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Archive 2013 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?
  
 
Monito
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p.7 #1 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


StillFingerz wrote:
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes. -- Confucius


Excellent. It reminds me of one of my favourite sayings:

"A man should never be ashamed to own he has been in the wrong, which is but saying, in other words, that he is wiser today than he was yesterday". -- Alexander Pope



Jan 21, 2013 at 11:18 PM
RCicala
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p.7 #2 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Ernie Aubert wrote:
That's great! (By the way, I can't fathom why anyone would want to hide Roger...)


If my wife reads this, she'll be asking for a hide button at home.



Jan 21, 2013 at 11:36 PM
KFG1
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p.7 #3 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Modern Problem Solving:

> Unable to do something

> Assume product is not working

>Facebook/Tweet update about poor design

>Go into forum to find answer using subject heading " X is f*cking sh*t help!"

>No answer after 2 minutes

>Facebook/Tweet about being ripped off

>Still no answer after 5 minutes

>Go on all forums and trash the brand

> Get bored - Decide to read manual

>Problem solved

>Facebook picture of a cat



Jan 22, 2013 at 01:19 AM
Matt Howell
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p.7 #4 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


You've been hanging out at dpreview.

KFG1 wrote:
Modern Problem Solving:

> Unable to do something

> Assume product is not working

>Facebook/Tweet update about poor design

>Go into forum to find answer using subject heading " X is f*cking sh*t help!"

>No answer after 2 minutes

>Facebook/Tweet about being ripped off

>Still no answer after 5 minutes

>Go on all forums and trash the brand

> Get bored - Decide to read manual

>Problem solved

>Facebook picture of a cat



Jan 22, 2013 at 01:48 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.7 #5 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Nothing is wrong with cat pictures, imo

@ Roger:
Your wife is reading your privat post?



Jan 22, 2013 at 08:34 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.7 #6 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Rickuz wrote:
I don't think anyone has said that it is a bad camera. The problem is that the 5D3 is not enough of an upgrade to the 5D2, and this is where the conflict and confusion emerged. People who bought the 5D3 were angry to hear that other people dared to criticize their new object of love, hence the flame wars.

The 5D3 is a very nice camera, but it is far from what I and many others would call an upgrade to the 5D2. A true successor would be something like the D800, minus the focus issues.

But anyway, this is an
...Show more


"I and many others ..."

Imo this is the point: In the past years while everybody gets access to the internet it added many people, who really believe their opinion is others, too and the truth.

Dear Rikuz, I and many others (!) believe the 6D is the real and a great succesor of the 5D II. 5D III is not a 5D II follow up, but the intro in a new camera range. And a great one if not the best all around tool.

But like you said: This is a different matter. Concerning the topic, I still can see the positive tone in most threads. It is just overlsampled by the more harsh and aggressive one of a few posters, who use plattforms like this to cry out their personal frustration and want to be listened.

I found out myself that best is not to react upon and feed the fire. But often I can not! It is a look into the mirror to often and my own frustration and wishes to be heard often works against it.

Ralph



Jan 22, 2013 at 08:53 AM
Rickuz
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p.7 #7 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Ralph Conway wrote:
.. I and many others (!) believe the 6D is the real and a great succesor of the 5D II. 5D III is not a 5D II follow up, but the intro in a new camera range.


Haha, I'm not sure how to react to this one, without a negative tone.

You are either delusional or just trolling. Or perhaps it's just an odd sense of humor?

End of statement.



Jan 22, 2013 at 09:41 AM
ggreene
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p.7 #8 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Dear Rikuz, I and many others (!) believe the 6D is the real and a great succesor of the 5D II. 5D III is not a 5D II follow up, but the intro in a new camera range.


Um, I'm not sure how in the world you can say the 5D3 is not the next model in line in the 5D series. I suppose if you are talking about a more affordable FF body then the 6D is a nice upgrade from a used 5D2 but Canon has pretty well defined what the follow up 5D body is.



Jan 22, 2013 at 05:37 PM
PetKal
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p.7 #9 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Rickuz wrote:
Haha, I'm not sure how to react to this one, without a negative tone.

You are either delusional or just trolling. Or perhaps it's just an odd sense of humor?

End of statement.


Ralph addressed you with "dear"......that is very positive, perhaps too positive .



Jan 22, 2013 at 05:47 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.7 #10 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Rickuz wrote:
Haha, I'm not sure how to react to this one, without a negative tone.

You are either delusional or just trolling. Or perhaps it's just an odd sense of humor?

End of statement.


Yes, maybe my sense of humor may be odd. But I was just repeating exactly your words to show, what you where doing.



Jan 22, 2013 at 06:32 PM
 

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artd
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p.7 #11 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Here's my take on things. I think there are three primary sources of negative tone:

1. Someone is characterized as a "troll" or that they are "trolling" or something to that effect.

2. Someone is characterized a "fanboy" or "loyalist" or something to that effect.

3. Someone is condescending, dismissive, or ridicules someone else. (And actually, 1 and 2 above are really just specific ways of being condescending or dismissive).

I think that no matter what, one of those three things will always happen. But: just because one of the above things does happen, that doesn't mean the entire thread (or entire forum) is doomed to take on a negative tone. The key is to not react in the same manner.

Just because someone makes a snarky remark, that doesn't mean you have to respond in a snarky fashion. If someone calls you a fanboy, you don't have to call them a troll, or vice versa. If someone is acerbic in their tone, you can respond with a more measured, netural tone.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Don't feed the trolls." Well, the ironic thing is everytime that phrase is used, a troll gets fed. Because they are looking for a negative reaction, and you are giving them one. If you feel someone is trolling, you can either ignore them, or you can make a reasoned response illustrating why they are out of line. But, once you engage in an attack by calling them a troll, or once you make a dismissive comment, or once you ridicule them, then you've lost. Because any time you are dismissive, you are perpetuating negativity instead of fighting it.

I put it to the forum: the atmosphere here will follow whatever tone you consistently post with. It is tempting to respond to negativity with more negativity, to sarcasm with more sarcasm. But, if you avoid that, then those occasional negative posts will effectively be marginalized.




Jan 22, 2013 at 06:35 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.7 #12 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


ggreene wrote:
Um, I'm not sure how in the world you can say the 5D3 is not the next model in line in the 5D series. I suppose if you are talking about a more affordable FF body then the 6D is a nice upgrade from a used 5D2 but Canon has pretty well defined what the follow up 5D body is.


Of course 5D III is the next model in the 5 line. But it lifted the 5 up to a more pro level, while 6D continues the level of 5D I and 5D II. Doing (nearly) everything a bit better at same price level (in fact 6D here in germany is already just 10-15 $ above a new 5D II). Some here may think 5D III does not add much value to the existing 5D II. I think this is wrong. It is not only better in all things. in many cases it is a huge step from 5D II to 5D III. DR is not. But as far I see it it this is the only thing.

Ralph



Jan 22, 2013 at 06:40 PM
Monito
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p.7 #13 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Ralph Conway wrote:
.. I and many others (!) believe the 6D is the real and a great succesor of the 5D II. 5D III is not a 5D II follow up, but the intro in a new camera range.


Rickuz wrote:
Haha, I'm not sure how to react to this one, without a negative tone.
You are either delusional or just trolling. Or perhaps it's just an odd sense of humor?


Try this way: don't refer to the person unless you absolutely have to. Refer to the statement and discuss the statement as fact or as opinion.

Simply write something like "The 6D can't be the real successor to the 5D II because ..." and give reasons.



Jan 22, 2013 at 06:40 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.7 #14 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


artd wrote:
Here's my take on things. I think there are three primary sources of negative tone:

1. Someone is characterized as a "troll" or that they are "trolling" or something to that effect.

2. Someone is characterized a "fanboy" or "loyalist" or something to that effect.

3. Someone is condescending, dismissive, or ridicules someone else. (And actually, 1 and 2 above are really just specific ways of being condescending or dismissive).

I think that no matter what, one of those three things will always happen. But: just because one of the above things does happen, that doesn't mean the entire thread (or entire forum) is
...Show more

I was called a both, a troll and a fanboy in the past. Because I did not share others negative opinions, but offered a different one (of course my own) in the past. In both cases I said: Call me a troll (or fanboy), my opinion still remains different from yours. What caused only more negative reactions.

Meanwhile I add nearly allways "my opinion" in brackets. It does not really change anything. I started to stop to react on any fights based on frustration. It needed some energy and a view in the mirror, too. But less than feeding the flame. I just realized, that most of the agressive whiners in any forum are not unhappy with the gear they critisize but just with the lifes they live. Upon our level (talking about gear worth a couple of thousends of $/) to me it is just a fact that everybody is responsible for his own life. If anybody tells me, he is unhappy because Canon, Nikon, Sony or any other manufacturer does not do their jobs correct, he/she should think about his/her life.

We can choose out of the best photographic gear ever produced. If this is not good enough one may ask him or herself what is the real cause why they are not happy. Its surely not gear.







Jan 22, 2013 at 07:01 PM
StillFingerz
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p.7 #15 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


History repeats as of late...
- Rebel bodies, minor bling added in small bites.
- xxD bodies, 20/30/40/50D, canon decides to service two segments, 7D and 60D are born
- FF bodies, 5D/5D2, canon decides to service two segments, 5D3 and 6D are born
- Pro bodies, 1D-1D4, canon decides to service two segments, 1DX and; we all hope, a future high MP/DR body

It's a simple roadmap that services both entry level/high end hobbyist and entry level/high end pro, and keeps the Rebel masses happy with their new bling like touch screens, and touch AF, etc.

As for the mirror less, we get the M with it's smaller footprint and EF-X lens set, a followon with a electronic viewfinder, a flip-out screen and maybe better AF, then later perhaps a bit bigger more traditional body that uses FF sensor and EF lenses; if the market seems profitable.

Just a thought...pulled right out of my...opinion, which is based on nothing tangable...perse



Jan 22, 2013 at 07:09 PM
blitzn
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p.7 #16 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


artd said: "the atmosphere here will follow whatever tone you consistently post with."

+1



Jan 23, 2013 at 01:57 AM
pingflood
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p.7 #17 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


artd wrote:
Here's my take on things. I think there are three primary sources of negative tone:

1. Someone is characterized as a "troll" or that they are "trolling" or something to that effect.

2. Someone is characterized a "fanboy" or "loyalist" or something to that effect.

3. Someone is condescending, dismissive, or ridicules someone else. (And actually, 1 and 2 above are really just specific ways of being condescending or dismissive).



I'd like to add:

4. Someone states their opinion as fact.



Jan 23, 2013 at 10:12 AM
Paul Mo
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p.7 #18 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


Ralph Conway wrote:
what is the real cause why they are not happy. Its surely not gear.




Perhaps it's wanting to be someone? To have their opinions respected, to be praised, followed, fawned upon?



Jan 23, 2013 at 10:24 AM
artd
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p.7 #19 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


pingflood wrote:
I'd like to add:

4. Someone states their opinion as fact.

This is one to be careful with. Sometimes a poster makes a statement which isn't very smart, or supported by any factual evidence. But that doesn't necessary mean they are trying to state an opinion as fact; they may be uninformed, misinformed, or just not thinking very clearly about what they are saying. While that may make their post annoying, it doesn't necessarily make it negative. Of course sometimes it is negative, but in such a case it is because they are being condescending or dismissive of other opinions...so that would be covered by #3

The real trouble starts when people start attacking or ridiculing the original poster of the opinion because they perceive the original poster is trying to state their opinion as fact. Again, sometimes that is the case, but sometimes it isn't, and it just becomes a handy straw man to say it is. Either way, I suggest that instead of ridiculing the poster with the opinion, it would be better to use a more tactful approach. Consider the following:



Random Poster: "Man, the D800 is such a better camera than the 5DIII."

Potential responses:

Option 1, condescending response: "Wow, how sad, you clearly have never used autofocus in your life."

Option 2, dismissive response: "Then go buy one and leave us alone."

Option 3, ridiculing response: "You obviously don't have the brains to realize lots of people use a 5DIII because they find its features make it a better all around camera."

Option 4, patient response: "While that might seem so in your eyes, I think you should consider that many people find the features on the 5DIII make it a better all around camera for them."



To this forum's credit, I see a lot more Option 4 responses here than I do on most forums. But when someone says something not very smart, it is still very tempting to use Options 1-3. If we want a less negative atmosphere on the forum overall, I would be an advocate of resisting such temptation.

Just my opinion, of course



Jan 23, 2013 at 08:38 PM
Ernie Aubert
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p.7 #20 · Does this forum have a negative tone lately?


artd wrote:
This is one to be careful with. Sometimes a poster makes a statement which isn't very smart, or supported by any factual evidence. But that doesn't necessary mean they are trying to state an opinion as fact; they may be uninformed, misinformed, or just not thinking very clearly about what they are saying. While that may make their post annoying, it doesn't necessarily make it negative. Of course sometimes it is negative, but in such a case it is because they are being condescending or dismissive of other opinions...so that would be covered by #3

The real trouble starts when
...Show more

Option 5, which is the one I and probably 98% of the rest of us, usually use: No response at all.



Jan 23, 2013 at 10:52 PM
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