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Archive 2013 · Flagship no more ?
  
 
PetKal
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p.1 #1 · Flagship no more ?


Someone sent me this link to an article by A. Morris where he compares his 800L lens to the new 600 f/4 IS MkII which he seems to have ordered.

I do not follow the man's blog, but based on the article it would appear that he's about to dump his beloved 800L in favour of the "latest and the greatest" 600 II.

Perhaps not by sheer coincidence, there has been a mini "flood" of second hand 800L sales advertised lately on the FM B&S board, as well as elsewhere. It is possible that a number of those 800L sellers are going for 600 II too.

A positive net effect of all this is that some wildlife photographers should be able to purchase used 800L lenses for a favourable price, considering that not long ago the new lens price was close to $14,000.

As they used to say in Italy some 2000 years ago, sic transit gloria mundi.



Jan 19, 2013 at 11:28 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #2 · Flagship no more ?


It seems top shelf gear depreciates steeply.


Jan 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM
15Bit
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p.1 #3 · Flagship no more ?


Paul Mo wrote:
It seems top shelf gear depreciates steeply.


For the depreciation on an 800L you could probably buy all the camera equipment i own



Jan 19, 2013 at 12:09 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #4 · Flagship no more ?


They often do depreciate quickly because of a limited demand. Lenses such as 400 DO, 400 f/2.8 IS MkI and 600 f/4 IS MkI are further examples for that.
However, certain high-end used items have maintained their prices very well, such as 500 f/4 IS MkI due to its high reputation, broad application scope, relative affordability and the resulting demand for it.

Edited on Jan 19, 2013 at 12:28 PM · View previous versions



Jan 19, 2013 at 12:13 PM
PeaktoPeek
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p.1 #5 · Flagship no more ?


Every day I am so happy that I have no interest in bird photography -- those lenses cost more $ than my car is worth. Not counting the body, etc. Ouch. I'll stick to landscapes...
Paul



Jan 19, 2013 at 12:13 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #6 · Flagship no more ?


PeaktoPeek wrote:
Every day I am so happy that I have no interest in bird photography -- those lenses cost more $ than my car is worth. Not counting the body, etc. Ouch. I'll stick to landscapes...
Paul


A new top-of-the-line bird photography setup, e.g. 800L + 1DX, will set you back by close to $20,000.

However, it is also possible to do fine bird photography using a setup which costs 10% of that, such as 1DMkIII + 400 f/5.6.



Jan 19, 2013 at 12:39 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #7 · Flagship no more ?


A. Morris do it every time a new super tele lens arrives Last time he sold another tele lens because the 800 lens was so good


Jan 19, 2013 at 12:47 PM
mitesh
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p.1 #8 · Flagship no more ?


There have been threads that discussed/debated the merits of a 600/4 mkII + 1.4x mkIII versus an 800L, and several who have used both setups were of the opinion that the 600 + 1.4 provides IQ and AF ability that rivals or matches a bare 800. The added flexibility of having 600mm and f/4 (neither of which 800L can do) leaves me to wonder what the business case is for purchasing 800L (for those of us who are not "collectors"... *ahem*). I am genuinely interested because I always have a 1.4 tacked onto my 600 mkI, and have considered moving to 800L.

I readily admit that used 800s can be had for less than the 600, but I imagine that almost anyone who can afford an 800 can also afford a few more Benjamins for the 600.




Jan 19, 2013 at 01:26 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #9 · Flagship no more ?


Lars Johnsson wrote:
A. Morris do it every time a new super tele lens arrives Last time he sold another tele lens because the 800 lens was so good


We often spend our time, energy and $$ doing this.



Jan 19, 2013 at 01:40 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #10 · Flagship no more ?


mitesh wrote:
There have been threads that discussed/debated the merits of a 600/4 mkII + 1.4x mkIII versus an 800L, and several who have used both setups were of the opinion that the 600 + 1.4 provides IQ and AF ability that rivals or matches a bare 800.


Mitesh, can you name two people who have used both extensively ?



Jan 19, 2013 at 01:44 PM
 

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alundeb
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p.1 #11 · Flagship no more ?


Lars Johnsson wrote:
A. Morris do it every time a new super tele lens arrives Last time he sold another tele lens because the 800 lens was so good


There is a tendency that new lenses get to the market because they offer some kind of improvement. Hardly a surprise

But it really cannot be true that the Flagship is dethroned, because the opinion here in this forum decided at the announcement time of the new 600 that it could not happen



Jan 19, 2013 at 02:09 PM
Tim Kuhn
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p.1 #12 · Flagship no more ?


I read AM's article with great interest when it came out. He does indeed have a reputation for pumping the latest from Canon but I also don't think he is alone in doing this

The article is interesting and I believe for the most quite part factual. The 800 for some is a highly specialized lens and quite difficult for the unskilled to handle. Just look at the results from different photographers using the 800. I do think the article has some glaring oversights and even some contradictory statements. In the all exalted sharpness test, once again a FLAT, 2 dimensional, practically speaking, subject is used. This is great if one is photograph posters. What that doesn't tell you is how long sharp focus took to lock on or anything else mildly practical. My favorite section of the review is the ole "600 + 2x" section. Now we are entering the point of uber long lenses. The 600 = 2x gives the overpowering extra 80mm when talking within the 1100-1200mm range, a pretty insignificant amount, 6.66% of 1200. Followed by, " I am pretty sure that Arash, with his great concern for extremely sharp fine detail, would rarely if ever use the 2X III TC with his 600II" pretty much giving the long reach advantage to the 800 and that is the point of the 800, reach. Also with all the talk of using TC's on the 600 is there ever any empirical evidence offered for focus speed. Is AF speed all that important? For some no, but for others it is vital.

I'm not knocking the 600 in anyway, it is a tremendous lens. I'm just pointing out what to me are some interesting omissions to the article.

Tim



Jan 19, 2013 at 03:47 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #13 · Flagship no more ?


PetKal wrote:
We often spend our time, energy and $$ doing this.


;-)



Jan 19, 2013 at 04:57 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #14 · Flagship no more ?


alundeb wrote:
There is a tendency that new lenses get to the market because they offer some kind of improvement. Hardly a surprise

But it really cannot be true that the Flagship is dethroned, because the opinion here in this forum decided at the announcement time of the new 600 that it could not happen


Yes they offer some kind of improvement. But against the older lenses in their focal lenght Not against lenses that are a lot longer or shorter



Jan 19, 2013 at 05:10 PM
Tim Kuhn
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p.1 #15 · Flagship no more ?


Lars Johnsson wrote:
Yes they offer some kind of improvement. But against the older lenses in their focal lenght Not against lenses that are a lot longer or shorter


+1

Tim



Jan 19, 2013 at 05:14 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #16 · Flagship no more ?


I get it. It is funny that Morris' preferred focal length for bird photos always coincides with the latest Canon release.

This is an exception to the rule then, as the 600 mm + 1.4 TC will replace his 800mm, and they are practically the same focal length.




Jan 19, 2013 at 05:20 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #17 · Flagship no more ?


alundeb wrote:
I get it. It is funny that Morris' preferred focal length for bird photos always coincides with the latest Canon release.

This is an exception to the rule then, as the 600 mm + 1.4 TC will replace his 800mm, and they are practically the same focal length.



When adding a TC the improvement suddenly goes away It's not like the new 600 is so much better than the other super teles that you can add TC;s and it will still having better IQ and faster AF.
Also remember that the 800 is a rather new lens and not like the old 500 or 600 lenses. It also have two fluorite glass like the new super teles. And 4 stop IS



Jan 19, 2013 at 05:26 PM
Matt Howell
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p.1 #18 · Flagship no more ?


Arthur Morris proves the real money to be made in photography is not in photography itself, but in selling the idea of photography to a bunch of amateurs.



Jan 19, 2013 at 05:38 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #19 · Flagship no more ?


Lars Johnsson wrote:
It's not like the new 600 is so much better than the other super teles that you can add TC;s and it will still having better IQ and faster AF.


So when a handful independent photographers report that the 600 L IS II actually is that good, can it all be explained by the "latest and greatest" effect?



Jan 19, 2013 at 05:46 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #20 · Flagship no more ?


alundeb wrote:
So when a handful independent photographers report that the 600 L IS II actually is that good, can it all be explained by the "latest and greatest" effect?


I'm sure there is a handful of photographers that don't think so also.........



Jan 19, 2013 at 05:55 PM
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