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Archive 2013 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras ...
  
 
retrocyclist
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


Dear all,

I have to make a confession.

I have been doing all sorts of wrong things with my Nikon D600, like walking around, taking casual shots with the wrong lenses, without a tripod, without watching the histogram - and even shooting jpeg, medium quality

Funny thing is that, despite this, I have been completely overwhelmed about the image quality. And I noticed a few things which were new to me, and (as far as I can find out) are new to the collected Internet wisdom on these cameras.

For example, you can push shadows an extra couple of steps even from your jpeg pictures. This is a jpg straight out of the camera, Nikon D600, 50 mm f/1,8 Ai-S pancake lens shot in A mode @ f/2,8.
Matrix metering, no exposure compensation
Camera chose 1/3200 s and ISO 100. ADL set to Auto, picture control Standard, Saturation +1

The picture was taken in Stockholm, September 2012, afternoon light with strong backlight and very harsh contrasts which is the reason that it came out a little underexposed. (Or maybe the exposure is fine, this depends on what you want - we cannot allow histograms to decide our exposures, can we?)







This is the same jpeg picture 12 seconds later, pushing shadows:









To cover it all I started a blog called Nikonsystem - I am trying to cover this, and a lot more than I can ever write in a forum on FM and besides, the blog allowed me to post a few pictures.

This is not commercial, but just written for my own fun and I will add at least a handful of more posts. So, if anyone is interested the blog can be found here: http://nikonsystem.blogspot.com

My hope is to start a discussion here at FM, and I believe it could be interesting. I know there are many qualified persons among you readers out there - please fill in, agree, protest or just have your say. But most of all, I would be interested if you test the same things on your cameras, with your lenses, your exposure, your settings and your post-processing software!

Please note that this is just a start. I am planning on writing a lot more about this, and also other aspects of the D600 (+ D800) jpeg capabilities.

So much has happened with these latest FX cameras, the D800 and D600, that it might be time to completely reconsider how you use your camera.

Maybe

Gabriel

Edited on Jan 15, 2013 at 02:26 PM · View previous versions



Jan 14, 2013 at 09:22 PM
Hardcore
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


I don't really know what your trying to accomplish here. Is the first shot the RAW file and second one the JPEG?

Did you push the shadows on the RAW at all? It doesn't look like it. If your trying to say that JPEG has more dynamic range than RAW, then I totally disagree.

If your trying to say that an unprocessed RAW image has less dynamic range than a jpeg with active D-lighting on, then I agree.... unless you process the RAW file in which case it will always have more potential than a jpeg.

The jpeg output from the d600 and d800 is very very good, I agree, but it doesn't hold up against a 14 bit RAW.



Jan 14, 2013 at 09:46 PM
fsiagian
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


I think both are JPGs. The first one is SOOC and the second one after pushing the shadow.


Jan 14, 2013 at 10:01 PM
DGC1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


Hardcore wrote:
I don't really know what your trying to accomplish here. Is the first shot the RAW file and second one the JPEG?

Did you push the shadows on the RAW at all? It doesn't look like it. If your trying to say that JPEG has more dynamic range than RAW, then I totally disagree.

If your trying to say that an unprocessed RAW image has less dynamic range than a jpeg with active D-lighting on, then I agree.... unless you process the RAW file in which case it will always have more potential than a jpeg.

The jpeg output from the d600 and
...Show more

If you read the post, it clearly states that the images are JPEG's. The first is straight from the camera and the second has been post processed. I believe his point is well illustrated if you take the time to look at the images and notice the details he pulled out of the shadows. Pretty impressive to me.



Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


The shadows in JPEGs are implicitly clipped due to the tonal limitations of 8-bit encoding, along with the curve applied by the camera's JPEG engine and its user-assigned tonal attributes. That will make pushed JPEGs appear cleaner than the equivalent raw in some cases, the same as I can make a raw image appear cleaner by raising the black level.


Jan 14, 2013 at 10:29 PM
 

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Hardcore
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


DGC1 wrote:
If you read the post, it clearly states that the images are JPEG's. The first is straight from the camera and the second has been post processed. I believe his point is well illustrated if you take the time to look at the images and notice the details he pulled out of the shadows. Pretty impressive to me.


Yes, impressive, but that is not exactly what the OP was referring to. He said in his post that Jpegs have greater latitude than RAW. Something that is wrong.



Jan 14, 2013 at 10:34 PM
fsiagian
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


The title is not finished. There is this sentence under the title:

"p.1 #1 Nikon D600 jpegs have greater latitude than raw from many other cameras"



Jan 14, 2013 at 10:37 PM
Hardcore
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


Ohh Duh! Okay, sorry for my inability to read! Apologies to OP!


Jan 14, 2013 at 10:40 PM
okafoja
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


The original image is a piece of cake for D600 to push shadows. Even Canon 5DII can do that.


Jan 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM
retrocyclist
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw


As you have noted, these are both jpegs. The first is a jpeg 'SOOC', the second is the same jpeg, tweaked by pushing shadows. I will get back to what software I used.

I haven't found though that this would be possible in, for example, a Canon 5D MkII.
So far I have tested jpegs from the following cameras
Nikon D80
Nikon D90
Nikon D7000
Nikon D700
Nikon D800
Nikon D600
Canon 5D MkIII
Canon 6D

I have only found two cameras with jpegs capable of doing this - the Nikon D600 and D800.

The D7000 does something similar, but adds much more noise in the process.
From what I can see, files from both the Canons or the D700 are basically dead in the shadows - there is not much more information to show even if you pull the slider, and when pulling the slider, there is soon too much noise - sort of, noise takes over very quickly.

Apparently, the jpegs both have to be exceptionally clean, and they have to contain enough detail. And, as I said, I have only found the D600 and D800 jpegs to be able to do this.

From what I can see, despite the limitations inherent in all jpegs, all jpegs are not created equal... to illustrate this point i posted a graph showing different jpeg dynamic range from different cameras on the blog post I started, http://nikonsystem.blogspot.com/ - please take a look if you find this interesting.

I also changed the title of the thread to the more befitting 'D600 has greater dynamic range in jpg than other cameras do in raw''. But it may be difficult for a somewhat new subject like this one to be taken seriously. I guess, by having the word 'jpeg' in the title, many serious photographers will just ignore the post? Any suggestions?

I will make new additions to the blog later this week and try to get back to update this thread from time to time.

Best, Gabriel



Jan 15, 2013 at 04:00 PM





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