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NEVER use Paypal Gift, Venmo, Zelle, Apple Pay, Google Pay or any other uninsured payment!
  

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Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions

  
 
DaveG_NJ
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


I've had buyers pay with Paypal Gift when I didn't ask for it. It's actually a pain for shipping when they do that because a regular PP payment let's me quickly and easily print a discounted shipping label directly from PP. When payment is sent as a gift (like you'd send to a friend or family member), the system assumes nothing was purchased and so you don't need a shipping label. Which forces me to go directly to the shipper's site and manually create a label at a higher cost.


Sep 03, 2017 at 08:50 AM
ron_9
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Those that lie, to say it is a gift, have already given some sort of indicator that they are willing to cheat the system. What else is being cheated upon. Won't do it -- don't do it---ron s.



Nov 01, 2017 at 02:27 PM
teddoman
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


DaveG_NJ wrote:
I've had buyers pay with Paypal Gift when I didn't ask for it. It's actually a pain for shipping when they do that because a regular PP payment let's me quickly and easily print a discounted shipping label directly from PP. When payment is sent as a gift (like you'd send to a friend or family member), the system assumes nothing was purchased and so you don't need a shipping label. Which forces me to go directly to the shipper's site and manually create a label at a higher cost.

It's a PITB to create your own labels. Why would I want to create more grief for myself? PP regular is a service and I insist on paying for it.



Jan 30, 2018 at 09:17 PM
teddoman
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


mineymole wrote:
Also - the biggest issue I have had in the past is not the transaction - it's things getting lost in the post. I now only use UPS Insured for high value items and I always require a signature.

USPS seems to ship reliably and inexpensively, but I hate worrying about not getting an insurance payout due to some ridiculous technicality. I've also read UPS has its own technicalities. If UPS or Fedex insurance payouts were assured, I could be persuaded to switch.



Jan 30, 2018 at 09:22 PM
danh920
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


DaveG_NJ wrote:
I've had buyers pay with Paypal Gift when I didn't ask for it. It's actually a pain for shipping when they do that because a regular PP payment let's me quickly and easily print a discounted shipping label directly from PP. When payment is sent as a gift (like you'd send to a friend or family member), the system assumes nothing was purchased and so you don't need a shipping label. Which forces me to go directly to the shipper's site and manually create a label at a higher cost.


Use the multi order shipping tool thru pp. Same prices



Jan 30, 2018 at 09:36 PM
AndrewNYC
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


I feel like it would be good to have a policy around "all prices quoted include paypal with fees and insured shipping". I think the insured shipping is a grey area of risk for the group. It's often not overtly discussed and if something goes wrong it could lead to a lot of trouble. I believe if the insurance isn't on the item, it's actually the buyers risk, legally speaking.


Aug 06, 2019 at 10:52 AM
bluloo
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


AndrewNYC wrote:
I feel like it would be good to have a policy around "all prices quoted include paypal with fees and insured shipping". I think the insured shipping is a grey area of risk for the group. It's often not overtly discussed and if something goes wrong it could lead to a lot of trouble. I believe if the insurance isn't on the item, it's actually the buyers risk, legally speaking.


I think it’s the seller’s responsibility. If you purchase an item via regular PP or CC etc , and if It’s shiped uninsured and it arrives damaged, PP or the CC issuer is going to hold the seller accountable, not the buyer.

Ditto for items from most any retailer.

Edited on Aug 06, 2019 at 05:09 PM · View previous versions



Aug 06, 2019 at 11:28 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


I believe this discussion to be completely independent of this post. This post was created in conjunction with Paypal's new provision back then to allow you to pay money to friends/family from your paypal balance with no fees, and in exchange for that, Paypal refused to cover the buyer with any kind of protection, because it was supposed to be a gift and not payment in return for goods.

This is shipping and insurance related, not paypal covering the buyer with their buyer's agreement, and that is an arrangement set up and agreed to between buyer and seller on any given transaction. There needs to be no rules around this, it is part of the negotiations each party should have before payment is made.



Aug 06, 2019 at 11:32 AM
AndrewNYC
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


TeamSpeed wrote:
I believe this discussion to be completely independent of this post. This post was created in conjunction with Paypal's new provision back then to allow you to pay money to friends/family from your paypal balance with no fees, and in exchange for that, Paypal refused to cover the buyer with any kind of protection, because it was supposed to be a gift and not payment in return for goods.

This is shipping and insurance related, not paypal covering the buyer with their buyer's agreement, and that is an arrangement set up and agreed to between buyer and seller on any given
...Show more

It's a discussion about the default setting here and if we need a nudge to express all things in full paypal + shipped with insurance basis to mitigate the risk of things happening here as a group. Of course people are free to do what they want. I'm just lobbying that if we all start quoting in full paypal terms people might start using it more. As there are apparently people watching this forum and looking to take advantage of situatuions, it might be for the best.



Aug 06, 2019 at 12:04 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


The best deterrent is to do your due diligence with the seller or buyer, set up safe guards where needed, etc.

Just because these rules are posted, guess what? Many of us aren't following them because we are seasoned buyers and sellers, and know how to manage transactions. I have accepted gift payments since 2013, and have paid via gift. I have insured shipments in some cases, and not in others. It really doesn't matter what we post here as guidelines or rules to follow, those that want to scam us are always thinking of new ways, so in return, we have to be more diligent and use common sense more than ever.

Shipping is just another negotiated item and there are no rules around it. If a buyer has a shipping account, I will use theirs if so desired. If there is insurance needed on a big ticket item, I try to split that cost with the other party. Each and every transaction can be a unique situation.

I don't do immediate business with a) new members that don't have a history on the forum and b) members that have been strangely silent or absent from the board for more than 6 months or so. Those raise red flags and then all forms of protective practices kick in. These are the guidelines we really need, how to vet out a buyer or seller, what are the red flags, and how to manage different aspects of the transaction.



Aug 06, 2019 at 12:11 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

AndrewNYC
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


TeamSpeed wrote:
The best deterrent is to do your due diligence with the seller or buyer, set up safe guards where needed, etc.

Just because these rules are posted, guess what? Many of us aren't following them because we are seasoned buyers and sellers, and know how to manage transactions. I have accepted gift payments since 2013, and have paid via gift. I have insured shipments in some cases, and not in others. It really doesn't matter what we post here as guidelines or rules to follow, those that want to scam us are always thinking of new ways, so in return,
...Show more

Great. Thanks for sharing your opinion.



Aug 06, 2019 at 01:16 PM
DexterK
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Thank You for this post, being a new FM member I appreciate all the warnings and suggestions on this site

steve
bromcam



Aug 06, 2019 at 03:38 PM
John Power
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


I have had 90 transactions on B/S with zero problems. I have paid by personal check (at first) and paypal. I don't think it matters what payment method you use if you are dealing with established reputable members. If you are an established member and a new member offers an item for sale then one option is to have them send you the item and if it is acceptable you will send payment. If not, you will return it at your expense. If you have sufficient feedback the seller should be willing to do this and you should mention that feedback when you agree to purchase the item.

We are not talking about 800mm 1.2s here. Routine purchases.



Aug 06, 2019 at 06:50 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Agreed, I have 224 here on this forum, and other than one close call with a purchase I made, all other transactions went perfectly in both directions.

This post went out in 2013 when there was a craze of sale posts that said "pay by gift, or pay the 3%", and Fred received many complaints, I believe, plus the risk was high for people to be out money from a shady deal with no recourse in Paypal to file a claim.

That is the purpose of this sticky. However it is a guideline. As long as the two parties are comfortable with each other, and each has vetted the other out via feedback, forum involvement, a personal connection, a long-term connection on the forum, or other means, any form of payment would be sufficient. Any form of shipping would be sufficient. Insurance or no insurance would be sufficient. These are merely nothing more than levels of risk that have to be managed.

Background check tips for researching someone before having a monetary transaction with them (if you don't know them):

- Research their posting history here (and feedback)
- Don't be afraid to ask for other references like Amazon seller ID, Ebay ID, other forum screen names, and then research by seeing their involvement and feedback, and contact them on those other sites to verify
- Google their name and address
- Google their email address
- Google their paypal address if different from email address (very important)
- Ask for a personal phone number and give them a call
- If they are selling something, make sure the pictures posted are of a personal nature, like have their phone number in the picture, or forum screen-name, so that you can verify they didn't hijack someone else's pics.
- Ask technical questions about the gear, like what did they like about it, etc. If it is their gear, they should know something about it. Otherwise they might be just reselling gear, selling stolen gear, or trying to scam you.

The less that can be found out, the more cautious one needs to be.

Edited on Aug 07, 2019 at 09:59 AM · View previous versions



Aug 07, 2019 at 06:26 AM
rjb138
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


All of this is great advice.

How about the recent post (8/26/19) from brand new member, NO feedback, selling $10,950 Sony lens - "Any normal payment method is fine, for insured PayPal please add 3%". Legit??



Aug 30, 2019 at 05:12 PM
davidrhorer
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Let me chime in here. "The rules on FM are guidelines, not rules that we have to follow," according to a poster here. Fair enough. But Paypal does have rules, and those rules should be followed. Bottom line: It's a clear violation of one's agreement with Paypal, and Paypal is deprived of its fees, when Paypal FF (family and friends) is used in a buy/sell transaction. Furthermore, buyers and sellers who use Paypal FF aren't protected, should the transaction go south. If the buyer never receives the item, or there's an issue with the payment, both buyer and seller are out of luck, and neither has any recourse. Also, consider this. Paypal offers the family and friends option as a service. If the service is abused, the service will be terminated. Lastly, Paypal fees are affected—the fees that everyone pays—when folks misuse Paypal FF. Paypal's costs go up and so do everyone's fees.

Edited on Sep 10, 2019 at 07:08 AM · View previous versions



Sep 09, 2019 at 05:06 PM
SidelinePros
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


bluloo wrote:
I think it’s the seller’s responsibility. If you purchase an item via regular PP or CC etc , and if It’s shiped uninsured and it arrives damaged, PP or the CC issuer is going to hold the seller accountable, not the buyer.

Ditto for items from most any retailer.


I agree. I have been burned by a member on this board. The box arrived damaged. He didn't insure it for the full amount. I made the mistake of trying to get a case opened with USPS so the seller could get the item either paid for or repaired. Either way he assured me I would not be burned by this transaction and he has ghosted me. I have all his public information so not sure what to do about the situation now. Any suggestions?



Sep 09, 2019 at 09:01 PM
bluloo
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


SidelinePros wrote:
I agree. I have been burned by a member on this board. The box arrived damaged. He didn't insure it for the full amount. I made the mistake of trying to get a case opened with USPS so the seller could get the item either paid for or repaired. Either way he assured me I would not be burned by this transaction and he has ghosted me. I have all his public information so not sure what to do about the situation now. Any suggestions?


File a PP claim.



Sep 10, 2019 at 11:42 AM
nana kofi
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


I respect ALL the rules here and can appreciate why they were made. Paypal, however doesn't work everywhere. I live in Ghana and we're not listed. I do have a Chase account in New York however, which makes it easier to pay by Chase Quick Pay or Zelle. There've been a few times when I've pm'ed members on here, and it didn't go too well. I probably fit the profile of a scammer .

I hope we start seeing this platform as an international space, and not just an American one. It would make us feel more welcome.



Sep 19, 2019 at 03:38 PM
molson
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


davidrhorer wrote:
But Paypal does have rules, and those rules should be followed. Bottom line: It's a clear violation of one's agreement with Paypal, and Paypal is deprived of its fees, when Paypal FF (family and friends) is used in a buy/sell transaction.


If you're such a stickler for the rules, you're probably aware that credit card companies' Terms of Service prohibit charging a fee for use of their cards, yet PayPal charges this fee anyway, in clear violation of the TOS. How do you rationalize that?



Sep 22, 2019 at 11:47 AM
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