Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

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Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments,...

igmolinav
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p.1 #1 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Hi,

Leica produced between 1970 and 2009 a 60 mm. f/2.8 macro lens.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/60mm_f/2.8_Macro-Elmarit-R

Zeiss ZE and ZF.2 50 mm. modells have not been so long on the market as
to have different "versions". The ZF became ZF.2 lenses. I think Zeiss also
produced a 60 mm. macro for Contax some time ago.

Whoever wants to use a Leica or Zeiss Contax lens on a DSLR, will have
to Leitax the lens, or use an adapter. The other alternative is to buy (new or used)
a ZE or ZF.2 lens from Zeiss.

The first question I would like to ask, is the following:

Being interested or concerned about the sharpness of the image, (some
lenses deliver, some others don't), were there some better versions of the
Leica 60 mm. than others, regarding sharpness? Sorry to be so concerned
about sharpness. Certain images may "sell" when they are razor sharp ; ) !!!

The second question is with regard to cost:

b) When I have come across the Leica 60 mm. f/2.8 macro lens, it has a price
tag of around 400 to 425 USD. (*This is not everyday, you can also convert the
price to your currency. This are prices seen in 2012). The price to Leitax the
lens or to buy a converter from Novoflex is around 200 USD. The total price
for such a lens is then around 625 USD. By contrast, a new Zeiss ZE or ZF.2
lens is twice the price, around 1,283 USD The Leica or Zeiss Contax lens may
be older as five years and may have not been CLAed in a long time. As another
"cost" is the fact, that you may have to stop down to meter every time you take
a picture. Your costs may now be more or less the cost of a new ZE or ZF.2 lens.
Do you still go with the Leica or the Zeiss Contax lens? Why?

Thank you, kind regards,

igmolinav : ) !!!

Jan 27, 2013 at 11:14 AM

telyt
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p.1 #2 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

igmolinav wrote: Being interested or concerned about the sharpness of the image, (some
lenses deliver, some others don't), were there some better versions of the
Leica 60 mm. than others, regarding sharpness?

There was only one optical version of the Leica 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R.

igmolinav wrote: ... another "cost" is the fact, that you may have to stop down to meter every time you take a picture.

If the light doesn't change there's no need to take a meter reading for each picture.

Jan 27, 2013 at 12:56 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.1 #3 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

I have had the Leica 60mm in my stable for a long time - together with the 60mm Zeiss macro.

The Leica lens is a better allround lens and sharper wide open around infinity than the Zeiss lens. You can use the Leica lens at any aperture (within reasons at stopped down below f11) and the lens is a very fine lens with smooth-ish boked and superb build. It goes down to 1:2 and is physically smaller and lighter than the Zeiss 60mm (AE 1:1).

The Zeiss 60mm is a little sharper close up and has rougher bokeh (but I prefer it unless there is a point source light in the background) but does not do very well around infinity unless you stop down to f5.6 - as mentioned in the literature with the lens it is optimized for close range so it must be stopped down around infinity. At f2.8 and f4 it is actually quite fuzzy. At 5.6 it is back in the game.

When I was shooting for covers/magazines and general/informal portraits and I can say that despite my having a plethora of great Zeiss lenses the shots with the 60mm were often most favored by the vict... subjects themselves. Some of my best shots have been with the Zeiss 60 and I can't really let it go.

So, despite the drawbacks I decided to keep the Zeiss 60 and actually landed one New In Box the other week. My former copy is camping out with a friend who bought my Sony A900. I never used the Leica 60 on the Sony A900 but used it extensively on Canon full frame (and Leica film bodies) and maybe I should have kept it to use on my GXR as I do have the R to M adapter. But, I donated the Leica 60 lens to a poor/student photographer who still uses it, I think. This was a few years ago.

To be more in tune with what you are asking I think that by the looks of it the newer Zeiss 50mm have more contrast than the Leica 60 and I am not sure if they draw any better and considering the price difference I would not hesitate to give the Leica 60 a whirl. It might be a little flare prone though, with the sun just out of the frame.

The Zeiss 50 might have also have a little more punchy contrast, as said before.

I will try to dig up a Leica 60 shot for you today and post here.

Jan 27, 2013 at 01:56 PM

Peire
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p.1 #4 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

I used to have Leica 60/2.8 and have still 60/2.8 MP C/Y and 50/2 MP ZF1.

I agree with what kosmoskatten said about the Leica and C/Y MP.I would say 50/2 MP is the best of the bunch.Not only because it's the fastest,but it beats 60/2.8 C/Y in mid range/infinity sharpness,esp below f5.6 and has better microcontrast.It is also sharper and contrastier overall compared to the Leica 60/2.8.

This does not imply you'll be unhappy with 60 C/Y of Leica - they are both great lenses,but 50/2 is a clear winner for me.And you won't need any leitaxing,only an adapter to adapt ZF/ZF.2 to Canon and nothing to use with Nikon.

some of the older stuff with MP 60/2.8 C/Y:

NEX at f8

This image is copyrighted by the owner

NEX at 2.8 or f4

This image is copyrighted by the owner

NEX at f5.6

This image is copyrighted by the owner

NEX at f8 - macro

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Some with 50/2 MP:

Nikon D600 af f11

This image is copyrighted by the owner

NEX af f2.8 ISO 400 - heavily distorted in PP yet still very sharp across the frame at 100% despite poor lighting,one f stop more than wo and high ISO

This image is copyrighted by the owner

NEX at f8 distant landscape

This image is copyrighted by the owner

NEX at f8

NEX af f8 macro

This image is copyrighted by the owner

And finally Leica at f8 on EOS 50D,this is all I can find now:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

and on th EOS 5D2 at f11

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited on Jan 27, 2013 at 05:04 PM · View previous versions

Jan 27, 2013 at 04:34 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.1 #5 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Peire; very interesting. The 50/2 should make for a viable option for APS-C cameras too, considering the smaller size and being one stop faster.

How come you still have the Contax C/Y 60 macro around? Nostalgia? 1:1 capability?

Jan 27, 2013 at 04:56 PM

johnahill
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p.1 #6 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

The Elmarit-R 60mm is a pretty decent all rounder.
I have the E55 version and I use it for macro and for landscapes and it's just as good at infinity than at close-range.

It's probably not the most contrasty lens but it's not such low contrast, probably a bit less than the typical Zeiss though.

There are cheaper options for adapters than the novoflex and Leitax, although i've used both and both are fantastic.
Fotodiox pro, rayqual and kindai adapters are also worth a look.

Personally if you plan to use the lens for a long time the Leitax conversion is worth the investment, you don't have to buy all the extras such as af confirm chip and fitting of chip as these can be done DIY fairly easily.

I must admit though the newer Zeiss 50mm Makro-Planar looks to be very good and i'm sorely tempted to get that to replace the Leica as I generally perfer the Zeiss rendering and micro contrast and have become used to full exif and auto-aperture of the ZE lenses.

Below are all examples of the Macro Elmarit-R 60mm

2013 © johnahill

Lee 10stop ND used

2013 © johnahill

Jan 27, 2013 at 05:10 PM

Peire
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p.1 #7 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Kosmoskatten,

My 60/2.8 is the C version so gets only to 1:2 but it's tiny and lightweight,so I keep it when I need Zeiss quality for close-ups in the smallest possible package

.

For ultimate quality and absolute versatility I tend to use 50/2 MP though.

The truth is - once I get an excellent Zeiss glass I just keep it for good.That is the main reason I believe that made me have 28 of them now

My feelings towards Zeiss glass are very warm,to say.Leica doesn't attract me that much.

Jan 27, 2013 at 05:14 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.1 #8 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

John; nice set of images they do the Leica 60 justice.

Peire: phew! That's a great collection you must have then. With a few exceptions I also prefer Zeiss to Leica.

I have had my share of great Zeiss lenses but considering how little I shoot nowadays I decided to give them more loving homes. I keep a bare minimum to make sure I can do a little shooting now and then without feeling bad about having a great system that doesn't get used.

Jan 27, 2013 at 06:56 PM

philber
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p.1 #9 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Igmolinav, I have a Leica 60R, which I used both on Canon 5D II and on NEX, and have extensively used a Zeiss ZE 50 Planar f:1.4. The Leica is almost the opposite of a Zeiss. Lovely colours, vast amounts of detail, but with relatively low micro-contrast, so it does not strike you as "sharp" so much as "delicate", unlike most macro lenses. Though it is, in fact quite sharp indeed, but balanced to reveal more detail and delicateness than sharpness, as opposed to the Z* 50 MP. As said above it is as good at infinity as close up, whch makes it very versatile indeed, and very good value for money.
Hrewith two examples, typical of what I call the "delicate" rendering of the 60 R, on a NEX 5N.

2013 © philber

NEX-5N 1/8 sec 100 ISO +0.3 EV

2013 © philber

NEX-5N 1/8 sec 100 ISO +0.3 EV

Jan 27, 2013 at 10:22 PM

igmolinav
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p.1 #10 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Hi,

Thank you for your messages and the photos : ) !!!

They look beautiful !!!

In the last three weeks or so I have
been looking for a copy of a 60 mm.
macro. Let's see how my search
turns out.

Kind regards,

igmolinav : ) !!!

Feb 28, 2013 at 05:51 PM

redisburning
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p.1 #11 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

honestly my answer is both.

in fact I will +1 what Philber said, you want the Zeiss for when you want crunch and to get smacked around a bit by its apparent sharpness and the Leica for when you value it's gentler rendering and IMO superior color separation. So, the Zeiss for anything metal, industrial, etc. and the Leica for organics like flowers.

just my 2c.

Feb 28, 2013 at 06:14 PM

plasticmotif
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p.1 #12 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

huge archive of Zeiss ZE 50/2 MP:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=678221&highlight=zeiss+50

I much prefer the MP over all of the other 50ish macros.

igmolinav, what camera will this lens be mounted on? Canon? If so, you've got a load of really, really good options.

Olympus OM 50/2 Macro, Olympus Om 50/3.5 Macro, Sigma 50/2.8 Macro and Canon Compact Macro (flat color, extreme sharpness and good bokeh with auto-focus)

The OM 50/3.5 is stellar The OM 50/2 is even better, but larger and more expensive. The Sigma 50 is extremely cheap, does 1:1 has good color and bokeh, but lacks contrast.

I prefer the OMs to the Lecia. The caveat is at macro distances. The 50 MP is easily the best of the bunch, in my opinion. For dual purpose, the R macro is a great cheaper alternative. For macro to medium distances, I love OMs.

Feb 28, 2013 at 06:39 PM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #13 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

I enjoyed my 1st time with the leica North at infinity and mfd.

http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2013/02/sony-nex-7-with-leica-60mm-macro.html

Feb 28, 2013 at 07:44 PM

Bob YILDIRAN
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p.1 #14 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

60 Elmarit on the D800E...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49832862@N02/8393266816/sizes/o/in/photostream/

(in case of issue open the "original" on the following one)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49832862@N02/8393266816/

Feb 28, 2013 at 07:46 PM

JimUe
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p.1 #15 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

I've had:
Leica 50/2-r;
Minolta 50/2.8 macro

I now have:
Leica 50/1.4-r;
Zeiss 50/2 zf.

I fell for the zeiss koolaid here on FM and got the 50mp + leitax for my a900. it's really contrasty, lovely rendering and micro-contrast but for the life of me, I can't love this lens because of its colour cast, which when compared to my Minolta lenses looks just way off. I'm wodering if its me but I've been itching for a year to find a e55 leitz 60/2.8 to compare it to.

Feb 28, 2013 at 10:28 PM

igmolinav
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p.1 #16 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Hi,

redisburning wrote:
honestly my answer is both.

in fact I will +1 what Philber said, you want the Zeiss for when you want crunch and to get smacked around a bit by its apparent sharpness and the Leica for when you value it's gentler rendering and IMO superior color separation. So, the Zeiss for anything metal, industrial, etc. and the Leica for organics like flowers.

just my 2c.

So, for people, would you use more the Leica or the Zeiss lens?

Thank you, kind regards,

igmolinav : ) !!!

Feb 28, 2013 at 10:47 PM

igmolinav
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p.1 #17 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Hi,

ken.vs.ryu wrote:
I enjoyed my 1st time with the leica North at infinity and mfd.

http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2013/02/sony-nex-7-with-leica-60mm-macro.html

Thank you : ) !!! Very nice pictures !!!

Amazing to see and read that pictures
were taken with aperture values be-
tween f/2.8 and f/5.6

I had been looking at other pictures
made with Leica lenses. It was seeing
yours that I now think that Leica is very
"pastel" with its colors. Aren't they?

Kind regards,

igmolinav : ) !!!

Feb 28, 2013 at 10:59 PM

igmolinav
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p.1 #18 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

Hi,

Bob YILDIRAN wrote:
60 Elmarit on the D800E...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49832862@N02/8393266816/sizes/o/in/photostream/

(in case of issue open the "original" on the following one)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49832862@N02/8393266816/

Thank you : ) !!! Interesting picture! Do you have by any chance
another picture with this combination of Nikon D800E + 60 mm. ??

Kind regards,

igmolinav : ) !!!

Feb 28, 2013 at 11:09 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #19 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

I'll ban myself from further 50P comment before carsten has me lynched, but will content myself by saying firstly, it would be great to own all these as they are so very different and good in their own ways. Second, the Leica, any Leica, will do a better job of portraits than the 50MP.

Lastly, respected publication c't digital photography use the 50MP as their 'go to' 50mm lens for performance. A look at the MTF charts for that one and the Leica-R 60/2.8 shows the 50MP to be (much) stronger at f2 than the Leica-R at f2.8, at f5.6 the gap is smaller but real. Both are 1:2 so not true macros more general purpose, both are very low distortion.

So the sharpness of the 50Mp is certainly more than 'apparent', as is the level of detail rendered. The Leica 60/2.8 is diffraction impacted by f8, you can see this also in the MTF charts for it. It's quite common for Leica to aim for astounding performance at wider apertures at the cost of stopped down performance, the Summicron-R also shows diffraction affects at f8.

Colour is also a matter of opinion, colour casts are easily removed/altered in post. WB is more critical for higher contrast lenses. Koolaid is sugary and sweet (25 grams per cup), something the 50Mp can never be accused of ;-)

Best of all is to look through the image thresds here, igmolinav.

Mar 01, 2013 at 02:33 AM

alwang
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p.1 #20 · Hi : ) !!! Leica 60 mm. and Zeiss 50 mm. - your comments, a couple questions

The Leica 60 is my favorite out of all the lenses I own. To me, it has a very unique look, and if I could identify any other Leica lenses that draw like it, I'd be a lot poorer right now. When people describe the Leica look as 'painterly', I don't always see it, but I absolutely see it with the 60: something about the images just look slightly less real, in a very beautiful way. It's a particularly unusual look among macros, which mostly seem designed to be cool and clinical.

Some samples:

convergent by alwang, on Flickr

feeders by alwang, on Flickr

timber by alwang, on Flickr

wolfish by alwang, on Flickr

Mar 01, 2013 at 03:03 AM

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