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1.3 Crop

rprouty
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p.1 #1 · 1.3 Crop

Did the 1.3 crop die when the 1DMIV was discontinued?
If this has been discussed before please disregard this post.

Thanks

Rod

Jan 10, 2013 at 04:08 PM

convergent
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p.1 #2 · 1.3 Crop

Canon has no 1.3 crop bodies on the market currently, but that doesn't mean they won't in the future. There has been speculation of a 7D2 picking up that sensor... or maybe even a 3D or something. Time will tell.

Jan 10, 2013 at 04:12 PM

ggreene
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p.1 #3 · 1.3 Crop

I just don't think that Canon wants another production line for 1.3x crop sensors.

Jan 10, 2013 at 05:15 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · 1.3 Crop

I think it has been discussed before, but that's OK.

convergent wrote:
... Time will tell.

+1

Jan 10, 2013 at 05:16 PM

SoundHound
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p.1 #5 · 1.3 Crop

YES. The old excuse was that 1.3x was the biggest single "Fab" sensor they could make and that they had to use two wafers for FF. But, now with evolving technology and lots of medium priced FF sensors, I believe that Canon can do single Fab and wish to avoiid another format. Maybe they will just improve their 1.6 APSC sensors and put one in a !DXc body??

Jan 10, 2013 at 05:34 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #6 · 1.3 Crop

rprouty wrote:
Did the 1.3 crop die when the 1DMIV was discontinued?
If this has been discussed before please disregard this post.

Thanks

Rod

Alas it appears so, but they never said they have killed it off officially, never to be seen again. SO maybe it might live on again, but I somehow doubt it.

Jan 10, 2013 at 10:19 PM

RobDickinson
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p.1 #7 · 1.3 Crop

I think the 1dx has shown the manufacturing and performance issues are sorted.

aps-h is as good as dead.

Jan 10, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Gunzorro
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p.1 #8 · 1.3 Crop

Rob -- I disagree, and I'll tell you why (from a non-technician).

I think Canon is starting to get the first feedback from several market segments that could make it necessary to have dual 1D series bodies again in the near future. The primary reason is high MP demand to counter the new full frame Nikon bodies, somewhere in the 35-45MP range. High FPS, fast AF, and large shot buffer takes a lot of computing power in-camera, and I think these features would have to be too limited in a class leading high MP model. That won't cut it for sports, birds, or even fashion shoots.

Canon was right earlier that it was easier to get more from less, by using a high quality smaller sensor. APS-H is a great compromise in quality/speed between the crop and full frame, and why it lasted so long. Plus many people enjoy a camera that crops the "worst" imaging areas out of the picture frame.

I can imagine Canon offering a 24MP APS-H "sports" model, and a 45MP full frame "studio" model along the lines that they used to.

The 1DX is a great camera, but there is intense demand for a higher MP, higher DR camera that the 1DX can't fulfill.

So, like Canon, never say never!

Jan 10, 2013 at 10:42 PM

RobDickinson
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p.1 #9 · 1.3 Crop

I dont disagree with the need for dual 1 series bodies.

But the 1dx has proved superbly capable of handling anything you would shoot with an aps-h body.

Its by far the best all round pro body made, aps-h would impact its low light performance for no practical benefit.

Jan 10, 2013 at 11:06 PM

Gunzorro
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p.1 #10 · 1.3 Crop

I suppose we'll see!

It's kind of ironic that I even care, as I used to completely ignore APS-H sensor size. Now that I've owned a few of the lowly models in that sensor, I've developed a fondness for it over APS-C (but not as much as for FF!).

I don't really have a horse in the race, so as long as I eventually get my mega-MP HDR FF DSLR, I'm good.

Jan 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

godfather
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p.1 #11 · 1.3 Crop

I think canon will stay FF on all future 1d bodies. I was really waiting for a 3D .... basically a 5dIII with a 1.3 crop sensor, but its as good as dead IMO.

Now that the viewfinder is programable Canon will have a high speed crop mode on future 1d bodies (viewfinder turns black in the crop area) which will be around 1.2-1.3 crop factor and frame rate will jump from 6fps to 12fps. Not sure what the specs will be but probably a FF MP count of 28-34mp's.

Jan 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

big country
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p.1 #12 · 1.3 Crop

i think it's pretty much done for.

Jan 11, 2013 at 01:53 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #13 · 1.3 Crop

RobDickinson wrote:
I dont disagree with the need for dual 1 series bodies.

But the 1dx has proved superbly capable of handling anything you would shoot with an aps-h body.

Its by far the best all round pro body made, aps-h would impact its low light performance for no practical benefit.

But it's still too pixel challenged IMO for birding for example, unless you are fortunate enough to also own a 600 II or 800. Crop the 1D X hard to 1D IV FOV and you've lost a lot of advantage of it's superior IQ, especially at high ISO.

I'd like to think with new sensor tech, Canon could easily deliver say a 20-24MP APS-H with superior noise to 1D IV and this is giving us 33-40MP FF equivalent, a huge improvement over the 1D X. Coupled with 1D X AF, 12fps, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. You might say they could offer a 1d X 2 with say 30MP+, so why would you bother, but it'll always be a lot dearer and that's another thing people have forgotten. 1D X, while cheaper than 1DS III was almost $2K dearer than new 1D IV. This is why I bought 5D III, 90% of the camera for half the price and more pixels an only slightly lower IQ at high ISO.

Will it happen, of course not as it's too sensible, so I'll have to rest my hopes on the 7D II.

Jan 11, 2013 at 02:09 AM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #14 · 1.3 Crop

Yes 1,3 is dead

Jan 11, 2013 at 02:15 AM

speedmaster20d
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p.1 #15 · 1.3 Crop

But it's still too pixel challenged IMO for birding for example, unless you are fortunate enough to also own a 600 II or 800. Crop the 1D X hard to 1D IV FOV and you've lost a lot of advantage of it's superior IQ, especially at high ISO.

Actually, It's the other way round. The 1DX produces a superior image at high ISO and in FL-limited situations compared to 1D4, even when you up-sample its files. I have specifically addressed this issue in my my review of 1DX

At low ISO where noise is less of an issue for 1D4 it does have some resolution advantage in FL-limited scenarios, but after using the 1DX for a while there is no going back to 1D4.

The 1DX is the best EOS 1 series overall ever made IMO and I think Canon put themselves on the right track with this decision.

Jan 11, 2013 at 07:19 AM

ggreene
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p.1 #16 · 1.3 Crop

speedmaster20d wrote:
Actually, It's the other way round. The 1DX produces a superior image at high ISO and in FL-limited situations compared to 1D4, even when you up-sample its files. I have specifically addressed this issue in my my review of 1DX

At low ISO where noise is less of an issue for 1D4 it does have some resolution advantage in FL-limited scenarios, but after using the 1DX for a while there is no going back to 1D4.

That's why I always viewed the 1DX/1D4 as complimentary bodies. Each has there own strengths. I would have kept my 1D4 if I could have afforded it but I wanted to offset some of the cost of the 1DX. I'm hoping that the 7D2 becomes that companion body with even more reach then the 1D4.

Jan 11, 2013 at 01:50 PM

DavidP
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p.1 #17 · 1.3 Crop

I think APS-H (1.3x) is probably dead, but I'll be glad to give it mouth to mouth, especially if that results in a pellicle mirror, too.

Jan 12, 2013 at 11:51 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #18 · 1.3 Crop

Yeah it is dead, and has been discussed previously.

EBH

Jan 13, 2013 at 01:44 AM

LightShow
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p.1 #19 · 1.3 Crop

I had hopes the 1.3x would show up in the EOS M, but they went with 1.6x, maybe the pro version.

Jan 13, 2013 at 04:23 AM

e.aland
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p.1 #20 · 1.3 Crop

speedmaster20d wrote:

But it's still too pixel challenged IMO for birding for example, unless you are fortunate enough to also own a 600 II or 800. Crop the 1D X hard to 1D IV FOV and you've lost a lot of advantage of it's superior IQ, especially at high ISO.

Actually, It's the other way round. The 1DX produces a superior image at high ISO and in FL-limited situations compared to 1D4, even when you up-sample its files. I have specifically addressed this issue in my my review of 1DX

At low ISO where noise is less of an issue for 1D4 it does have some resolution advantage in FL-limited scenarios, but after using the 1DX for a while there is no going back to 1D4.

The 1DX is the best EOS 1 series overall ever made IMO and I think Canon put themselves on the right track with this decision.

i am with you here. the effect of the recent FF (including exmor) sensors is - a shock.
viewing images from those new sensors is - a shock.
so i am shocked with the IQ of the new 6D which I use for 1 week now.
question for me now concerning my 2 APSH-bodies is which lenses (primes and zooms) to use in combination to a FF body that overtakes a lot of stuff i was doing with the 1D4.

result: the 70200 (and 70300) will be glued to the 1D4 with the advantage to frame 90-260 (or 90-380mm), getting phantastic IQ and performance for everything in that nicely stretched range.

for the futur i am not hoping for a APSH 1D5 with 20mp, but for a 5D4 with 8 fps and increased DR. the 5D3 is already side by side with the 1D4 today. an improved and faster 5D4 will do the rest, not to speak about a potential 1DX mark II with 24mp resolution.

i expect that my 1D4 body will loose 500$ value every year now.

Jan 13, 2013 at 09:36 AM

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