fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | General Gear-talk | Join Upload & Sell

1       2              4       end
  

Archive 2012 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX

  
 
Michael White
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


We're you bitten or there when someone was.


Mar 11, 2013 at 05:09 PM
DGC1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


You don't have to step on them to provoke them, just getting too close (because you didn't see the snake) will do it. Also, contrary to popular belief, rattlesnakes don't always rattle before they strike. You implied they will only strike if you step on them and this simply isn't true. Rattlesnakes are pit vipers and as such, strike when they sense heat. It doesn't matter if the heat is generated by prey or enemy, they will strike at the heat source. This has been well documented.


Mar 11, 2013 at 05:46 PM
Michael H
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #3 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


jcbenner wrote:
As has been mentioned several times, snake gaiters and boots:

<see original post for pic>


I'm not entirely sure I'd feel comfortable with the mesh side of those boots. I don't have any first hand experience one way or the other but I'd have to think that a good sized snake fang could penetrate that area on the side of the foot. For me, I'd be looking at some other footwear.

-mike



Mar 13, 2013 at 02:06 PM
jcolwell
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


jcbenner wrote:
As has been mentioned several times, snake gaiters and boots:

<see original post for pic>

Michael H wrote:
I'm not entirely sure I'd feel comfortable with the mesh side of those boots. I don't have any first hand experience one way or the other but I'd have to think that a good sized snake fang could penetrate that area on the side of the foot. For me, I'd be looking at some other footwear.

-mike


It's not the surface layer of the boot that stops the bite, just like it's not the surface layer of most waterproof boots that stops the water from getting in. In most cases, it's the inside layers that count. In the case of waterproof boots, the interior layer is Gore-Tex, or similar. In the case of snake gaiters and snake boots, the internal layer is Kevlar, or similar.



Mar 13, 2013 at 03:43 PM
jcbenner
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Michael H wrote:
I'm not entirely sure I'd feel comfortable with the mesh side of those boots. I don't have any first hand experience one way or the other but I'd have to think that a good sized snake fang could penetrate that area on the side of the foot. For me, I'd be looking at some other footwear.

-mike


I'm pretty comfortable with them. As was mentioned, there are multiple layers of material. They seem quite resistant to cactus thorns, which are more able to penetrate. Lowe Elite Desert boots with Turtleskin Snake gaiters.

http://www.turtleskin.com/Snake-Gaiters.aspx













Mar 13, 2013 at 08:45 PM
Michael H
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Thanks for the clarification on the boots guys. Like I said, I have no real personal experience with these either way, but the mesh side just caught my attention.

Stay safe out there!

-mike



Mar 14, 2013 at 11:02 AM
KayEhm
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Oof! As a photographer myself, I've found that I'm far to focused on the shot to be able to be on the lookout for snakes and critters. You're definitely going to want to pick up a pair of snake proof boots, that's a no-brainer. Snake gaiters are also pretty handy in a pinch. I also have a pair of snake proof pants just to be extra safe. It's money well spent, in my opinion. Not only am I protected, but I can allow myself to focus on photography and not have to worry about snakes since I know I'm safe should I encounter one.


Aug 05, 2015 at 04:25 PM
elkhornsun
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


A snake does not purposely bit a larger animal than it can eat. Often the bite is not fatal as the individual snake does not inject enough venom. Whether the snake chooses to not inject all that it has or the venom is low after the snake has bitten a rodent recently is a guess at best.

The only times I have encountered rattlesnakes in the desert areas (which covers most of Texas) is in the early evening hours when they come out to hunt. So for sunset photos it is important to watch where you walk.

In Texas the odds are far greater of getting shot by someone than bitten by a snake. The CDC estimates about 7,000 people are bitten by snakes in the USA each year with on average only 5 people die as a result. Contrast that with more than 11,000 gun deaths in the USA each year and more than 40,000 auto related deaths and snakes should be the least of anyone's worries.




Aug 05, 2015 at 06:56 PM
ckcarr
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


elkhornsun wrote:
In Texas the odds are far greater of getting shot by someone than bitten by a snake. The CDC estimates about 7,000 people are bitten by snakes in the USA each year with on average only 5 people die as a result. Contrast that with more than 11,000 gun deaths in the USA each year and more than 40,000 auto related deaths and snakes should be the least of anyone's worries.


You don't have to die to have a truly painful and miserable experience and long recovery period, if you ever fully recover.

The problem with statistics is they are looking at a population as a whole. Once you put yourself into a place or situation where you are "at risk" the numbers change dramatically. Most people don't die from falls off cliffs or rock climbing... unless they are standing on or climbing a cliff. Most people aren't mauled by bears, especially if you live in Illinois where there are supposedly no bears, but those odds change significantly if you are in bear country with zero understanding of bear attacks or prevention. Most people aren't struck by lightning either, unless they are on top of a 12,000 foot peak and a severe storm moves in.

I've run into rattlesnakes of several varieties over the years (Western diamondback, black tipped, pygmy rattlesnake, Mojave), usually April and May when they are out more, once on December 25th hiking a slot canyon in southern Utah (right in the middle of the canyon buzzing at me like crazy), under a car in a parking lot at a mine where I once worked, in an Anasazi ruin I spotted one with a little four year old girl approaching, and the one "for sure" is that they are always where and when you don't expect them.

My favorite was this one, when I was out in Arizona in the Superstition Mountains. When I just happened to look down, it was only a foot from my leg. No rattle, no nothing... One more wrong step and it would have been all over. They blend in quite well.

So, my advice, if you are fortunate enough to spot a snake, is to realize they are beautiful creatures - although dangerous, and that they also play an important part in the food chain. Don't kill them, or throw rocks at them. Try to photograph them. You might not see another for years.

https://ckcarr.smugmug.com/Animals/Lizards-Reptiles-and-Snakes/i-zSWC2sF/0/XL/_DSC4796-XL.jpg

https://ckcarr.smugmug.com/Animals/Lizards-Reptiles-and-Snakes/i-QkrGDpX/0/XL/_DSC4717-XL.jpg



Aug 06, 2015 at 06:30 AM
jeetsukumaran
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


I've spent a large portion of my life working in rainforests, actually going out a looking for snakes, frogs, and lizards, with photography being secondary to the main work of herpetological research. My experience in arid environments is much less, limited to visits with friends/colleagues working in that habitat.

My advice:

(1) don't sweat it[*1]
(2) don't sweat it[*1]
(3) don't sweat it[*1]

[*1] As long as you do not try to handle, pick-up, kill, etc. the snake(s)

In Southeast Asian rainforests, at least, you should be much more concerned about tree branches falling on your head during or following a rain storm than anything else. Followed by the little guys -- parasites, mosquite-borne diseases, etc. Actual danger from other sources (snakes, tigers) is, statistically-speaking, a fantasy.

Snake contact/observation frequency can be an order of magnitude higher in arid environments for some reason (I suspect observation artifact rather than density). But the danger is only marginally more. Do not forget that venom is metabolically very expensive, so even if you do accidentally provoke a defensive bite, it is most likely going to a dry bite (as there is no food pay-off: you in no way are going to be mistaken for prey for any venomous snakes[*2]) unless the snake is really antagonized.

[*2] the big constrictors, such as the Reticulated Python do see us as prey ... and routinely, though not frequently, take and eat humans.

There are a few species that you might want to be concerned about. For e.g., in the northern Malay Peninsula, the ground-dwelling Malayan Pit-viper is generally quite sluggish during the day. This, combined with their cryptic coloration, is a dangerous combination: it lies on trails, it is difficult to see, it does not move out of the way of oncoming traffic, resulting in a relatively probability of it being stepped on, resulting in not only a high frequency of defensive bites, but a high frequency of it being scared/angry when doing the defensive bite, which means a high probability of a "wet" defensive bite. In the US, you are lucky to have most of the venomous snakes have some really prominent alarm signals (rattles), and they definitely use them to warn you (as long as their energy levels are sufficient). This greatly decreases the probability of a "mis-bite".

Instead of worrying about snakes, I think you should look forward to maybe/hopefully encountering them if you are lucky enough ! They are beautiful creatures and, especially the pit-vipers that coil up, make for great subjects. The rat snakes and other fast-movers are not so great for photography: when active they move too fast, and even moving slower they rarely have their bodies coiled so that with the full-body shots you end up with a long thin snake with lots of empty frame. Stick to close-ups of heads for that.

Even if you do not find the idea of a snake encounter appealing, I think the best thing you can do to help yourself is to look up the snake species in your area and try and identify them down at least to genus level by sight. Most field guides will have at least sufficient basic information for you understand their behavior with respect to humans (aggressive? not aggressive?), and so let you know where you stand. On the exceedingly rare chance that you do get bitten, understanding roughly what species did bite you will give you so much information as to: what danger are you really in? what the symptoms of envenomation of this species are (pain? no pain? swelling?)? what sort of antivenom might need to be administered? etc. etc. But I think it would be good to understand the snakes of your area for their own sake, and not due to fear.

And finally, here are some snake photographs:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeetsukumaran/sets/72157638340830096

This is a Red-headed Krait (Bungarus flaviceps). A beautiful, beautiful snake! An elapid, so pretty venomous, but not at all aggressive. Even as the group I was with was collecting it (for research), while it started lashing out and striking when it got alarmed, I never saw it actually try to bite: it just made lots of threatening strikes and "knocks" with its head. Of course, kraits are responsible for many deaths in Asia, so I am not saying that these guys are not dangerous. Just not aggressive (most of the deaths occur in rural areas when kraits move into the homes of people at night for warmth and dryness during the rainy season, and creep into bed with them because that's where it is really warm; people roll over in their sleep and get bitten; most of the time they do not even realize it because the bites are relatively painless and venom is neurotoxic instead of haemo- or myco-toxic; they just wake up with difficulty breathing as their systems start shutting down).

JS-20050709-123711

This is a Malayan Coral Snake (Calliophis bivirgatus). Even more beautiful! Isn't it exquisite? It has venom glands running a full 2.3 its body length, and is usually considered very dangerous for this. But its delivery system sucks when it comes to humans: it really has a relatively tiny mouth and there are not many places on our body that it can effectively envenomate us: maybe, e.g., the webbing between our thumb and fingers, for example.

JS-20050630-181017

This is Pope's Pit Viper (Trimeresurus popeorum). Always can count on this one for a photogenic pose!

JS-20100603-075932



Aug 06, 2015 at 11:48 AM
Paul Mo
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #11 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


jeetsukumaran wrote:
In Southeast Asian rainforests, at least, you should be much more concerned about tree branches falling on your head during or following a rain storm than anything else. Followed by the little guys -- parasites, mosquite-borne diseases, etc. Actual danger from other sources (snakes, tigers) is, statistically-speaking, a fantasy.


That being said, three members of my family have been hospitalised - rural folk, not jungle, thigh-high grasses and mixed fruit/palm plantations. So go carefully.



Aug 06, 2015 at 07:02 PM
jeetsukumaran
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Paul Mo wrote:
That being said, three members of my family have been hospitalised - rural folk, not jungle, thigh-high grasses and mixed fruit/palm plantations. So go carefully.


Thailand? Malayan Pit-viper (Calloselasma rhodostoma), most likely? As noted above, their daytime sluggishness + cryptic coloration + terrestrialness makes for a high-frequency dangerous contact situation. Rural/agricultural areas are also high-contact areas for cobras (not the king, Ophiophagus), but, e.g. Naja kauthia) -- for some reason, that's the only place I've come across them, never in the forest proper. But I think that, despite their reputation, they have always struck me (ha, ha) as relatively docile snakes, and dangerous contacts are rare unless they are actively provoked/disturbed (as in people panic when they see them and then proceed to try and kill them)?



Aug 06, 2015 at 09:09 PM
rdcny
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


One of the most terrifying and amazing experiences of my life occurred while I was photographing birds from a hide (bird blind) in Thailand - just outside Kaeng Krachan National Park. A King Cobra - about 6 meters in length came down the trail towards the blind I was sitting in...it paused at the water hole we had set up and began drinking. The local birds were going crazy - diving at the snake and screeching. After what seemed to be an eternity, the King Cobra rose up and came toward the blind. For those unfamiliar with this species of snake, you have to see them move to appreciate how fast they are - I could not out run a King Cobra of this size. So I sat in the hide looking out through the mesh - with my 800mm lens the only thing between me and the snake that was approaching "reared up." (King Cobras move along the ground not in a slither but with the first meter or so of their body raised.) The Cobra stopped just outside my hide and since I was seated, it was looking me right in the eyes - with tongue sensing the air. For whatever reason, it decided to go around my hide, up a hill and (thank the gods) out of sight.

Later when I told this story to my friend Gunn (Baan Maka Lodge) who set up the water hole and bird blind, he laughed and said that in the previous week someone else had the exact same experience...except the King Cobra came into the bird blind and coiled up next to the photographer...



Aug 07, 2015 at 04:46 PM
ckcarr
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #14 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Got pictures?


Aug 07, 2015 at 09:56 PM
rdcny
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #15 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1e03a80wopamgkj/BirdingAsia.BirdHides2009.WEB.pdf?dl=0


Aug 08, 2015 at 12:46 AM
DGC1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Some really foolish "advice" here. In Texas, rattlesnakes are out there and you need to protect yourself if you are walking around in the brush. Especially if you are juggling equipment and looking for subjects to photograph. Better safe than sorry. Some clown recently made the news after trying to take a selfie with a venomous snake. The antivenin alone was $85,000.00. Total hospital bill was over $150,000.00. He was incredibly stupid but in the case of the OP of this thread, a $200.00 investment in snake boots should keep her safe in the event that the unlikely event should occur.


Aug 08, 2015 at 03:34 PM
jeetsukumaran
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


DGC1 wrote:
Some really foolish "advice" here. In Texas, rattlesnakes are out there and you need to protect yourself if you are walking around in the brush. Especially if you are juggling equipment and looking for subjects to photograph. Better safe than sorry. Some clown recently made the news after trying to take a selfie with a venomous snake. The antivenin alone was $85,000.00. Total hospital bill was over $150,000.00. He was incredibly stupid but in the case of the OP of this thread, a $200.00 investment in snake boots should keep her safe in the event that the unlikely event should
...Show more

You may disagree with the "advice", but I, for one, am speaking from both professional knowledge and first-hand experience, so if you are referring to my suggestions as foolish ... Well, I will not go so far call your remarks anything in particular, because I do not want to come across as rude and unmannered as you did. But I will say that the anecdotal story you offered does nothing to counter the logic of any advice, foolish or not, offered in this thread. Nobody suggested that one tries to pick up a snake, and, in fact, I see many suggestion to explicitly avoid antagonizing the snake. So, yes, "don't disturb the snake" is good advice, and, if indeed, anyone suggested otherwise, it is indeed foolish.

As far as boots. Sure, go for it. wear the boots. The bigger picture here is to (a) learn about the snakes of your area and (b) don't be scared of them because, really, statistically and practically, they really are not to be worried about. And whether or not the OP puts on boots, the OP will gain far much more in both the short and long term by following (a) and (b).



Aug 09, 2015 at 05:25 PM
DGC1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #18 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


Soooo... saying "foolish" is rude and unmannered? Well take away my political correctness card. As you live in MI, you probably know little or nothing about walking around in Texas despite your self proclaimed "professional knowledge and first-hand experience". I do have first hand knowledge of walking around in Texas and there are plenty of rattlesnakes down here and sooner or later you will probably encounter one. Giving advice like "don't sweat it" to someone who lives down here is indeed foolish advice. If you are offended by this...tough.


Aug 10, 2015 at 11:58 AM
rdcny
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


ok watch out...durians falling from the sky here:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/australia-food-blog/2014/oct/01/durian-the-worlds-most-divisive-fruit

take cover



Aug 10, 2015 at 12:07 PM
jeetsukumaran
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · Snakes & landscape shooting in TX


DGC1 wrote:
Soooo... saying "foolish" is rude and unmannered? Well take away my political correctness card. As you live in MI, you probably know little or nothing about walking around in Texas despite your self proclaimed "professional knowledge and first-hand experience". I do have first hand knowledge of walking around in Texas and there are plenty of rattlesnakes down here and sooner or later you will probably encounter one. Giving advice like "don't sweat it" to someone who lives down here is indeed foolish advice. If you are offended by this...tough.


Wow. Political correctness? Too many times people mistake being chided for being an a$$ for being oppressed by some phantasmagorical conspiracy of linguistic police, and that's when they shriek out this term. That phrase is soooooo overused and abused by folks, but your usage here must be one the loosest use of it yet that I have seen.

Political correctness is a reflection of your perceptual horizons and your capacity to recognize how linguistic constructs based on oppressive/disenfranchising histories can continue to oppress/disenfranchise, and your willingness to modify your language to avoid perpetuating the oppression/disenfranchisement if and only if you disagree with it.

Rudeness, on the other hand, is a reflection of smallness of character.

I was not remarking on your lack of political correctness.

I was dinging you for being rude.

Very different.

So, while I am suggesting that (and your second post confirms this) you are rude person, I do not know or really care about you being political correct, and nothing in your original post gives me any basis to decide how politically correct you are, even if I wanted to.

OK, on to the you-don't-know-about-Texas-snakes-because-you-live-in-Michigan thing. Well, yes, I live in Michigan now. I have also lived (and worked) in Texas. And, in between, I have lived and worked elsewhere. Funny how modern society allows to move around like that. As I did take pains to note in my post, though, my arid environment experience is minimal compared to my rainforest. And I would not even claim to have a beginning of an idea of Michigan herps, despite my doing my share of "walking around" here because I do not work on herps any more. Of course, as an aside, just because we live in a particular place does not mean we cannot understand the biota of another place (funny how modern travel and science works).

My "self-proclaimed" knowledge is not something I am going to defend here, but my point is that what I have learned about snakes does not just come from the occasional encounter "while walking around", but actual peer-reviewed studies conducted by scientists around the world, including many who have done their share of "walking around" in Texas. Further, the "don't sweat it" advice comes from me, yes. But guess where I got it from? As a lowly undergraduate, from an experienced herpetologist who worked in Kickapoo for years. Is that enough "walking around" in Texas for you to establish sufficient cred? I don't know, and, again, I don't care. All of this is more for the benefit of the OP.

So, as far as you go, we have: rude, ignorant, a priori derogatory dismissal of alternate knowledge-(and science-) based opinions if they run counter to your beliefs? If I were indulge in actual politically-incorrect behavior, I would make some crack about Texas/Texans here based on that. But I recognize stereotypes for what they are, and, given that my own undergraduate experience in Texas has made me many lifelong friends who not only happen to be Texan but also some of the most respected scientists in their respective fields, I would be doing them a far greater disservice than anything to be gained by such a joke. Which would, in any case, be not only politically incorrect, but also rude.

And no, I am not offended about you calling the advice foolish. I am especially and most definitely not offended with you disagreeing. And, believe it or not, I welcome actual arguments or evidence in support of dissenting or alternate perspectives --- I love a good natural history/wildlife/nature discussion -- and I would be happy to stand corrected if convinced by those.



Aug 10, 2015 at 01:32 PM
1       2              4       end




FM Forums | General Gear-talk | Join Upload & Sell

1       2              4       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account