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Archive 2013 · M240 Full Res Samples
  
 
Gary Clennan
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · M240 Full Res Samples


In case anyone is interested, here are some recently posted M240 full res images...

http://the.me/first-full-resolution-leica-m-type-240-jpeg-and-raw-sample-images-is-the-alleged-ccd-advantage-nothing-but-an-urban-myth/



Jan 29, 2013 at 01:03 AM
thrice
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · M240 Full Res Samples


Interesting.
A little disappointed that the writer honestly thinks colour reproduction is only algorithms. Guess he doesn't know what a CFA is.



Jan 29, 2013 at 01:47 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · M240 Full Res Samples


Well, it's still early going... though the M240 SOOC Jpegs posted there feel very waxy. If you look at the balcony shot looking down at the dock, the grass detail is extremely smeared. Open the DNG version of that file in LR and there is a lot more detail there.

It seems Leica has made almost a 180 degree turn in their NR characteristics. The M9 files were virtually free of NR, almost to a fault. These M240 Jpegs seem too strong. But then, as a DNG shooter, not a huge concern.

Maybe the guy had in-camra NR turn on? Or on a higher setting? Lots of possible variables we don't know about.

Kind of wish he'd chosen an ISO lower than 320.. but still, interesting because it's nowhere noise free (a fair amount of luminance granularity in the DNGs when seen in LR at 100%) and at least at lower/base ISO, might not be a huge difference from the M9.

Which kind of confirms my interest in the M240 as being more about the operational improvements than image quality improvements (though cleaner high ISO would be appreciated).



Jan 29, 2013 at 02:18 AM
joe88
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · M240 Full Res Samples


Gary, thanks for the link. Interesting ..


Jan 29, 2013 at 02:20 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · M240 Full Res Samples


Also, if you download the DNGs and open in LR, be aware that some of the files have adjustments applied and all are set to the 2010 process version (I guess relevant if you're using LR4). Change to process 2012 and all files drop a bit in contrast because it looks like 2010 clips both ends somewhat. The bar scene is notable because the stack of cups by the server are blown out in process 2010 but aren't in 2012.


Jan 29, 2013 at 02:41 AM
joe88
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · M240 Full Res Samples


I played with the bar shot file with 2012 process, seems to be out of focus, cant really tell, but the files seem more malleable compared to M9. I think there is improvement but what was reported was better SNR and dynamic range which is what many of us wanted right?

Lets wait for the real samples from Leica.com



Jan 29, 2013 at 02:57 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · M240 Full Res Samples


I agree the focus is not good in the bar scene, but for the purpose of what these files are, it's a user error, not a system error. I was able to pull back the brightness of the oof guy in the red shirt in the foreground of the bar scene with quite pleasingly smooth results, so, definitely in agreement that it looks promising from a DR perspective.



Jan 29, 2013 at 03:08 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · M240 Full Res Samples


Thanks Gary! Interesting.


Jan 29, 2013 at 03:14 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · M240 Full Res Samples


I can't believe people are still talking about CCD vs CMOS. Past vs. future.

Also, didn't Leica say this camera would be out by now? And they're still beta testing? I thought only Red missed deadlines that bad.



Jan 30, 2013 at 11:30 AM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · M240 Full Res Samples


Lee Saxon wrote:
I can't believe people are still talking about CCD vs CMOS. Past vs. future.

Also, didn't Leica say this camera would be out by now? And they're still beta testing? I thought only Red missed deadlines that bad.


Lee,

Leica had initially indicated that the M 240 was to be released sometime in the first quarter of 2013. When I spoke with Leica USA in December when I visited, they indicated that to the best of their knowledge the release date was still on target. When I asked earlier this month when I stopped by, they indicated that they had no further update for the release.

Rich



Jan 30, 2013 at 02:13 PM
 

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Bijltje
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · M240 Full Res Samples


Lee Saxon wrote:
I can't believe people are still talking about CCD vs CMOS. Past vs. future.

Also, didn't Leica say this camera would be out by now? And they're still beta testing? I thought only Red missed deadlines that bad.


Why shouldn't they? A CMOS sensor is used to be able to offer video, live view and an EVF. Not the thinks the traditional M user really wants or needs. All more gimmicks for the customer who sees the M as an mirror-less camera and doesn't give a thing about the rangefinder.

The CCD sensors had some big advantages like great performance on low ISO's.
I think its more than normal many M users want to see the new M CMOS sensor can catch up or even pass that existing M9 CCD sensor, or that all those new features and advanteges like better high ISO performance means we have to live without the M9's low ISO performance.



Jan 30, 2013 at 02:25 PM
Bijltje
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · M240 Full Res Samples


naturephoto1 wrote:
Lee,

Leica had initially indicated that the M 240 was to be released sometime in the first quarter of 2013. When I spoke with Leica USA in December when I visited, they indicated that to the best of their knowledge the release date was still on target. When I asked earlier this month when I stopped by, they indicated that they had no further update for the release.

Rich


My dealer told me at first January, but later changed that to April.



Jan 30, 2013 at 02:26 PM
thedigitalbean
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · M240 Full Res Samples


Bijltje wrote:
Why shouldn't they? A CMOS sensor is used to be able to offer video, live view and an EVF. Not the thinks the traditional M user really wants or needs.


Live view and an EVF will make the new M a powerhouse in compact landscape photography now that critical focus is easily achievable. It will also allow many of those who have abandoned the M due to poor eyesight issues to come back to it.


All more gimmicks for the customer who sees the M as an mirror-less camera and doesn't give a thing about the rangefinder.


Leica rightfully isn't married to the concept that the M must solely remain a tool for myopic luddites. They correctly recognize the places where technology can be used to be important tools for photographers and are bringing those tools to the M to make it a better photographic tool. They are doing NOTHING to take away from the M's rangefinder heritage.

This same gimmick nonsense was spouted all over these forums for every major advancement in DSLRs. People kvetched when Live View was first introduced, deemed it a gimmick from P&S cameras but now the number of professional landscape and architectural photographers that use it for critical focus is amazing. These guys wouldn't give it up.


The CCD sensors had some big advantages like great performance on low ISO's.


Nope, not anymore and hasn't been true for a little while. The Sony EXMOR sensor in the D800 is capable of the same great low ISO performance of something like an IQ medium format back. Real world dynamic range is about the same. Color discrimination is more a function of the CFA than the sensor and even there the D800 stacks up very favorably to most CCD sensors.


I think its more than normal many M users want to see the new M CMOS sensor can catch up or even pass that existing M9 CCD sensor, or that all those new features and advanteges like better high ISO performance means we have to live without the M9's low ISO performance.


The M9's low ISO performance isn't great when compared to most modern cameras. It still produces nicer (nicer in terms of what I would say is enjoyable to process in post) files than the Canon's but both in terms of color discrimination and dynamic range its outclassed by wide margin by the D800 sensor.

I know several M shooters and all are happy that Leica is demonstrating an ability to be innovative, to make better tools for photographers while remaining faithful to the rangefinder heritage.


Edited on Jan 31, 2013 at 08:41 AM · View previous versions



Jan 30, 2013 at 03:17 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · M240 Full Res Samples


It should tell you something that medium format CCDs, with much deeper lightwells to work with, lag well behind the dynamic range and especially low light performance of 35mm CMOS.

Also, absurd power requirements and heat production. Hot pixels on even moderately long exposures. Thumbs down.



Jan 30, 2013 at 11:58 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · M240 Full Res Samples


I don't think the best MFDBs rank well behind the D800, it is all within a stop or so, and several stops above many other current popular cameras.


Jan 31, 2013 at 12:27 AM
charles.K
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · M240 Full Res Samples


Thanks Gary! Very interesting. I used CS6 RAW convertor, latest updates and I really like the rich DNG files. The Jpegs, are no interest yet, as they are limited by the initial in camera settings, and will no doubt change with the final version.

As Ron and Joe have suggested improved DR and the files appear to be quite malleable. I am keen to see high ISO files, and see what are the improvements here. The biggest gain will no doubt, be having as Ron has mentioned are the operational improvements!



Jan 31, 2013 at 02:45 AM
cuonghuutran
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · M240 Full Res Samples


I am moving to M9 from CMOS world because of the clarity and sparkling and yet natural looking color and gradation of M9 photos. Yes, I miss low light performance, live view, long battery life of 5D Mk2 (with spectacular Leica R lenses like 90mm AA or 180mm 2.8 APO or 28-90mm zoom). But M9 is just jaw dropping and makes the move definitely worthwhile. I hope photos from M240 can match or exceed M9 in clarity and sparkling. If not, I am happy to stay with M9. So far the early samples are well ... early samples :-).

Lee Saxon wrote:
It should tell you something that medium format CCDs, with much deeper lightwells to work with, lag well behind the dynamic range and especially low light performance of 35mm CMOS.

Also, absurd power requirements and heat production. Hot pixels on even moderately long exposures. Thumbs down.




Jan 31, 2013 at 03:36 AM
ryankarr
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · M240 Full Res Samples


As a dual Leica/Nikon shooter, I agree with everything thedigitalbean said, and I'm looking forward to adding a new M.


Jan 31, 2013 at 04:38 AM
magiclight
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · M240 Full Res Samples


thedigitalbean, well said!


Jan 31, 2013 at 07:07 AM
snowboarder
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · M240 Full Res Samples


Bijltje wrote:
All more gimmicks for the customer who sees the M as an mirror-less camera and doesn't give a thing about the rangefinder.




that would be me I guess



Jan 31, 2013 at 07:59 AM
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