5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

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5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

snapsy
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p.1 #1 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Some believe the 5DM3 has a three stop High ISO advantage over the original 5D. The DxoMark data shows the objective advantage at exactly 1 stop, for both noise and dynamic range. The 5DM3 has less shadow banding at High ISO vs the 5D, so some believe perceptually the 5DM3 has a three stop advantage even if objectively it's only one stop.

Here are samples I took today. Shot raw with identical 50mm f/1.4 lens, processed in LR4 with all defaults except for WB adjustment and profile set to camera neutral. Both downsized to 8MP. Tungsten lighting (5D WB = 2310+5, 5DM3 WB = 2310+9). Pay special attention to the color patches and the shadows.

5D ISO 1600 vs 5DM3 ISO 12,800 (3-stop delta), 100% crop
5D ISO 1600 vs 5DM3 ISO 6,400 (2-stop delta), 100% crop
5D ISO 1600 vs 5DM3 ISO 3,200 (1-stop delta), 100% crop
5D ISO 3200 (pushed 1EV from ISO 1600) vs 5DM3 ISO 6,400 (1-stop delta), 100% crop

Full-sized 8MP images:
5D ISO 1600
5D ISO 3200 (pushed 1EV from ISO 1600)
5DM3 ISO 3200
5DM3 ISO 6400
5DM3 ISO 12800

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:11 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #2 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

It's definitely closer to 1 vs 3. The ole 5D is no slouch.

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:23 PM

pipspeak
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p.1 #3 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Yeah, one stop looks about right with just causal eyeballing of the images. Still not bad considering 22MP vs. 12Mp

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:27 PM

rrxjon
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p.1 #4 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

I know my 5D can't produce usable pics @ 16000K ISO. 5D3 can (60% crop).

2013 © rrxjon

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:33 PM

AaronNegro
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p.1 #5 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

My eyes say more than one stop but less than two

3 in JPEG? just wondering.

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:34 PM

mttran
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p.1 #6 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Agreed. Our naked eyes have never failed us regardless of all the glory canon talks in the last 7 years. So when is your new sensor canon?

snapsy wrote:
Some believe the 5DM3 has a three stop High ISO advantage over the original 5D. The DxoMark data shows the objective advantage at exactly 1 stop, for both noise and dynamic range. The 5DM3 has less shadow banding at High ISO vs the 5D, so some believe perceptually the 5DM3 has a three stop advantage even if objectively it's only one stop.

Here are samples I took today. Shot raw with identical 50mm f/1.4 lens, processed in LR4 with all defaults except for WB adjustment and profile set to camera neutral. Both downsized to 8MP. Tungsten lighting (5D WB = 2310+5, 5DM3 WB = 2310+9). Pay special attention to the color patches and the shadows.

5D ISO 1600 vs 5DM3 ISO 12,800 (3-stop delta), 100% crop
5D ISO 1600 vs 5DM3 ISO 6,400 (2-stop delta), 100% crop
5D ISO 1600 vs 5DM3 ISO 3,200 (1-stop delta), 100% crop
5D ISO 3200 (pushed 1EV from ISO 1600) vs 5DM3 ISO 6,400 (1-stop delta), 100% crop

Full-sized 8MP images:
5D ISO 1600
5D ISO 3200 (pushed 1EV from ISO 1600)
5DM3 ISO 3200
5DM3 ISO 6400
5DM3 ISO 12800

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:52 PM

skibum5
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p.1 #7 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

What if the scene is a typical night scene where you have lots of the image near black and you are shooting ISO 12,800 or 25,600 though? Won't the banding make the 5Dc a total disaster? I still wonder if you might not get at least two stops better effectively under those cases. Some high iso shots don't have lots near black, but plenty do.

Dec 29, 2012 at 09:58 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #8 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

I think the 5D image would suffer a lot more than one stop from the 5D3 when printed large due to the rezzing up of existing artifacts.

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:10 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #9 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

skibum5 wrote:
What if the scene is a typical night scene where you have lots of the image near black and you are shooting ISO 12,800 or 25,600 though? Won't the banding make the 5Dc a total disaster? I still wonder if you might not get at least two stops better effectively under those cases. Some high iso shots don't have lots near black, but plenty do.

There is some uniform blacks in the shadows of the images I posted, for example inside the heel of the shoes. I've never been bothered by the 5D's High ISO banding - it's rather tame IMO and when it does occur it can be removed via Nik's Dfine debanding logic.

Based on only visual observations for very-High ISOs (ISO 12800+), the 5DM3 appears to perform raw impulse noise reduction (the "salt 'n pepper noise"), similar to what the D3s was recently discovered to be doing (thread here). It's that noise which is most objectionable on cameras which don't perform that NR, like the original 5D.

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #10 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Gochugogi wrote:
I think the 5D image would suffer a lot more than one stop from the 5D3 when printed large due to the rezzing up of existing artifacts.

Yes a more fair comparison would be to upsize the 5D.

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:20 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #11 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Lars Johnsson wrote:
Gochugogi wrote:
I think the 5D image would suffer a lot more than one stop from the 5D3 when printed large due to the rezzing up of existing artifacts.

Yes a more fair comparison would be to upsize the 5D.

I don't see how it would make a difference based on per-area SNR/DR differences of the two sensors. And how many people really do very large prints at ISO 3200+, ie ones which can't be accommodated natively by 12MP?

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:23 PM

timbop
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p.1 #12 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

looks like sonewhere between 1.5 to 2 stops to me. Somehow I think if you push the old 5d to 6400 or 12800 you would see a big difference. Also, rather than downrezzing the mark 3 if you uprez the 5d classic it would be more obvious.

In either case, the classic is and was a great camera but the mark 3 is a better one.

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #13 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

snapsy wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Gochugogi wrote:
I think the 5D image would suffer a lot more than one stop from the 5D3 when printed large due to the rezzing up of existing artifacts.

Yes a more fair comparison would be to upsize the 5D.

I don't see how it would make a difference based on per-area SNR/DR differences of the two sensors. And how many people really do very large prints at ISO 3200+, ie ones which can't be accommodated natively by 12MP?

Why would you buy a 22MP body if you never gonna use more than 8MP ?

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:33 PM

safcraft
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p.1 #14 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Lars Johnsson wrote:
snapsy wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Gochugogi wrote:
I think the 5D image would suffer a lot more than one stop from the 5D3 when printed large due to the rezzing up of existing artifacts.

Yes a more fair comparison would be to upsize the 5D.

I don't see how it would make a difference based on per-area SNR/DR differences of the two sensors. And how many people really do very large prints at ISO 3200+, ie ones which can't be accommodated natively by 12MP?

Why would you buy a 22MP body if you never gonna use more than 8MP ?

2 reasons :
- you cannot buy a 12mp or 8mp NEW canon camera NOW
- you can crop a lot more with 22mp and still print at A3

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:41 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #15 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Lars Johnsson wrote:
Why would you buy a 22MP body if you never gonna use more than 8MP ?

For its resolution advantage in good lighting.

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #16 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

safcraft wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
snapsy wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Gochugogi wrote:
I think the 5D image would suffer a lot more than one stop from the 5D3 when printed large due to the rezzing up of existing artifacts.

Yes a more fair comparison would be to upsize the 5D.

I don't see how it would make a difference based on per-area SNR/DR differences of the two sensors. And how many people really do very large prints at ISO 3200+, ie ones which can't be accommodated natively by 12MP?

Why would you buy a 22MP body if you never gonna use more than 8MP ?

2 reasons :
- you cannot buy a 12mp or 8mp NEW canon camera NOW
- you can crop a lot more with 22mp and still print at A3

You don't belive anybody would buy the Canon body with most MP if they really like to have one with less MP than any existing Canon bodies

It's nice to have the possibility to crop. But be real. Who would crop away nearly 2/3 of every photo the ever shot with the camera?

So if we include a 4MP in the ISO test, we should downsize the others to 2 or 4MP also ?

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:51 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #17 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Here is a demonstration of impulse noise on the 5D that is likely being NR by the 5DM3's DSP/firmware, like how the D3s does. Since it's in the digital domain the same should be achievable using software on the 5D's raw:

5D ISO 6400 (1600 pushed 2 EV) vs the 5DM3 ISO 12800 (1 EV delta), 100% crop

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #18 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

snapsy wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Why would you buy a 22MP body if you never gonna use more than 8MP ?

For its resolution advantage in good lighting.

Why would you worry about the high ISO if you only gonna use it in good lighting?

A fair comparison would be to upsize the smaller camera. It all depends on if you like to do a fair test. Or the test like the 5D to look better

To say that you never will use the camera in low light. Or print any big photos. Well then any body will work great......

Dec 29, 2012 at 10:59 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #19 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

Lars Johnsson wrote:
Why would you worry about the high ISO if you only gonna use it in good lighting?

A fair comparison would be to upsize the smaller camera. It all depends on if you like to do a fair test. Or the test like the 5D to look better

To say that you never will use the camera in low light. Or print any big photos. Well then any body will work great......

The utility of higher resolution sensors is flexibility. You get the higher resolution when conditions permit and no noise penalty (High ISO) when it doesn't. This is all based on per-area scaling of noise and is well understood. If you can articulate a technical explanation which refutes this then I'm all ears.

Dec 29, 2012 at 11:02 PM

skibum5
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p.1 #20 · 5D vs 5DM3 High ISO

snapsy wrote:
skibum5 wrote:
What if the scene is a typical night scene where you have lots of the image near black and you are shooting ISO 12,800 or 25,600 though? Won't the banding make the 5Dc a total disaster? I still wonder if you might not get at least two stops better effectively under those cases. Some high iso shots don't have lots near black, but plenty do.

There is some uniform blacks in the shadows of the images I posted, for example inside the heel of the shoes. I've never been bothered by the 5D's High ISO banding - it's rather tame IMO and when it does occur it can be removed via Nik's Dfine debanding logic.

Based on only visual observations for very-High ISOs (ISO 12800+), the 5DM3 appears to perform raw impulse noise reduction (the "salt 'n pepper noise"), similar to what the D3s was recently discovered to be doing (thread here). It's that noise which is most objectionable on cameras which don't perform that NR, like the original 5D.

hmm well the 20D and 50D certainly could produce ugly high iso banding (even the 5D2 at times, which is why for certain types of scenes the 7D actually made a nicer high ISO image)

Dec 29, 2012 at 11:03 PM

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