Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       5       6       end
  

Archive 2012 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO
  
 
gfiksel
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


cineski wrote:
I'm one of the 3 stop crowd. The max I'd ever shoot my 5D is 1600 in the real world (wedding or commercial photography). My 5D3 I shoot often at 12,800. That's a 3 stop advantage for me in real world shooting. Does that mean the 5D3's grain at 12,800 is the same as the 5D at 1600? Heck no. But there's much more to grain and the overall image than what's being presented in this thread. On top of that, the 5D3 doesn't have to have exposure nailed at 12,800 in order to get a perfectly usable image. There's
...Show more

My thoughts exactly. I had very decent ISO12800 shots - headshots, nicely detailed, very good color rendition. Never dreamed to get similar results with 5D at ISO3200.



Dec 30, 2012 at 04:03 PM
Lars Johnsson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


justruss wrote:
Not sure what the argument here is. The 5d3 improved on the 5d2 which improved on the 5D which improved on the 1ds (maybe even 1ds2/3). No single step was a revolution, but high ISO from 1ds to 5dmk3 sure looks revolutionary.

Other manufacturers have made bigger jumps. Just as it always has been.

It's pretty wonderful that every year for the past decade we've been able to say, "Shooting has never been so easy, so fun, and so technically-empowered. If there are limits they are mostly mine."


Are you really saying the 5D was better and improved on the 1Ds3 ? If so you are really wrong



Dec 30, 2012 at 04:08 PM
Beni
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #3 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Just goes to show what an incredible sensor that one in the 5Dc has always been, even today it's used as a benchmark. It's the reason why we always put up with some aspects of the build, that sensor would never ever let us down. Had two of them since they were first released. Only now buying a 5D3 cause one of my 5D's was dying even after a shutter and mirror box transplant, just dying of old age and many many frames.

Keep in mind of course in comparisons that the highest real iso of the 5Dc is 1600. I'd say from messing with many raw files from the 5D3 that the newer camera has about a 1.5 stop advantage however and this is important, the higher iso's are real iso's, the 5Dc never had an iso 3200 nevermind 6400, etc. We can only marvel that these are available to us now, for real, not just camera software pushed versions.



Dec 30, 2012 at 05:30 PM
Beni
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Lars Johnsson wrote:
Are you really saying the 5D was better and improved on the 1Ds3 ? If so you are really wrong


I have the 5Dc and owned the 1Ds3. The 5D is significantly better for noise. Not DR, colour and tonality (where the 1Ds3 creams the 5D) but certainly at least 1 stop better for noise, IMO from iso 400 upwards and very apparent at iso 1600. Downrezzing does help but it still doesn't quite reach the 5Dc. I do 80% of my shooting at high iso and that is one of the reasons I haven't gone back to the 1Ds3 despite it's hugely attractive pricing at present.



Dec 30, 2012 at 05:34 PM
Lars Johnsson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Beni wrote:
I have the 5Dc and owned the 1Ds3. The 5D is significantly better for noise. Not DR, colour and tonality (where the 1Ds3 creams the 5D) but certainly at least 1 stop better for noise, IMO from iso 400 upwards and very apparent at iso 1600. Downrezzing does help but it still doesn't quite reach the 5Dc. I do 80% of my shooting at high iso and that is one of the reasons I haven't gone back to the 1Ds3 despite it's hugely attractive pricing at present.


I don't agree at all. It would also make the 5D3 about 4 stops better than the 1Ds3



Dec 31, 2012 at 01:11 AM
Sven Jeppesen
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #6 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


cineski wrote:
I'm one of the 3 stop crowd. The max I'd ever shoot my 5D is 1600 in the real world (wedding or commercial photography). My 5D3 I shoot often at 12,800. That's a 3 stop advantage for me in real world shooting. Does that mean the 5D3's grain at 12,800 is the same as the 5D at 1600? Heck no. But there's much more to grain and the overall image than what's being presented in this thread. On top of that, the 5D3 doesn't have to have exposure nailed at 12,800 in order to get a perfectly usable image. There's
...Show more

+1

I think it's close to 3 stops difference



Dec 31, 2012 at 01:28 AM
corndog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #7 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


I don't know what the deal was with the 5D. I have some that looks excellent at 3200 and others that have tons of noise, as well as banding, even with similar exposures.


Dec 31, 2012 at 01:58 AM
skibum5
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #8 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


corndog wrote:
I don't know what the deal was with the 5D. I have some that looks excellent at 3200 and others that have tons of noise, as well as banding, even with similar exposures.


Same type of lighting? (tungsten/fluorescent/sunlight/sodium vapor/etc.)

Similar scenes with similar DR? (not one scene with lots of area near black and high DR and one mostly midtones and up and low DR)



Dec 31, 2012 at 03:26 AM
corndog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Not exact. The ones I'm looking at were handheld at a college football game (from the seats) and there are minor difference that made the camera unhappy. One of them was even a little counter intuitive in that it looked good at 1/60, but bad at 1/50, when I would have expected it to be the other way around. The lights cycle in the stadium, so I'm sure that's part of it. Anyway, what I perceived as being very minor changes in scene/exposure resulted in what I perceived as major changes in image quality.


Dec 31, 2012 at 03:49 AM
anthonygh
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


I read several posts then skipped to the end. I have just bought a 5D to use for studio shoots...with stobes..max ISO 200. And maybe to take along the coast with me along with a 1V...both on ISO 100 as that is the film I use.

The point of my post is that one buys a camera for what it is good at...not how it copes at some theoretical extreme. Buy a 5D3 if you want to shoot in the dark or BIF or whatever...but if your needs are more conventional...the 5D is a great FF choice at the current selling price.



Dec 31, 2012 at 03:53 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



corndog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Shooting 100 at the beach in the UK? Better bring a tripod.


Dec 31, 2012 at 03:57 AM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Adam, it would be interesting to see the differences on (low iso pushed) shadows noise between these twos when using fast lens on low contrast scenes. Please, share if and only if you already have data to play with. I did the cross check between 5D&5D2&50L once and the 5D won.

Thanks



Jan 01, 2013 at 05:38 AM
Shutterbug2006
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Even if the 5D3 didn't have a 1 stop advantage over the 5D, it uses a 14-bit A/D convertor while the 5D uses 12-bit.

That means there is more brightness and color information in each 5D3 RAW file.

That extra information provides smoother tonal transitions and with "Highlight Tone Priority" turned on, Canon uses this extra tonal data to help preserve from 1/3 to a full stop of additional detail in bright highlights.

While a 14-bit A/D converter probably can't produce any more “visual” colors from RAW data than a 8 or 12-bit A/D converter, its increased precision allows for higher color accuracy and smoother gradations between colors, and more details in dark, saturated colors that can be attributed to the increased dynamic range that a 14-bit converter provides over a 12-bit one.



Jan 01, 2013 at 09:14 AM
Beni
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #14 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Firstly HTP is nothing to do with 14bit and all to do with the camera underexposing and pushing in post in camera or in the case of the RAW file including a marker to tell the software to do the same. You can actually see it happen to the files when you build previews in ACR, etc.

Secondly it is unlikely that there is close to 14 bits of information in DSLR files, most MF backs just manage to hit the 14 bit mark. You've bought into hype that under many long discussions at the time was pretty much regarded as marketing exaggeration with few being able to see any advantage at all to using 14bit files from a DSLR.

I'd love to be proven wrong about the 2nd point, I've never owned a camera that can do 14 bit but I remember the discussions at the time.



Jan 01, 2013 at 10:06 AM
Shutterbug2006
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Beni wrote:
Firstly HTP is nothing to do with 14bit and all to do with the camera underexposing and pushing in post in camera or in the case of the RAW file including a marker to tell the software to do the same. You can actually see it happen to the files when you build previews in ACR, etc.


There are a few articles provided by Canon that say 14-bit files provide them with enough data to enable their highlight tone priority function to obtain from 1/3 to 1 full stop of additional detail depending on the scene. Are you saying they're lying or that I'm misinformed?

Secondly it is unlikely that there is close to 14 bits of information in DSLR files, most MF backs just manage to hit the 14 bit mark. You've bought into hype that under many long discussions at the time was pretty much regarded as marketing exaggeration with few being able to see any advantage at all to using 14bit files from a DSLR.

I'd love to be proven wrong about the 2nd point, I've never owned a camera that can do 14 bit but I remember the discussions at the time.


I think maybe you're mixing up bits with dynamic range.

A 14-bit file has 16,384 shades per channel. A 12-bit file has 4,096.




Jan 01, 2013 at 10:57 AM
chez
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Shutterbug2006 wrote:
There are a few articles provided by Canon that say 14-bit files provide them with enough data to enable their highlight tone priority function to obtain from 1/3 to 1 full stop of additional detail depending on the scene. Are you saying they're lying or that I'm misinformed?

I think maybe you're mixing up bits with dynamic range.

A 14-bit file has 16,384 shades per channel. A 12-bit file has 4,096.



Yes, in theory 14-bit files have 16,384 shades per channel, but in practice I wonder how many of those shades are truly different than it's neighbors. I'm sure there is some difference from 12-bit...but I am also sure it is not as much as the numbers indicate.



Jan 01, 2013 at 01:13 PM
cineski
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


I agree with this. The 5D is a lot of camera for the (used) money. My 5D's really did a good job for me through the years that I owned them (still shoot a 5D as a backup). The 5D3, at the time it was introduced, was a lot of money for what you got. But in the end, I bought the 5D3 right away because I skipped the 5D2 entirely (no matter what I did I couldn't warm up to that camera) and felt I really needed an updated body. The 5D3 is a huge step up from the 5D (and what the 5D2 should have been) in almost every aspect but in all reality, a used 5D continues to be a wonderful camera for many applications.

Are you shooting Ektar 100 in your 1V? I'm a Portra 400 junky

anthonygh wrote:
I read several posts then skipped to the end. I have just bought a 5D to use for studio shoots...with stobes..max ISO 200. And maybe to take along the coast with me along with a 1V...both on ISO 100 as that is the film I use.

The point of my post is that one buys a camera for what it is good at...not how it copes at some theoretical extreme. Buy a 5D3 if you want to shoot in the dark or BIF or whatever...but if your needs are more conventional...the 5D is a great FF choice at the current selling
...Show more



Jan 01, 2013 at 02:32 PM
cineski
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #18 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


In terms of 12 vs 14 bit, there are several times when a 5D file would give me banding in the skies under certain circumstances due to lack of bit depth, so I'd often have to dial back what I really wanted to do to the image. I don't get that with the 5D3.....although while the 5D3 files hold up to post production much better than 12 bit images, the abuse they can take isn't unlimited. My film scanner gives me 16 bit images and while the image size is huge, I can absolutely pummel the files in post production and they hold up beautifully. That's part of the reason I wish Canon would start giving us true 16 bit images. Although the majority of problems I see in lower bit depth images are reserved for blue skies.


Jan 01, 2013 at 02:36 PM
snapsy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


mttran wrote:
Adam, it would be interesting to see the differences on (low iso pushed) shadows noise between these twos when using fast lens on low contrast scenes. Please, share if and only if you already have data to play with. I did the cross check between 5D&5D2&50L once and the 5D won.

Thanks


My Canon shadow pushing days are behind me



Jan 01, 2013 at 04:36 PM
snapsy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #20 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO


Shutterbug2006 wrote:
I think maybe you're mixing up bits with dynamic range.
A 14-bit file has 16,384 shades per channel. A 12-bit file has 4,096.


The extra 2 bits are wasted because they're just oversampling noise (at least on current Canon sensors).



Jan 01, 2013 at 04:38 PM
1       2      
3
       4       5       6       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       5       6       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password