experience is just SO much better than the other cameras (Bessa, Ikon). The only thing that has come close, for me, was a Canon P (LTM), which can be had for very cheap. Feb 05, 2013 at 01:40 PM

mawz Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #8 · Voigtlander R2M I should note that personally I find the Bessa R and derived cameras (All Bessa's and the Ikon) to be a better user experience than the M's due to the more refined ergonomics, especially the FAR superior film loading and metering setup which was actually designed rather than added onto a 30 year old design. But the M's have a massive tactile advantage, they just feel better. If you're looking for the classic RF experience, buy an M, no question. If you want a great shooting camera that happens to be an RF, or are used to modern MF SLR's (circa 75-90) then you'll probably be more comfortable with the Bessa's or Ikon. Feb 05, 2013 at 01:54 PM

ISO1600 Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #9 · Voigtlander R2M I think regardless of the modernizations that the Bessas have, the M's are both a better RF experience, and a better photography experience. Both emotionally and technically. Even with the fiddly bottom-loading. Feb 05, 2013 at 02:12 PM

dasrocket Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · Voigtlander R2M mawz wrote: ...For fast/long lenses you want an M or a Zeiss Ikon, which have much longer RF baselines and therefore can accurately focus long/fast lenses... On the subject of short RF bases, My Epson R-D1 was similar as it was based on a Bessa. I had issues with focusing my 50 1.2 Serenar. However, I bought an aftermarket magnifying eyepiece that screwed into the VF rear and it really made a difference with faster glass. I think it was a 1.25x or something.. Feb 05, 2013 at 04:28 PM

mawz Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #11 · Voigtlander R2M dasrocket wrote: mawz wrote: ...For fast/long lenses you want an M or a Zeiss Ikon, which have much longer RF baselines and therefore can accurately focus long/fast lenses... On the subject of short RF bases, My Epson R-D1 was similar as it was based on a Bessa. I had issues with focusing my 50 1.2 Serenar. However, I bought an aftermarket magnifying eyepiece that screwed into the VF rear and it really made a difference with faster glass. I think it was a 1.25x or something.. Note that effective baseline controls focusing accuracy and it is the viewfinder magnification multiplied by the physical baseline. So increasing the viewfinder magnification will indeed improve focusing accuracy on an RF, generally at the cost of visibility of the wider framelines. Feb 06, 2013 at 12:24 AM

mawz Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #12 · Voigtlander R2M ISO1600 wrote: I think regardless of the modernizations that the Bessas have, the M's are both a better RF experience, and a better photography experience. Both emotionally and technically. Even with the fiddly bottom-loading. It's a case of to each his own. I sold my M3 and kept the Bessa R, preferring the latter for its conveniences. I might have made a different decision if it had been an M6 though. Feb 06, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Edwin Ho Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #13 · Voigtlander R2M mawz wrote: ISO1600 wrote: I think regardless of the modernizations that the Bessas have, the M's are both a better RF experience, and a better photography experience. Both emotionally and technically. Even with the fiddly bottom-loading. It's a case of to each his own. I sold my M3 and kept the Bessa R, preferring the latter for its conveniences. I might have made a different decision if it had been an M6 though. Mawz, are you suggesting the difference in user experience is narrower in the M6/Bessa R than M3/Bessar R. And if so why? Feb 06, 2013 at 02:04 PM

ISO1600 Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #14 · Voigtlander R2M M6 has a more comfortable finder magnification for a wider variety of lenses, a meter, and more modern loading than a M3. M3 is a "better" Leica though.... I GREATLY prefer the uncluttered finders of the older M's. I LOVED the simplicity of my M2's. The M2 and M4 are so good to shoot a 35/50 combo. Feb 06, 2013 at 02:55 PM

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