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Archive 2013 · Canon 7D pixel density
  
 
gome1122
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 7D pixel density


I have a Canon 7D and I've been noticing , it doesn't have the greatest sensor. I think that it is the pixel density of the camera. It's a bit too high. It causes lots of unwanted noise and it isn't ideal for cropping. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Is it just me?


Jan 15, 2013 at 12:04 AM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 7D pixel density


I think it's just you. Many FM members have the 7D, and make wonderful cropped shots of a variety of subjects, especially birds in flight.


Jan 15, 2013 at 12:07 AM
skycolt
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 7D pixel density


I also think it's too high. Maybe none my lens have such high resolution power. I'll know if it's true very soon.


Jan 15, 2013 at 12:12 AM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 7D pixel density


Heavy cropping at ISO 800 and up will be tricky.

I've won awards with crops at ISo 100.



Jan 15, 2013 at 12:51 AM
eskimochaos
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 7D pixel density


You're a few too many years short for that boat.

I hated it when I had the 7D. Unnecessary waste of time in PP for decent images.



Jan 15, 2013 at 12:56 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 7D pixel density


Yeah, it is a terrible camera. So noisy and takes so much post-processing.






  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    375mm    f/8.0    1/350s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Jan 15, 2013 at 01:01 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 7D pixel density


This is a heavily discussed and contentious subject so don't be surprised at a bit of sniping. I tend to agree with you and think the 7D would have made a fine 12 MP camera. It has been a number of years now and Canon has yet to release a higher density APS C sensor. OTOH the 7D is a very nice body and with skilled use can produce some very nice images.

I would suggest shooting raw and becoming experienced at post processing with a program like Lightroom which handles sharpening and noise reduction well. Others prefer 3rd party noise plug-ins. I tend not to crop too much other than for horizon straightening or other aesthetics figuring that a 1.6 crop is pretty severe to begin with. Then I tend to bicubic reduce/sharper to 12 MP as a last step.

Understand that I tend to use my 7D almost exclusively with my 100-400 so I'm usually pushing ISO and shutter speed which don't do the 7D's tiny pixels any favors. I may be biased a bit.

Edit: And Imagemaster, above, is a prime example of someone who knows how to get the most out of this camera!



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:17 AM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 7D pixel density


There is nothing that says a 12mp camera would have better noise. It would just have less pixels.


Jan 15, 2013 at 01:23 AM
gome1122
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 7D pixel density


RobDickinson wrote:
Heavy cropping at ISO 800 and up will be tricky.

I've won awards with crops at ISo 100.

Yeah, it can be a problem when I use it for indoor sports. I've only had it in the winter so I haven't been able to use it outside at lower ISO



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:36 AM
gome1122
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 7D pixel density


Imagemaster wrote:
Yeah, it is a terrible camera. So noisy and takes so much post-processing.


As RobDickinson said, it is good at anything below ISO 800. But above that, not as good.



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:38 AM
 

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RobDickinson
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 7D pixel density


gome1122 wrote:
As RobDickinson said, it is good at anything below ISO 800. But above that, not as good.



Not so good if you want to crop further. I think its fine as a whole image to 3200/6400.



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:48 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 7D pixel density


RobDickinson wrote:
There is nothing that says a 12mp camera would have better noise. It would just have less pixels.


My 40D has less noise and sharper pixels than my 7D until the ISO gets above 1600. While improvements have been made in photo efficiency, noise has still been going up with higher density sensors. This can be ameliorated by image reduction. I find I can enjoy well captured 7D images at 100% if I reduce it to 12 MP, like I can with full resolution 5D# images. I think that if Canon had put the technology of their latest APS C sensor into a 12 MP sensor it would produce files that are as clean and easy to work with as 5D files are. Just my opinion.


Edited on Jan 15, 2013 at 01:57 AM · View previous versions



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:54 AM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 7D pixel density


Jeff Nolten wrote:
My 40D has less noise and sharper pixels than my 7D until the ISO gets above 1600.


I doubt it, not if they are the same dimensions. Both viewed 100% probably true but the 7d has about 80%more pixels.



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:56 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 7D pixel density


Yes I know, Don't view 7D images 100%. But then then isn't that wasted resolution? 12 MP is approximate, I usually reduce to 5Dc pixel width since that size sticks in my brain and those pixel dimensions seem to be sufficient for my needs. With 5D2 files I find I can crop to 5Dc size without adverse effect - if I've done my job correctly.


Jan 15, 2013 at 02:05 AM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 7D pixel density


gome1122 wrote:
I think that it is the pixel density of the camera. It's a bit too high.


I actually think the 7D has too few pixels, I wish there were more so I can retire my optical TCs.



Jan 15, 2013 at 02:10 AM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 7D pixel density


Imagemaster wrote:
Yeah, it is a terrible camera. So noisy and takes so much post-processing.




Excellent work as usual, Tony!



Jan 15, 2013 at 02:11 AM
eskimochaos
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 7D pixel density


That's a fantastic web-sized picture.


Jan 15, 2013 at 02:16 AM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 7D pixel density


Jeff Nolten wrote:
Yes I know, Don't view 7D images 100%. But then then isn't that wasted resolution?


No. You get the extra resolution at low ISO, and better overall noise at high ISO.

If canon made the 7d 12mp you would get pretty much the same results at ISO 3200 (actually probably poorer) yet not have the additional pixels at ISO 100.

What matters, ultimately, is the overall efficiency of the sensor.



Jan 15, 2013 at 02:17 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 7D pixel density


Liquidstone wrote:
I actually think the 7D has too few pixels, I wish there were more so I can retire my optical TCs.


Romy, weren't you very skeptical of the 7D when you first worked with it?

Actually I'm waiting for f8 autofocus on the 5D3 so I can put an optical TC on my 100-400 and retire my 7D. I certainly intend on doing some testing first.

RobDickinson wrote:
No. You get the extra resolution at low ISO, and better overall noise at high ISO.

If canon made the 7d 12mp you would get pretty much the same results at ISO 3200 (actually probably poorer) yet not have the additional pixels at ISO 100.

What matters, ultimately, is the overall efficiency of the sensor.


I agree with your last sentence and if you compare the 40D with the 7D using DxO's noise graphs the two cameras are virtually identical with the print (full sensor) setting but the 40D is better at the screen (pixel level) setting. I agree the 7D is better at higher ISOs, that is where the technological gains have been made. It also has better print level dynamic range.

For my use transitioning my 100-400 from the 40D to the 7D and using them equivalently I found more resolution and more noise to go with it. With diligent work and practice I've been able to over come much of that with post processing. But I'm not up to Imagemaster's level yet. The 7D is a much nicer body to use, it just takes more work to get the best out of it.


Edited on Jan 15, 2013 at 02:38 AM · View previous versions



Jan 15, 2013 at 02:19 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 7D pixel density


eskimochaos wrote:
That's a fantastic web-sized picture.


It looks even better as a 16x20 print.



Jan 15, 2013 at 02:29 AM
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