Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2013 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear
  
 
simonw
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


For anyone interested in the history of Zeiss there are currently a couple of fascinating threads over on the MFlenses forum at http://forum.mflenses.com documenting the re-appearance of two prototype Contax/Yashica lenses, a 25mm F1.4 and an 18mm F2.8 in a collection handed down to his grandson by Dr. Erhard Glatzel.

Totally mind blowing stuff!

Until I came across them I never even knew these lenses existed.

Makes you wonder what other fascinating lenses might be out there. I know that Olympus had a prototype Zuiko 85mm F1.4 that never made it into production. Anyone know any others like that?

Cheers, Simon W.



Jan 19, 2013 at 08:05 PM
wayne seltzer
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


The prototype I want is the Zeiss PC ApoDistagon 25/3.5 lens designed by same designer who designed the legendary C/Y 21/2.8!
Droooool!



Jan 19, 2013 at 08:17 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Interesting that the 25/1.4 exists, I wonder if it predates the Yashica partnership as Pentax showed a 24/1.4 around the same time as their partnership with Zeiss broke up.


Jan 19, 2013 at 08:59 PM
ricardovaste
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


I'm sure there is a prototype of a Minolta 24-70/2.8 G SSM out there somewhere. Or was it 28-70/2.8 G SSM? I imagine there are many interesting unreleased lenses wondering the earth


Jan 19, 2013 at 09:02 PM
hiepphotog
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


mawz wrote:
Interesting that the 25/1.4 exists, I wonder if it predates the Yashica partnership as Pentax showed a 24/1.4 around the same time as their partnership with Zeiss broke up.


The Pentax prototype is actually a 20mm 1.4. They began the project around 1976, so I guess it would be after the Zeiss-Pentax relationship.



Jan 19, 2013 at 09:24 PM
Mescalamba
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


ricardovaste wrote:
I'm sure there is a prototype of a Minolta 24-70/2.8 G SSM out there somewhere. Or was it 28-70/2.8 G SSM? I imagine there are many interesting unreleased lenses wondering the earth


Well Im not exactly sure which it was, but I know Sony made final lens out of it, just dont remember which one it was. Probably not 24-70 cause that ended as Zeiss. I think it was 70-300 or 70-400.. Minolta was quite interesting as lens developer.

And Leica and their R 50mm f1.2 (shame Leica stopped making R lens). Im actually wondering why, cause they could simply join Zeiss and make one lens in two or three mounts. Automatic aperture and manual focusing.

Im pretty sure people would buy their lens. Its not like theres lack of interest for M lens even from people that actually dont have M camera.



Jan 19, 2013 at 09:58 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


On p114 of 'Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik III by Carl Zeiss Oberkochen' - which fell open at that exact page just now - is the entry:

'Objectiv Distagon - 1:x 1.4 - f= 25 - Rechng (blank) - Menge (x?) - Nr. von 2.595.321 - Nr. bis (blank) - Jahr (blank) - ]other columns] - Benerkungen Versuch'

For English speakers, 'versuch' translates generally as 'attempt, trial, experiment' - no doubt this is an entry for the prototype lens.

One of the images over at mflenses shows the 25/1.4 to have serial number 2595052. So it appears likely more of them were made...

There is a similar entry for the 18mm a few lines down.

Relatively small numbers of the less desirable; expensive; or special purpose CY lenses were manufactured; only 6,867 21/2.8 Distagons for example, and 7070 of the 100/3.5 Sonnar, for example. How many are still in use, I sometimes wonder - 16-19 years on.

The last 4,000 of the 21mm Distagon were stated as being 'von Japan' in the Remarks column. Mine is from 1994 with no indication of the country of manufacture in the Remarks column.

I am not sure what the fellow should do, but if it found its way into my hands, it would carry on making fine images in the Zeiss tradition. I would lend it to CZ and ask them to do a feature on it with lots of samples of images from it so others could also enjoy it.

Agree, Wayne (of course I do).



Jan 19, 2013 at 10:11 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


'(shame Leica stopped making R lens) Im pretty sure people would buy their lens.'

It seems apparent that CZ are doing very well from the ZE/F lines in terms of sales volumes, though I have never seen any data on this. There is no reason why it would be any different for Leica R, especially the bread and butter lenses, Summicrons and the like.

I think it is a tragedy in the making that this line and the Contax (CY) lenses are getting whittled down in number as time passes...damaged/lost/destroyed/stored in grandad's desk upon his death, and so on.

Many modernistas may even concede these lenses have something special, and in the case of Leica R, imagine modern versions of them (coatings etc.) at ZE prices in Canon mount.



Jan 19, 2013 at 10:21 PM
jotdeh
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


philip_pj wrote:
One of the images over at mflenses shows the 25/1.4 to have serial number 2595052. So it appears likely more of them were made...

Here is the data sheet - it must have evolved into a production lens it seems. CZ 25/1.4



Jan 19, 2013 at 10:42 PM
hiepphotog
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


jotdeh wrote:
Here is the data sheet - it must have evolved into a production lens it seems. CZ 25/1.4


It was very close until one considered the weight (~1kg), the size (126mm x 90mm), and cost of the two Aspherical elements. Optically, this would be much better than the Canon FD 24/1.4 Asph, but it would be unwieldy. Looking at the MTF, one would have to marvel at Leica's ability to produce a "technically" better lens in a much smaller package. Technology has indeed progressed much since then.



Jan 19, 2013 at 11:10 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



sebboh
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


hiepphotog wrote:
It was very close until one considered the weight (~1kg), the size (126mm x 90mm), and cost of the two Aspherical elements. Optically, this would be much better than the Canon FD 24/1.4 Asph, but it would be unwieldy. Looking at the MTF, one would have to marvel at Leica's ability to produce a "technically" better lens in a much smaller package. Technology has indeed progressed much since then.


yeah, those mtfs look pretty d**n good, it's huge though.



Jan 19, 2013 at 11:15 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Mescalamba wrote:
Well Im not exactly sure which it was, but I know Sony made final lens out of it, just dont remember which one it was. Probably not 24-70 cause that ended as Zeiss. I think it was 70-300 or 70-400.. Minolta was quite interesting as lens developer.

And Leica and their R 50mm f1.2 (shame Leica stopped making R lens). Im actually wondering why, cause they could simply join Zeiss and make one lens in two or three mounts. Automatic aperture and manual focusing.

Im pretty sure people would buy their lens. Its not like theres lack of interest for M lens
...Show more

The Sony 50/1.4 is in fact an unreleased Minolta design (it is NOT optically identical to the Minolta version, but does share the optical layou.) The update had been rumoured for a while and was possibly to wear the G label.

The 70-300G also originated in a Minolta design, although that one certainly had Sony design input given the rendering signature.



Jan 19, 2013 at 11:27 PM
brockwhittaker
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Oh, if you guys are interested, there was a thread on /r/photography that he started and answered questions. There are a few photographs of the lenses as well.

http://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/16nyms/my_grandfather_was_a_well_known_optical_designer/



Jan 19, 2013 at 11:39 PM
LightShow
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


A link to the MFlenses topic
http://forum.mflenses.com/distagon-25-1-4-and-a-distagon-18-2-8-t56101.html

So cool to have those in the family.



Jan 20, 2013 at 01:34 AM
rico
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Cool bit CZ history in those two prototypes. The 25 is a bit of a monster, especially by modern standards. The 18 I could see using every day.


Jan 20, 2013 at 07:40 AM
Dudewithoutape
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Looking at the serial numbers in the imgur photos, suggests the 180 2.8, is extremely early, possibly a pre-production lens and the 35 2.8 was a late prototype. I'm no specialist, just my 2 cents. The 35 1.4 (even the 50 1.4) is an early production number too, but within limits to the public.


Jan 20, 2013 at 08:20 AM
MaxiKana
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Dudewithoutape wrote:
Looking at the serial numbers in the imgur photos, suggests the 180 2.8, is extremely early, possibly a pre-production lens and the 35 2.8 was a late prototype. I'm no specialist, just my 2 cents. The 35 1.4 (even the 50 1.4) is an early production number too, but within limits to the public.


I'm guessing since these belonged to Glatzel that the lenses are as close to production quality as possible. They were his personal lenses, after all.



Jan 20, 2013 at 10:40 AM
crazeazn
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


that is super neat.


Jan 20, 2013 at 04:11 PM
Blackout
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


In this video from Photokina 2012, Michael Schiehlen from Zeiss indicates that a wide angle lens will be part of their new "no compromise" line of lenses for Canon and Nikon DSLRs, from which we only know the 55/1.4 for now. Probably some kind of refreshed CY 25/1.4.


Jan 20, 2013 at 07:15 PM
hiepphotog
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · Zeiss Prototype lenses reappear


Thank you for the video. This definitely confirmed it, a trio of 55, 85 and a WA 1.4 (most likely to be around 24-28 since the 35/1.4 is out quite recently). Now I know for sure to save up my money for the WA.


Jan 20, 2013 at 07:23 PM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password