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Archive 2012 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)
  
 
Bifurcator
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p.6 #1 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
AE with Ninja-star, yes. Are there any without the ninja star? You mean the red asterisk after the "T" right?

edwardkaraa wrote:
The ninja star is the shape of the aperture blades when slightly stopped down. It resembles a ninja star, and becomes round again I think at around f/5.6. It has an effect on OOF light sources and also denotes an older production lens, as Zeiss switched later on to round blades.

http://www.photo4u.it/files/85_143.jpg


Ah, I see. Sorry'bout that. Yeah the aperture blades are the ninja-star type on my copy.



Dec 16, 2012 at 04:52 PM
helimat
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p.6 #2 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


cogitech wrote:
This is a turning point for me.


+1, is the name really important?



Dec 16, 2012 at 06:41 PM
carstenw
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p.6 #3 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Several mid-aged Leica lenses also have ninja star aperture blades, FWIW. The really old ones tend not to, and the newest ones tend not to, although I don't think these are hard rules.


Dec 16, 2012 at 07:39 PM
Gunzorro
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p.6 #4 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bif -- On a unrelated note: I'm in love with the Circle-K girl (even if she has buck teeth). I'm calling her Samantha Sam Yang. You can tell her!


Dec 16, 2012 at 08:44 PM
Bifurcator
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p.6 #5 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
Yeah, I dunno if it's justified or not but I kinda feel the same way. I think in my case it's just the lame-ass name. Sam Yang? Gimmie a break! That would be like buying a Hyundai car. UG! Probably the same sort of experience too. I'll pass. Maybe if I find one with a scratched up body for $50 or something.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

cogitech wrote:
This is a turning point for me.

helimat wrote:
+1, is the name really important?

Mmm, kinda. Not really. A little maybe. How about the other way around? What do the names "Sony", "Panasonic" mean to you? What comes to mind when you hear "Nikon" or "Canon". I wonder what Leica fans think of the name "Leica"? "Zeiss" anyone?

Of course the appearance and sound of the word itself probably isn't that important - it's not the words God used to speak the universe into existence was one of these company names or anything. On the other hand, they do represent what those companies have strived to obtain and actually attained commercially, politically, and what most of think of when we hear them; art and/in engineering.

What does Samyang say to you when you hear it? How about Hyundai? Neither name invokes a sense of cutting edge quality when I hear them - I can admit to that much. YMMV.


Edited on Dec 16, 2012 at 09:14 PM · View previous versions



Dec 16, 2012 at 08:54 PM
Bifurcator
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p.6 #6 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Gunzorro wrote:
Bif -- On a unrelated note: I'm in love with the Circle-K girl (even if she has buck teeth). I'm calling her Samantha Sam Yang. You can tell her!


Her name is Kako. She's 16 as of 3 months ago. But I'll tell her you're in lust - just don't expect me to admit my own.




Dec 16, 2012 at 09:10 PM
sebboh
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p.6 #7 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
What does Samyang say to you when you hear it? How about Hyundai? Neither name invokes a sense of cutting edge quality when I hear them - I can admit to that much. YMMV.


you can always put a metal name plate on the lens if that's what matters to you. performance is what matters to me.



Dec 16, 2012 at 09:12 PM
Bifurcator
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p.6 #8 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
What does Samyang say to you when you hear it? How about Hyundai? Neither name invokes a sense of cutting edge quality when I hear them - I can admit to that much. YMMV.

sebboh wrote:
you can always put a metal name plate on the lens if that's what matters to you. performance is what matters to me.

Ultimately true but that wasn't the question.





Dec 16, 2012 at 09:15 PM
helimat
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p.6 #9 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
Ultimately true but that wasn't the question.



It kind of was though.



Dec 16, 2012 at 09:19 PM
Bifurcator
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p.6 #10 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Well then you should have asked that instead of what you did.

The answers are similar tho. IMO at least. And I guess to the vast majority of people on the planet as well. Otherwise why the heck would a company do almost any of the things a company typically does. P.R. man, it's powerful! And the lack of it and/or the lack of ethics is extremely disturbing to those of us with a social conscience - and should be IMO too.

It's pretty shallow indeed to think that a company name means nothing at all and the only thing that counts is the plastic crap (toys) they produce - or the quality thereof. Granted that is a fairly typical North American trend tho. <shrug>


Edited on Dec 16, 2012 at 09:38 PM · View previous versions



Dec 16, 2012 at 09:36 PM
 

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sebboh
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p.6 #11 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
Ultimately true but that wasn't the question.



i have no experience with hyundai, i associate samyang with superior optics assembled at low cost, and since you seem to be on korean kick, i associate samsung with cutting edge technology and owning half the country.

you could always buy the vivitar branded samyang 85/1.4, they're japanese (right?) and have some high quality lenses in their history. quite frankly, i've seen pictures of your lens collection, and you've got a lot of worse made worse performing lenses than the samyang. from the economic perspective though, you'll lose money by buying and then flipping the samyang since it is a low end in production lens. the FD and contax you can probably make a profit on.

i would never make judgements on the lens by the company name alone, everybody seems to have some dogs.



Dec 16, 2012 at 09:37 PM
Bifurcator
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p.6 #12 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


No dogs here. If they're good then they're good. Great! I've heard both good and bad about them - and so it goes. I dunno all that much about them - mainly just that their name sounds like yet another sweat-shop start-up copy-catting those who did the work before them.

What's this flipping for profit bullshit about tho? Where did that come from? Or did you just mean that Samyang lenses are a bad investment in general? And also, my comments were NOT racially motivated although it kinda seems like you wanna try and make it look that way. WTF crawled up your bum? Holiday stress? Take a pill maybe.






Dec 16, 2012 at 09:46 PM
helimat
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p.6 #13 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
Well then you should have asked that instead of what you did.

The answers are similar tho. IMO at least. And I guess to the vast majority of people on the planet as well. Otherwise why the heck would a company do almost any of the things a company typically does. P.R. man, it's powerful! And the lack of it and/or the lack of ethics is extremely disturbing to those of us with a social conscience - and should be IMO too.

It's pretty shallow indeed to think that a company name means nothing at all and the only thing
...Show more

Ha ha. I asked if the name was really important, and sebboh answered that it was the performance that mattered to him. Asked and answered....



Dec 16, 2012 at 09:55 PM
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p.6 #14 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


OK.




Dec 16, 2012 at 10:01 PM
sebboh
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p.6 #15 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
No dogs here. If they're good then they're good. Great! I've heard both good and bad about them - and so it goes. I dunno all that much about them - mainly just that their name sounds like yet another sweat-shop start-up copy-catting those who did the work before them.

What's this flipping for profit bullshit about tho? Where did that come from? Or did you just mean that Samyang lenses are a bad investment in general? And also, my comments were NOT racially motivated although it kinda seems like you wanna try and make it look that way. WTF
...Show more

you were asking how we felt about the sound of korean companies, i assumed that you chose hyundai because like samyang it was korean (since i couldn't think of any other similarities). i don't associate korea or korean sounding names with sweatshops at all so i don't really know where your coming from with that. are you saying you just associate all newer companies that don't have a long history with sweatshops and knockoffs?

as to the rest, you've said many times that you buy lots of lenses to try them out and see what you'd like and that you sell most of them off. i was just commenting that you'll take more of a loss on doing that on the samyang.



Dec 16, 2012 at 10:04 PM
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p.6 #16 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


K, I see.

Yeah, there are a lot of sweat-shops in Korea and China these days producing copy-cat goods with copy-cat stylings. I assumed this was common knowledge. Even companies like Apple are getting lots of criticisms for their sweat-shop like ethics in those countries. And corporations like Walmart see the other end of the same stick. To me, it's pretty disgusting just in general, yes.




Dec 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM
sebboh
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p.6 #17 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Bifurcator wrote:
K, I see.

Yeah, there are a lot of sweat-shops in Korea and China these days producing copy-cat goods with copy-cat stylings. I assumed this was common knowledge. Even companies like Apple are getting lots of criticisms for their sweat-shop like ethics in those countries. And corporations like Walmart see the other end of the same stick. To me, it's pretty disgusting just in general, yes.



i associate that much more with china than korea (in fact i believe there are substantially more korean sweatshops in china than in korea). i expect canon, nikon, panasonic, and sony also take advantage (interpret that word either way) of cheap labor in the countries in which they manufacture. no idea who takes care of their low wage workers the best. As you say big american corporations like walmart do it as well, how could one tell by the sound of the name? i actually tend to assume that the made in korea stamp on my rokinon indicates that the workers who made it were probably in better conditions than many of workers assembling products for more well know camera companies. to be honest though, since nearly all of my camera equipment is bought used and was discontinued long ago, i don't pay much attention to where it was assembled or by whom. i'm not giving the companies any money directly. and yes it is pretty disgusting.



Dec 16, 2012 at 10:26 PM
helimat
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p.6 #18 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


sebboh wrote:
i associate that much more with china than korea (in fact i believe there are substantially more korean sweatshops in china than in korea). i expect canon, nikon, panasonic, and sony also take advantage (interpret that word either way) of cheap labor in the countries in which they manufacture. no idea who takes care of their low wage workers the best. As you say big american corporations like walmart do it as well, how could one tell by the sound of the name? i actually tend to assume that the made in korea stamp on my rokinon indicates that the
...Show more

In fact, not only has (South) Korea become recognised for quality products, (both of my TV's are made in Korea) it has also has a high quality of living these days, especially compared to China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea



Dec 16, 2012 at 10:47 PM
Bifurcator
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p.6 #19 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


"Defenders of sweatshops cite Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan as recent examples of countries that benefited from having sweatshops."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweatshop

"Given these realities, and the fact that other facilities in Korea hardly live up to the government's description of "workers' heaven," could the Kaesong Industrial Complex be as good as it gets? Yes, if you equate clean and modern facilities with protection of basic workers rights..."
http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/10/07/not-sweatshop-no-workers-heaven

And of course as sebboh points out, so much of it is outsourced to sweatshops in other countries. It's the use of them, not their location necessarily. Like in Apple's case...

But sweatshops aren't the whole issue. And probably far from the biggest issue either. There are lots and lots of both international trade issues as well as patent issues where ethics come into play! There are also the positions these corporations take on the world political stage and the kinds of policies they throw their weight behind.

Then of course there are the pennies from Grenache in post 9 back on page five. He's nowhere near the first person I've heard this from. Though in my case it's from personal relationships I hold here in Japan. I can't say anything 1st hand because I've never owned one. Long ago I received some gifts of few products from Samsung and they were pretty much total crap! Lower quality than even the incredibly crappy level of Panasonic. In more recent times Samsung has stepped up to take some responsibility for their sweatshops and additionally turned some corners on some international policy backing - So I gotta give them credit for that. I even bought two Samsung smart-phones.

Anyway, maybe we can get this thread back on topic with the differences between the two lenses named and the experiences people have had with them? I probably wouldn't have started the thread if I knew it was going to go off into samyang land.







Dec 17, 2012 at 02:36 AM
crazeazn
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p.6 #20 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)


Hyundai means new and big like gen dai in Japanese


Dec 17, 2012 at 08:22 AM
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