Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
  

Archive 2012 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.
  
 
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


Breitling65 wrote:
How large is your prints? Would it save some mpx on your shots if instead of using 5d2 central focusing point all the time and crop after you would just compose your shots better initially using any of the perfectly focusing 61 points on 5d3? I found using crop much less on 5d3 and that is preserving much of mpx's after pp. I don't know if I would ever look for 40mpx knowing limitations of such huge resolution related to the huge file sizes and remembering that sensor size is remained the same while number of pixels will be doubled
...Show more

I have an Epson 7900 in my studio, so 24" width by whatever length - usually not longer than 36".

"Composing your shots better" is wholly unrelated to the function of AF. Composition is about choosing what goes in the frame, where to place the camera, etc. Not sure at all what you are getting at here.

"I found using crop much less on 5d3 and that is preserving much of mpx's after pp." - I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that you crop less when you shoot a 5D3 than when you shot a 5D2? I rarely crop - aside from the fact that I prefer a 4:3 aspect ratio, but that is unrelated to anything different between these cameras. Sorry, not following your point here or its relevance.

"I don't know if I would ever look for 40mpx knowing limitations of such huge resolution related to the huge file sizes and remembering that sensor size is remained the same while number of pixels will be doubled causing noise etc."

Whew...

Huge file size is not an issue. Hard drive space and camera memory cards are cheap and computers are fast.

The business about doubling number of pixels (or photo sites) causing more noise is an old canard that is a bit of theoretical silliness that has never proved true in actual cameras. It has been raised as a problem (along with "file size," by the way) ever since cameras went from 4 MP to 6MP, and it continued as 6 MP became 8 MP, and then 10 MP, and 12 MP, and 15 MP, and 18 MP, and 21, MP and (from Nikon) 36 MP. The only problem with this story is that if the noise had increased so much with each increase in photo site density, the sum of all of those increases in noise would have made 22 MP cameras so noisy as to be unusable. However, as we all know, we have less trouble with noise now at 22 MP (or 36MP) than we had with the lower MP cameras.

I'm getting the impression that you have some ax to grind here, though darned if I can figure out what it is or why...

Dan



Dec 26, 2012 at 05:27 AM
dwweiche
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


gdanmitchell wrote:
The business about doubling number of pixels (or photo sites) causing more noise is an old canard that is a bit of theoretical silliness that has never proved true in actual cameras.
Dan


And somewhere, Brainiac smiles



Dec 26, 2012 at 06:30 AM
Breitling65
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


gdanmitchell wrote:




Are you saying that printing this size is not enough with 20+ mpx? Composing shots when you have more than one good focusing point is much easier and effective, I am surprised you don't know this but i see many other glitches here as well. Speed of computer or free space having nothing to do with fact that much larger Raw files slowing PP a lot even on "fast" computers and if you are dealing with large numbers of shots same time - effect is even worse.
Besides who said it is better "value" to buy $3K Mac or powerful PC instead of $3K 5D3 and stay with same PC or Mac for another 2-3 years?

Nothing personal, but are you shooting raw and PP after? I saw your shots, many looks like no, but I can't say for sure with such sizes.






Dec 26, 2012 at 11:56 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


Breitling65 wrote:
Are you saying that printing this size is not enough with 20+ mpx?


That is a very confusing sentence. I'll go with the assumption that you meant to write something along the lines of Are you saying that 20+ MP is insufficient for printing at this (24" x 36") size?.

No. In fact I have written precisely the opposite many times.

Composing shots when you have more than one good focusing point is much easier and effective,

"Composing" and "focusing" are completely different things. I don't have any problems with either.

If you are pointing out the obvious fact that there are more AF points in a camera with more AF points, a) no one ever said otherwise, and b) I specifically pointed out that the AF system is among the incrementally improved aspects of the 5D3.

You seem to be making up points that are not mine, so that you can argue with the imaginary person you have made up in your own mind.

I am surprised you don't know this but i see many other glitches here as well. Speed of computer or free space having nothing to do with fact that much larger Raw files slowing PP a lot even on "fast" computers and if you are dealing with large numbers of shots same time - effect is even worse.

First, I "know" quite few things about this issue in that I have a 24" wide printer that I use frequently. Do you have a lot of direct experience producing your own large format prints on your own equipment?

Second, concerning your point about larger files, storage space and processing speed are pretty much the precise issues that folks raise when they express concern about larger image file size from higher resolution images. (And you go on to raise them yourself in your statement!)

Let me try to be clearer for you. If storage price and size and computer processing capability remained constant as file size increased, there would be a functional and cost downside to working with larger files. In that imaginary circumstance, the problems would include: increasing costs for disk storage and camera memory cards and capable enough computers, and/or an increase in the time we would wait for the camera to write files to the card, files transferred to the computer, files to be loaded into our post-process apps, and much more.

But, as with the supposed "problem" of increasing noise as photosite density increases (the opposite of what has actually occurred in cameras), this is another imaginary issue and it is contradicted by the evidence. Cards, computer memory, and hard drives have become more capacious, faster, and less costly as the speed of cameras, file transfer protocols, cards, computer memory, hard drives and their connection systems, and the computers themselves have increased. And, in the end, we pay less for these more capable systems, even without accounting for inflation.

In other words. by comparison to working with a 640k image file from a very early digital camera (which I did in the previous millennium) using that era's networking, storage, and computers... working with a 20 MP or larger file from a contemporary DSLR is faster and less expensive... and produces far better results.

Besides who said it is better "value" to buy $3K Mac or powerful PC instead of $3K 5D3 and stay with same PC or Mac for another 2-3 years?

I didn't, but if that is your way of looking at the issue, then feel free to continue using the older equipment. Everyone has to make their own personal decisions about the point at which upgrading is necessary or appropriate.

Nothing personal, but are you shooting raw and PP after? I saw your shots, many looks like no, but I can't say for sure with such sizes.

OK, you keep bringing up these strange notions that perhaps I'm shooting and processing in some unsophisticated way - not shooting raw or doing any PP!? - and implying that perhaps I don't understand or need a sophisticated approach to photography in order to produce the photos that I create.

In a general sense you could get a better idea of what I shoot and how I work by visiting my web site: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/. However, I'll play along if it will end this distraction - though I'm not optimistic. Your point about the size of files I post online is utterly irrelevant - that is a choice fhat I've explained elsewhere many times, and one that many others in my situation also make.

To answer your question, I virtually always shoot in raw mode. (The only times I might not are with a few high speed sports subjects, where I need to maximize camera buffer depth for burst mode shooting.) It is hard to answer your "PP" questions in a way that doesn't sound condescending or pedantic, so I'll just give a very brief and superficial description and then link you to a post that describes aspects of it as a further example. You and other readers can decide whether I know what I'm doing in post.

My usual workflow is to open imported RAW files in ACR (Adobe Camera RAW), where I sort/select and then do initial basic adjustments that I won't list here. I transfer 16-bit ProPhotoRGB directly into CS6 as smart objects where I apply whatever post-processing is required for the image I'm working on. This can range from as basic as a few sharpening operations and a curve with simpler images to many layers of various types with more complex photographs... etc. My target output is prints, which I produce on my Epson 7900.

In the end, I'm still left wondering what your overall goal is here and, as I wondered earlier, what ax it is that you seem to want to grind.

Dan


View previous versions



Dec 26, 2012 at 05:13 PM
Deezie
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


Got a lot of great shots with that camera. RIP.


Dec 26, 2012 at 05:27 PM
StillFingerz
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


For those that haven't visited Dan's website, I highly recommend you do, bookmark it as well, as you won't enjoy the myriad of images, information and advice/opinion, in only one read. Dan's website is quite the treasure chest, contribution to the art of photography.


Dec 26, 2012 at 05:27 PM
abqnmusa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


5D II was a great full framer

5D III is even better

long live 5D III



Dec 26, 2012 at 06:22 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


StillFingerz wrote:
For those that haven't visited Dan's website, I highly recommend you do, bookmark it as well, as you won't enjoy the myriad of images, information and advice/opinion, in only one read. Dan's website is quite the treasure chest, contribution to the art of photography.


Thanks! :-)

abqnmusa wrote:
5D II was a great full framer

5D III is even better

long live 5D III


+1, and long live the 5DII as well. :-)

Dan



Dec 26, 2012 at 06:49 PM
Breitling65
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


gdanmitchell wrote:
That is a very confusing sentence. I'll go with the assumption that you meant to write something along the lines of Are you saying that 20+ MP is insufficient for printing at this (24" x 36") size?.

No. In fact I have written precisely the opposite many times.

"Composing" and "focusing" are completely different things. I don't have any problems with either.

If you are pointing out the obvious fact that there are more AF points in a camera with more AF points, a) no one ever said otherwise, and b) I specifically pointed out that the AF system is among the
...Show more


I give-up since my questions are not written to trick you or find something wrong with your photography but to get more idea behind "not a value to me" statement. Again up to you what to buy with your money, but for many people 5D2 left very minimal value including myself. I replaced 1DIV body with it and I like better AF and using any focusing points not just central and faster fps than 5D2 and 100% viewfinder etc, many other things 5D2 is missing or limiting.

Enjoy!



Dec 26, 2012 at 09:56 PM
garydavidjones
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


Use 5d2 for flowers, wide-
angle shots, 5D3 for action &
7D for reach on birds &
other critters.
Each camera has its fortes.
3 cameras mean less lens
changing and spread the wear &
tear out.

5D2 & 5D3 are complementary.



Dec 26, 2012 at 10:35 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


My travel cam, here is one with 17-40L iso 400 f/5.6

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8503/8310152492_231ac8e4e8_h.jpg



Dec 26, 2012 at 10:58 PM
M.P.R.
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


5DII is still top of the line as far as I'm concerned. I will continue to use my 5DII until Canon comes up with a decent replacement.

As I use mostly live view to manually focus and shoot landscapes, I don't see the 5DIII or 6D or even 1X as an upgrade. I have no use for better high ISO or better focusing. I've never lost a shot due to the 5DII's focus system.

What I want is better ISO 100 photo quality. Better resolution, and dynamic range. None of these new Canon cameras deliver on that front and that is a damn shame as its been years since the 5DII came out. I would love to spend some money on a real ISO 100 photo quality upgrade.

Canon, what are you waiting for? For me to take my money elsewhere?

Edited on Dec 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM · View previous versions



Dec 26, 2012 at 11:30 PM
nads
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


Ahhhh, finally looks like time to upgrade to a non crop body. I haven't upgraded since purchasing a refurb, discontinued 40D. It is all about the value proposition to me.

This will likely be the first time I keep my old body though... The resale price is just too low for what it is. It is amazing how much of a commodity type item a used, discontinued DSLR has become.



Dec 26, 2012 at 11:30 PM
RKPhotoNJ
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


That means it is time to go buy myself another 5D2. How badass would this setup be:

5D2 with 35L
5D3 with 50L (my favorite setup in the world)
5D2 with 135L

Weddings would fear me... lol



Dec 27, 2012 at 06:26 PM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


M.P.R. wrote:
What I want is better ISO 100 photo quality. Better resolution, and dynamic range. None of these new Canon cameras deliver on that front and that is a damn shame as its been years since the 5DII came out. I would love to spend some money on a real ISO 100 photo quality upgrade.


Agreed,

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8140763912_b93597773a_h.jpg



Dec 28, 2012 at 03:47 AM
BA-photos
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


My first full frame camera and I guess it is same for many. Nobody can take this away!


Dec 28, 2012 at 05:18 AM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


yah, if you really don't care about extremely hi-iso feature and better AF, 5D2 (or any older FF) will get you there just fine. Another with 17-40L, f6.3 & iso400. I would save the $ for a better lens.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8319950733_df5701d0b3_h.jpg



Dec 30, 2012 at 06:51 AM
sailingpilot
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


mttran wrote:
Agreed,

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8140763912_b93597773a_h.jpg



Love that bokeh - is this with your 50L?



Dec 30, 2012 at 01:56 PM
Ralph Conway
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


sailingpilot wrote:
Love that bokeh - is this with your 50L?


In my opinion the bokeh looks horrible



Dec 30, 2012 at 02:06 PM
jctriguy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · 5d Mark II ... discontinued.


sailingpilot wrote:
Love that bokeh - is this with your 50L?


Agreed. Not sure what that photo is supposed to be contributing?



Dec 30, 2012 at 02:41 PM
1       2      
3
       4       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password