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Archive 2013 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00
  
 
jcolwell
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


The recent "Service Life" thread got me thinking...

"Service Life" http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1181905

I did a bit of detective work at CPS Canada, and produced a pre-release beta version of a Canon Lens Service Database that I'll work on over the next few months.

Here's two graphs of service status for a variety of Canon prime lenses, mostly L-series and TS-E, based on CPS Canada service information. The first graph shows the lenses that are currently serviced by CPS Canada, plotted as unfilled-circle symbols with the year the lens was introduced on the horizontal axis and lens focal length, f (mm), on the vertical axis. The second graph uses a similar format with filled triangle symbols to show lenses not serviced by CPS Canada, as defined by their absence from the CPS Canada list of lenses serviced. The 'year introduced' data are from the online Canon EF Museum 'year marketed' data. I also have preliminary data for zoom lenses, but I don't plan to tidy it up for show, at this time.

Obviously, there is no simple relationship between the year of introduction and the year that service is no longer available. In some cases, a pro lens is dropped from the service list some years after it's been replaced , but in other cases, the older versions of pro lenses are still serviced long after their replacements were introduced. I'll identify specific lenses in future releases, once more data has been obtained, including 'year discontinued' data, as mentioned by FM member big country in the "Service Life" thread link shown above.

The most recently introduced lenses that are no longer serviced are the EF 400/2.8L II (1996) and EF 500/4.5L (1992). The oldest lenses that are still serviced are EF 15/2.8 FE (1987), and (all from 1991) EF 14/2.8L, TS-E 24/3.5L, TS-E 45/2.8, and TS-E 90/2.8.

Of course, the data shown here does not include many excellent EF non-L lenses that are widely used, such as the 50/1.4 and 85/1.8. I've asked Canon Canada if they can share the list of all currently serviced lenses with me, but I'd say that getting it is 50/50, at best. Also, I haven't included the EF 1200/5.6L (1993, not serviced) lens in the database, for reasons related to graph scale.

I plan to publish regular updates for Canon prime and zoom lenses on my web site, along with the Lens Price Database, Lens$db. Maybe it'll include cameras, too... I'll post a dedicated FM thread when version v.01 is ready. It'll take a while, and so don't hold your breath.

In the meantime, I'd be happy to log "year discontinued" and "no longer serviced" status for any Canon lenses and DSLR cameras, as long as it's from a reliable source, not "I think I heard...". Please send such info, including a brief description of the source, to me by PM or email to the Lens$db site.

Cheers, Jim

P.S. I've already included data from an FM thread in this data. The current CPS Canada service list (dated 2012-01-25) includes the 85/1.2L (1989) in its list of serviced lenses, but John Meloy (johnnydanger) recently noted that it's no longer serviced, http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1171870/0#11171023.







Jan 14, 2013 at 08:26 PM
burningheart
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Thanks Jim



Jan 14, 2013 at 10:11 PM
big country
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Per Chuck Westfall on the DWF:

"Service life is expected to last at least 7 years from the end of sales..."



Jan 14, 2013 at 10:21 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


The 85/1.2L Mk II came out in March 2006 (EF Museum "marketed" date) and service on the Mk I ended Nov 2012, 6.5 years later (see johnnydanger CPS info).

The best I can do now is to assume that the discontinued date for an early version is equal to the date at which its replacement version was introduced. For example, the EF 14/2.8 Mk II was marketed in 2007, and so I assume the EF 14/2.8L was discontinued in 2007. Using this approach with the 23 lenses for which I have replacement dates, the shortest fuses are on the EF 24/1.4L (now at 5 years since replacement) and TS-E 24/3.5L (4 years).

The EF 50/1.0L and 200/1.8L are exceptions, because the EF 50/1.2L and 200/2L IS came out many years after the early versions were discontinued, and they really aren't replacements anyway, right?

It's interesting to note that all three vesrions of 1.4x and 2x Extenders are still serviced, even though it's 12 years since the Mk II's came out.

Hopefully, I can get more reliable data on discontinued dates, and we'll figure out what's really going on.

P.S. Robert, you're welcome.



Jan 15, 2013 at 01:32 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


I'm sure the service life is different in different countries and continents also. Canon Service Center here in Bangkok still service the 85/1,2. And the Service Center in Sweden also did service it when the johnnydanger thread was posted.


Jan 15, 2013 at 03:35 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


I'm a Platinum member at Canon CPS. When I log in to my account at CPS. I have to register all my cameras and lenses there. After each of them Canon have a little box. If the box is ticked, the camera or lens is supported from CPS. And there is a repair form that I can download and fill if I need repair or service of that camera/lens. If it's not supported anymore the box is NOT ticked and it say like this,

"Unfortunately Canon is not able to provide repair within the CPS stated turnaround on some of its older and discontinued models due to the difficulty in sourcing parts. Please be aware that from time-to-time items will be removed from the CPS supported list; this may affect your CPS membership. However, you can still associate these products with your accounts and most are repairable under non-CPS service turnaround times, please speak to your local repair centre for further details."

So it's very easy to check and see what lenses Canon will repair or service. And they still repair the 85/1,2 and all the other Canon cameras/lenses that I have in my profile.

Is it similar for you in Canada, Jim



Jan 15, 2013 at 04:05 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Hi Lars,

CPS Canada is similar but different. All of my cameras and L-lenses are registered, but the process for registering gear only allows you to select from the list of items currently supported.

I hope to provide an interim update in a few weeks, as the current CPS Canada repair list is out of date. It's almost a year old (2012-01-25), and doesn't have important new lenses that were released in 2012. The current list includes support for the 85/1.2L, which is discontinued for CPS US. I haven't received a notification from CPS Canada about the 85/1.2L, and so it should be still serviced here. It'll be interesting to see what the next update to the CPS Canada service list includes, and does not include. This means it's important to track both discontinued notices and source countries for those notices.

The list of supported gear for registering new equipment is updated in "real time", and so I have my new 24-70/2.7L II and 600EX-RT registered; however, they aren't identified in the current (old) service list.


Jim



Jan 15, 2013 at 12:12 PM
RonR2
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Maybe this will clarify the question that started this thread.

This is the reply that I received on the Canon forum site:
Attempted to copy and paste - my computer and photo skills are at the same level.

Product Expert Tim

Re: Repair and parts availability for the version 1 big guns?
[ Edited ] .

I asked specifically for the service life of the 300mm F2.8 V-1, 400mm F2.8 V-1, the 500mm F4 V1 and the 600mm F4 v-1.

Answered by Tim from Canon - (don't know who Tim is or his job title other then product expert).
Did I ask the right question in the wrong way?


....
‎01-09-2013 07:59 PM - edited ‎01-09-2013 08:31 PM



Ronr2,

All of the lenses you mention are no longer able to be repaired except for the EF 500 F/4L IS USM lens. The others are all out of service life.



We do not have a public database which details how long parts in inventory will be available. We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause you.



Jan 15, 2013 at 12:36 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Hi RonR2,

There seems to be some confusion about exactly which lenses are in play.

1. Here's what you said in the first thread, "Service Life":

I understand that Canon's service life of the 300mm IS F2.8 and the 400mm IS F2.8 V-1 has already expired

2. Here's what you said in your email to Canon, as shown in this thread immediately above:

I asked specifically for the service life of the 300mm F2.8 V-1, 400mm F2.8 V-1, the 500mm F4 V1 and the 600mm F4 v-1.

The first (or V-1) versions of the 300/2.8L, 400/2.8L, and 600/4L lenses you mention in (2) are all non-IS lenses that were replaced 14, 17, and 14 years ago, respectively. The first (V1) version of the "500mm F4 V1" is IS, because the previous and first version of the 500L was the non-IS f/4.5 lens - no ambiguity, not f/4.

Regardless, I'm on the case to better define what's up with Canon service life. I can assure you that the MK I versions of the 300/2.8L IS, 400/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, and 600/4L IS are still serviced, and will be for five to seven more years, give or take.

Jim



Jan 15, 2013 at 12:56 PM
NormanPCN
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


I think "serviceable" can be quite variable based on parts. Canon will make parts and warehouse them expecting the supply to last a certain amount of time. Different parts will deplete at different rates. Therefore, I can see two broken lenses where one cannot be fixed and yet another can based on what broke.


Jan 15, 2013 at 04:15 PM
 

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jcolwell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


NormanPCN wrote:
I think "serviceable" can be quite variable based on parts. Canon will make parts and warehouse them expecting the supply to last a certain amount of time. Different parts will deplete at different rates. Therefore, I can see two broken lenses where one cannot be fixed and yet another can based on what broke.


That's very true. OTOH, Canon has a policy that defines which lenses that they will accept for repair work in their service centres, and which lenses they will not service, regardless of the parts supply. Of course, the lack of parts has to be one of the main drivers, but not the only one; you should also consider employee training, special tools, and reduction in reliability over time. It's the Canon lens repair policy that I'm talking about.



Jan 15, 2013 at 04:26 PM
Andrew J
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


1993 the 400/5.6L was introduced and still serviceable clearly since it's still being made.


Jan 16, 2013 at 03:10 AM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


For what it's worth....

A Canadian friend of mine sent his 1D2 "no longer serviced by Canon" directly to Canon Japan - and they had no problem repairing it.






Jan 16, 2013 at 05:26 AM
dolina
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


big country wrote:
Per Chuck Westfall on the DWF:

"Service life is expected to last at least 7 years from the end of sales..."


I think it is conditional on the popularity of the lens. The 200/1.8 end of sales was declared in 2004 and yet it has been reported earlier than 2011 that Canon will not service it no more.

Some have speculated that only 8,500 copies were made thus contributing to the rather short service life.

To get passed this "problem" I see these "solutions".

1) Sell working gear by the end of the 7 years from the end of sales
2) Stockpile spare parts when available for potential repair jobs
3) Do not use them, thus preserving functionality for the rest of time



Jan 16, 2013 at 07:01 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Andrew J wrote:
1993 the 400/5.6L was introduced and still serviceable clearly since it's still being made.


Yes, but it's not on the CPS Canada list. So far, that's all I have to work with.

OTOH, that's a good point. I can assume that all currently available lenses are serviced, and then try to determine when they get knocked off the Canon list (as opposed to the CPS list).



Jan 16, 2013 at 11:39 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


dolina wrote:
...1) Sell working gear by the end of the 7 years from the end of sales


It's too late for my 200/1.8L



Jan 16, 2013 at 11:41 AM
dolina
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


jcolwell wrote:
It's too late for my 200/1.8L

Because of the 7 years or the non-functioning part?



Jan 16, 2013 at 01:46 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


The 7 years - it works just fine, thanks.


Jan 16, 2013 at 01:56 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Jim,
Thanks for the work in trying to dig data out from an uncooperative source. As a former professional statistician, I have some idea of how difficult this can be. Looking at your alpha version chart, one of the first things that jumps out is that it is hard to tell what lens is represented by what marker. Obviously lenses like 600mm and 800mm are easy but looking at the 4 lens cluster at about 1991, Im guessing these are some of the classic primes (like the 135L). A tabular display (spreadsheet) of lens name by date (introduction and if applicable service stop) to accompany the charts would be quite useful. (Id be more than willing to help build it if you want some help.)

Looking at the 1991? cluster, it seems clear that 11 or so years later these are all still serviceable at least at CPS Canada. Have any of these lenses been discontinued? One interesting observation is that based on this data focal lengths greater than or equal to 200mm are at greater risk of having service discontinued. Were looking at 2 each 200mm, 300mm, and 400mm. This is intriguing and suggests a couple of hypothesis: (1) the fewer the copies made, the sooner support will be dropped, and/or (2) something about telephotos make them harder to maintain.

Nice work and much appreciated by those of who live on used lenses.

Robert



Jan 16, 2013 at 06:07 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon Lens Service Database, v.00


Robert,

Thanks. This 'pre-release' isn't meant to portray the actual utility of the database, rather it's intended to get the discussion going. Especially with respect to having people send in 'official' notices of (i) when individual lenses are discontinued from production/sales, and (ii) when they are discontinued from service.

The 'version 1' release will be in spreadsheet form, with both data (including lens names) and figures. The Lens Service Database (LSD)* uses the same lenses as Lens$db. I already have all of the prime and L-zoom lens names, introduction dates, replacement dates, and a few preliminary derived parameters defined. I've attached a screen capture of the start of the primes page, below.

So far, the "serviced" (Y/N) parameter is only defined by the CPS Canada list of eligible lenses (Y), and those not on the list that have been 'replaced' by more modern versions (N). As discussed earlier in this thread, I'll assume that lenses currently available for purchase are also accepted for service. That'll put a lot more 'Y' values in the database. The trick will be to determine when a 'Y' changes to a 'N'.

Cheers, Jim

* interesting acronym... I'm sure that at least some of the FM contributors are on it, at least some of the time...








Jan 16, 2013 at 06:44 PM
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