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Archive 2013 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D
  
 
PetKal
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Today was the first time I used the (600 II + 1.4xTC III) combo on 7D (handheld).
The reasons for 7D today were as follows:

(1) I thought the ducks were going to be quite distant, thus I wanted to have the max camera sensor pixel density.
(2) Good light and largely white ducks meant I would not have to go over ISO 200.
(3) I was not going to shoot any birds in flight.

Based on those three criteria above I thought 7D was a good choice. However, I could not anticipate the severity of AF response loss.....quite pathetic even on stationary and contrasty targets which were well lit. Granted, if I switched the lens to the partial (upper) focusing distance limiter setting, I could have improved the situation somewhat.

Another problem was a bit of an AF calibration drift with that particular setup......that is something that could be remedied if I really cared to do it.

At any rate, the bottom line is that even my ancient 1DMkIIN and 1DsMkII have a decidedly better AF response with 600 II + 1.4xTC III, let alone 1DX.
That just goes to show that there is more to "reach" of a setup than the sensor pixel density alone.

Here's a few shots with the setup in order to enliven the post.

Edited on Jan 02, 2013 at 06:21 PM · View previous versions



Jan 01, 2013 at 10:35 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


I reckon you have a dodgy 7D. I have used 300 f/2.8 + 1.4x TC II, and 500 mk I + 1.4x TC II on 7D and it's worked very well.

What was the 7D like with just the 600 as that combo will still give you a ton more reach than the 1D II + 600 + 1.4x if you are FL limited?



Jan 01, 2013 at 10:46 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


I haven't used 7D with any bare long lens except 800L, in which case IQ was very good, but AF response was not satisfactory although it was much better than with 600 II + 1.4xTC III today.


Jan 01, 2013 at 10:52 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Peter, the first one seems to be a tad soft but the IQ of the last 3 shots is just fine. I tried that lens plus a 1.4X TC on my 5D Mark III and I am very pleased with the results, both IQ-wise and AF speed/accuracy. I know the limitation of my own strength, and I used a monopod for my shots . I haven't tried that combo on the 7D however.


Jan 01, 2013 at 11:09 PM
ggOk
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


love it.. I have hard time handholding 400 v1... okay, I admit that there is no way I can handhold 400 v1.. showed my wife this photo and told her I need v2 so I can handhold this kind of lenses...

/r
Andy



Jan 01, 2013 at 11:19 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


AGeoJO wrote:
Peter, the first one seems to be a tad soft but the IQ of the last 3 shots is just fine. I tried that lens plus a 1.4X TC on my 5D Mark III and I am very pleased with the results, both IQ-wise and AF speed/accuracy. I know the limitation of my own strength, and I used a monopod for my shots . I haven't tried that combo on the 7D however.


Joshua, it's not the lens/TC combo, it is 7D (perhaps I should say my 7D) which is NFG with this combo.

I have done a fair bit of testing of the combo +1DX on some fairly challenging fast moving targets (see below), and everything worked reasonably OK.


Edited on Jan 02, 2013 at 06:21 PM · View previous versions



Jan 01, 2013 at 11:32 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


ggOk wrote:
love it.. I have hard time handholding 400 v1... okay, I admit that there is no way I can handhold 400 v1.. showed my wife this photo and told her I need v2 so I can handhold this kind of lenses...

/r
Andy


I also had a hard time shooting with 400 f/2.8 IS MkI handheld.......the lens is a real herniator.
However, the MkII is significantly easier to use w/o pods, and that is the only way I have used it so far. In fact, the only lens which I mount on a pod (here and there) today is 800L.



Jan 01, 2013 at 11:39 PM
Harry.C
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


There is a ridiculous difference between AF performance with a 600 + 1.4 TC on a 7D versus a 1DX. I figure anyone who thinks the 7D performs well would quickly change their mind after seeing the response on a 1DX.

That's not to say the 7D can't do well, but it feel like a turtle hunting for AF once you've tried it with a 1DX.

Regards,
Harry C



Jan 01, 2013 at 11:40 PM
uz2work
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Pixel Perfect wrote:
I reckon you have a dodgy 7D. I have used 300 f/2.8 + 1.4x TC II, and 500 mk I + 1.4x TC II on 7D and it's worked very well.

What was the 7D like with just the 600 as that combo will still give you a ton more reach than the 1D II + 600 + 1.4x if you are FL limited?


+1

When I've used my 7D with the 500/4 (original version) and a 1.4x (either version II or III) it has worked quite well, and the hit to AF speed is the relatively minor hit that I have come to expect with a 1.4x on any camera body.

But, also, the relevant comparison would be the performance of the 600 + 1.4x on the 1DX compared to the bare 600 on the 7D because the bare 600 on the 7D is going to put more pixels on the subject than will the 600 + 1.4x on the 1DX.

Les



Jan 01, 2013 at 11:44 PM
PaulCal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Hoards of pixels are useless if the camera cannot lock focus on the target. The first pic seems to be evidence of that.


Jan 02, 2013 at 12:18 AM
 

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Doctorbird
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Peter,

Thanks for performing that experiment, on of which I planned to do with my 400II and 500II. Not surprising results considering the differences in the dollar outlay between the cameras. Did you upgrade the 7D?

Hopefully the an upgraded 7D will perform better.

Db



Jan 02, 2013 at 12:49 AM
jerbear00
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Thx for sharing Peter. Great shots


Jan 02, 2013 at 12:52 AM
surfnron
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


A great set Peter. The results are very good, even if the combo did not perform as you would have liked. I have tried the 500 II with a 1.4 III on my 7D with dismal results - so bad that I sent the new 1.4 III in for a warranty check. They sent it back as within spec. BTW - that combo doesn't do well on my 1D4 either. I just joined CPS, so I'll be sending the 1D4 and the tc in soon ~ Ron


Jan 02, 2013 at 01:07 AM
PetKal
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Doctorbird wrote:
Did you upgrade the 7D?
Hopefully the an upgraded 7D will perform better.

Db


Db, I got my 7D about two years ago, however, it was used by me as a specialty high pixel density camera. It didn't take me long to discover that my 1DMkIIN as well as 1DsMkII had superior AF.

However, it is also possible that something has gone awry with my particular 7D.....perhaps you'd find yours better performing. Just one caveat, though: I do not think it is safe to extrapolate from (500 + 1.4xTC ) to (600 + 1.4xTC) AF behaviour on 7D. The most significant difference is in the defocus range which the 840mm combo has more of, and such huge defocus tends to strain any camera body AF quite a bit.



Jan 02, 2013 at 01:12 AM
StillFingerz
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Hi Peter,

This set of images for me demonstrates...CLEARLY...what the IQ of an 18MP sensor brings to the party vs. that of an 18MP of a FF sensor.

Understanding the 7D and 1DX use different sensor and CPU tech; which I'd guess gives the newer body an edge, feather detail is slim in these shots and was in abundant detail in you 1DX, 600 II, 1.4x III series from last year.

Can't imagine the temps you were shooting in, but really nice testing. As I analyze/see more images it's becoming clearer just how much the FF sensor really helps with IQ.

I've been looking through various 6D threads, the images are from all levels of Canon glass; including some Alt glass and the IQ looks stunning...6D here I come

Jerry



Jan 02, 2013 at 02:03 AM
garydavidjones
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


I use the 7D and 100-400 L with 600 EX flash. flash seems to make
critters stand out more.



Jan 02, 2013 at 02:08 AM
PetKal
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


StillFingerz wrote:
Hi Peter,

This set of images for me demonstrates...CLEARLY...what the IQ of an 18MP sensor brings to the party vs. that of an 18MP of a FF sensor.

Jerry


Jerry, I believe the decisive advantages current gen cameras have are to be found in AF and high ISO noise suppression. Now, if one is shooting stationary targets, and in very good light, those advantages become much less pronounced, or less significant, if you will.

(Mind you, I like FF bodies, and I think 6D should be a nice focussing camera too, assuming Canon has supplied it with such AF routine which takes full advantage of the super sensitive center AF point.)



Jan 02, 2013 at 02:24 AM
PetKal
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


Jerry, as a matter of test quality control, I went back to the lake today with 600 II + 1.4xTC again, however, this time mounted on 1DX.
No problem, the setup AF responds as it should, i.e., fairly briskly, and AF accuracy and image sharpness is very good, so much so that major crop enlargements are possible like in the example below. (That one I have enlarged more than what I normally do, in order to illustrate the IQ).

Clearly, on long range shots at 840mm, not only that 1DX gives me a significantly better efective "reach" than 7D, it also allows me to capture images where 7D fumbles and stumbles hopelessly. A misfocussed or missed shot means very poor "reach" indeed.

Edited on Jan 04, 2013 at 12:31 AM · View previous versions



Jan 02, 2013 at 07:39 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


I don't know about BIF but with 7d/1.4x stationary:

1) I use spot focus/spot/single shot servo metering (c1) and do not have problems. It is rare to have oof on stationary subjects. I use my 7d/1.4x on 600 and have not seen issues with focus on stationary subjects, as compared to my 5diii. I turn to ai-servo (c2) when birds are in flight.

2) Remember that 7d is 1.6x thus you would expect that it would be 60% more jittery and harder to focus. Eg. It should be harder to focus and get good pictures. You have to keep the shutter speed higher than a ff.

3) I have found that the focus spot to be a little off the very centre. Like shooting a gun, you have to be familiar with your gun.

Make sure: A) it is micro-focussed, B) has sufficent shutter speed reflecting the greater reach, C) you practice with it and find out where it is focussing.



Jan 02, 2013 at 08:27 PM
werecow
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 600 II + 1.4xTC MkIII on 7D


I ordered a 600 II and sent it back after ridiculously bad focussing with my 7D, both with and without 1.4tc. I have a 500 F4 IS I and that combo even with 1.4tc focusses really reliably.
I tested them for a few days and the 7D + 500F4+1.4tc had an over 95% critical focus/keeper rate on still objects both in servo and single AF mode.
The 7D plus 600 IS II was about 50% both with and without 1.4tc in single and servo AF.
I couldn't use micro-adjust because sometimes it was front focussing and others back.

I sent the lens back after about a weeks testing, feeling thoroughly dissillusioned with it all.
Not sure if something is inherently bad with the 7D+600 II combo... i've not seen many people that use it as they tend to use 1D's with the lens. I'm a birder in the UK though so i wanted the pixel density of the 7D.



Jan 02, 2013 at 10:03 PM
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