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pburke
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p.85 #1 · p.85 #1 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Henry and Peter,

Are you guys getting press passes for these track shots? It's been a while since I have been there and I remember lots of fencing being built over the years blocking the views.


depends. I shoot vintage with regular tickets there, IMSA and Indycar this year were for an agency with full access. If there's a track you don't really need the media pass, it is Road America. Fences are there, but there are dozens of shots that are possible without access. In some areas, the best shot is from the spectator area anyway.


Turn 7 upstream look comparison

No media pass


The pretty Chevron B16

Media pass


GTLM vs GTD Porsche



Turn 6 bridge view

No media pass


The Patrick Kujala/Brian Thienes PRO-AM Super Trofeo Huracan

media pass


Adderly Fong wins on Saturday


Pit stops

No media pass


Closing in on a Munoz pit stop

media pass


Crazy pit lane


Turn 7 rear views

No media pass


Sandblasting the 911

media pass


Curb Cleanup


I could go on with about 6 or 7 more corners where it makes almost no difference. In some places, the shot is better from behind the spectator fence, but few media shooters know that. They are sucked to the wall, as if closer is always the best angle.

Some shots from the past are now gone, like the rears in turn 8, but you can't shoot there with a media pass either. No holes. Turn 5 uphill was fenced in a long time ago, and down in Canada corner, the fence changes very little, just the composition.




Aug 18, 2017 at 01:05 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #2 · p.85 #2 · Automotive Thread


Thanks! I used to be a turn 5 junkie, I think that spot got fencing the worst.


Aug 19, 2017 at 01:08 PM
henry albert
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p.85 #3 · p.85 #3 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Thanks! I used to be a turn 5 junkie, I think that spot got fencing the worst.


Turn 5 in the good old days. This is Paul Newman in 1984 or 1985. F2 and a 300/4.5 (I think). Ektachrome.

All my shots are from the spectator areas. Some good spots have been lost to the fences-T5, the Sweep, T8. But as Peter said, many good angles still exist.








Aug 19, 2017 at 04:11 PM
henry albert
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p.85 #4 · p.85 #4 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Thanks! I used to be a turn 5 junkie, I think that spot got fencing the worst.


The chain link along the Sweep into T5 had another unfortunate effect: crew members can't go over to the fence now and check speeds with radar guns. I used to love to prowl the fence during the great CART years, looking for guys with guns seeing what the competition was doing. One very rainy day I stood behind a man checking top ends just upstream from the shut-off point. Rahal was the fastest at 185mph, ripping down the straight pulling an enormous rooster tail of water. All the big guns were over 180.



Aug 19, 2017 at 04:24 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #5 · p.85 #5 · Automotive Thread


Very cool, thanks!


Aug 20, 2017 at 12:49 PM
pburke
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p.85 #6 · p.85 #6 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Thanks! I used to be a turn 5 junkie, I think that spot got fencing the worst.


turn 5 is good action but crappy photos. Never was any good. Race photos are compromised by the heat that is generated by all that dark paved runoff - all my IMSA race start photos are totally soft, all to atmospheric influence. The inside of 5 is ok for a tight cockpit shot with media pass, but you have no background, as you are above the cars. Boring. Shooting up into the woods from inside 5 used to be a good shot, but that's indeed all fences. The outside fence already saved a number of spectator lives, so not going to complain about that. See this clip why that fence makes a lot of sense: https://youtu.be/tK9LAdUpLtk

In terms of race action, T5 or T6 looking at T5 are probably the most likely spots to see something, but for pretty photos, I'd hang around T6/7 or the carousel if I bought an admission pass




Aug 20, 2017 at 01:54 PM
pburke
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p.85 #7 · p.85 #7 · Automotive Thread


henry albert wrote:
The chain link along the Sweep into T5 had another unfortunate effect: crew members can't go over to the fence now and check speeds with radar guns. I used to love to prowl the fence during the great CART years, looking for guys with guns seeing what the competition was doing. One very rainy day I stood behind a man checking top ends just upstream from the shut-off point. Rahal was the fastest at 185mph, ripping down the straight pulling an enormous rooster tail of water. All the big guns were over 180.


So the track's speed indicator at the big billboard in T5 isn't good enough for the crews?

I have some shots of Zanardi coming down in the morning after a big rain fall, track wet, but sun out, rooster tails up to the top of the trees, back lit. Only got that shot once in 7 years of shooting every CART race, and the show was over after 1 lap as the cars sucked all the water off the track in no time.




Aug 20, 2017 at 01:58 PM
pburke
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p.85 #8 · p.85 #8 · Automotive Thread


you must wonder what this place must have been like on a rainy day with CART cars coming down to Canada Corner at full tilt.


Scenes from the Forest

In 1997, they stopped the rain race because here was a "river" running across this area of the track. Also, some guys were lifting for the Kink (e.g. Charlie Nierburg, a Coyne Rent-a-Rider), creating huge speed differentials with the fast guys who took the kink flat, even in the rain...



Aug 20, 2017 at 02:01 PM
Surfnsun
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p.85 #9 · p.85 #9 · Automotive Thread




henry albert wrote:
Turn 5 in the good old days. This is Paul Newman in 1984 or 1985. F2 and a 300/4.5 (I think). Ektachrome.

All my shots are from the spectator areas. Some good spots have been lost to the fences-T5, the Sweep, T8. But as Peter said, many good angles still exist.


Love that shot of Newman in turn 5! Got any more of Newman racing?



Aug 20, 2017 at 08:39 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #10 · p.85 #10 · Automotive Thread


pburke wrote:
turn 5 is good action but crappy photos. Never was any good. Race photos are compromised by the heat that is generated by all that dark paved runoff - all my IMSA race start photos are totally soft, all to atmospheric influence. The inside of 5 is ok for a tight cockpit shot with media pass, but you have no background, as you are above the cars. Boring. Shooting up into the woods from inside 5 used to be a good shot, but that's indeed all fences. The outside fence already saved a number of spectator lives, so not going
...Show more

Wow, that was quite a hit. Red flag indeed. I had no idea those fences had ever been dinged, and assumed that were a bit of over protection. I now know otherwise.

BTW, does 300mm pretty much get you by? I have never carried anything longer there, but I have never cropped to the level it looks like both of you are doing. Now that I have an 810, I may take more of that approach.



Aug 21, 2017 at 04:30 PM
 

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pburke
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p.85 #11 · p.85 #11 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Wow, that was quite a hit. Red flag indeed. I had no idea those fences had ever been dinged, and assumed that were a bit of over protection. I now know otherwise.

BTW, does 300mm pretty much get you by? I have never carried anything longer there, but I have never cropped to the level it looks like both of you are doing. Now that I have an 810, I may take more of that approach.


the shots I showed above are all over 500mm. 300mm on a crop is a stretch. It's all big glass country, even with media pass. Several of the shots I posted without media pass were taken with full frame body and 600mm with a 1.6 teleconverter and may even be cropped, so think 1000mm. Under 60mm, you would need to shoot inside turn 6, turn 12 inside, panning in the carousel, inside turn 1 (300 too much, 200mm better). For the typical RA shots, I'd say bring a crop body and a 200-500mm, while with the D810, you should pack a 1.4x TC to make up for that. Shoot in 1.2x crop to get the FPS and you're gonna crop these anyway.

D810 with a 180mm in turn 1, spectator access


Jamie Constable in the 1974 Graham Hill Lola Cosworth T370

D810 with a 180mm in the Carousel, spectator access


James French gets the Jordan up to speed

D600 with a 600mm spectator access - easily could shoot that with a 300mm and 1.2x crop. I just like to go tight when I can


I'm pretty sure this is Bruce Hamilton in the orange 1970 Brabham BT36


And why I said you want a big lens in other areas

D600, 600mm f/4.0 with TC16a for 960mm, and the thing is probably cropped down to what a 1200mm lens would get you from this behind the spectator fence location (and only the local insiders know the exact spot)


1969 Surtees TS-5 Formula 5000






Aug 21, 2017 at 07:14 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #12 · p.85 #12 · Automotive Thread


Really good info, thanks!

I have a 300 f4, the old slow one, and 80-200, also slow, and a couple of TCs, 1.4 and 2.0. I have no DX body.

I also am a little short on talent compared to you two. Need to get back there next year regardless. That Surtees shot is spectacular. The heat coming off those pipes is great, I love Formula 5000 cars.



Aug 22, 2017 at 01:29 PM
henry albert
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p.85 #13 · p.85 #13 · Automotive Thread


pburke wrote:
So the track's speed indicator at the big billboard in T5 isn't good enough for the crews?

I have some shots of Zanardi coming down in the morning after a big rain fall, track wet, but sun out, rooster tails up to the top of the trees, back lit. Only got that shot once in 7 years of shooting every CART race, and the show was over after 1 lap as the cars sucked all the water off the track in no time.



I didn't know there was one. I hardly ever go there now because of the fencing.

I loved when it was wet. You could hear them coming, and see the big rooster tail, but for a while you couldn't see the car. At the start of a race, after all the cars had passed, so much water had been atomized that it hung in the air like fog.

We were there for the postponed race in 84 or 85. We were on the hill above T5 for the start. Rain was just pelting down. There was standing water at the apex. When Sneva came through on the pace lap it was so deep his front wings were submerged. A big wave sort of rolled up his car and dumped into the cockpit. They actually threw the green, but Little Al hydroplaned off between the Kink and Canada, and the red came out. They restarted the race two weeks later.



Aug 23, 2017 at 02:40 PM
henry albert
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p.85 #14 · p.85 #14 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Really good info, thanks!

I have a 300 f4, the old slow one, and 80-200, also slow, and a couple of TCs, 1.4 and 2.0. I have no DX body.


They'll work well at T6 and between 6 and T7. The 80-200 is good at the fence inside the Carousel. I shot this about half way between 6 and 7 with a 70-200 at 200mm on FX.





  NIKON D4    200mm    f/11.0    1/80s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Aug 23, 2017 at 02:56 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #15 · p.85 #15 · Automotive Thread


Racer magazine just ran a giveaway signup thing on Facebook and it really looks like one of your images PBurke. Couldn't find a photo credit.


Aug 24, 2017 at 06:12 PM
pburke
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p.85 #16 · p.85 #16 · Automotive Thread


Max Power wrote:
Racer magazine just ran a giveaway signup thing on Facebook and it really looks like one of your images PBurke. Couldn't find a photo credit.


hmmm - that would be poor form but they really don't need to use my stuff - they do have some contracts out there to use agency images. In fact, they may have a deal with LAT, who I shot for at three events this year.

Here' s shot LAT could let them use, although it never was uploaded to them. No time at the track to find all the good stuff, and once the "edits' are sent to clients, they don't want any more images added to the database. So there's a lot of stuff like this sitting around you'll only find on Flickr now, but technically, it is LATs stuff and their clients could use it.


Into the light



Aug 25, 2017 at 04:17 PM
henry albert
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p.85 #17 · p.85 #17 · Automotive Thread


pburke wrote:
D600, 600mm f/4.0 with TC16a for 960mm, and the thing is probably cropped down to what a 1200mm lens would get you from this behind the spectator fence location (and only the local insiders know the exact spot)



I'm neither local nor an insider, but I know the spot. This what you get there with a 200-400 at 400, a crop body and a 1.4 cheater.





  NIKON D500    500mm    f/6.3    1/1600s    500 ISO    0.0 EV  




Aug 25, 2017 at 05:03 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #18 · p.85 #18 · Automotive Thread


pburke wrote:
hmmm - that would be poor form but they really don't need to use my stuff - they do have some contracts out there to use agency images. In fact, they may have a deal with LAT, who I shot for at three events this year.

Here' s shot LAT could let them use, although it never was uploaded to them. No time at the track to find all the good stuff, and once the "edits' are sent to clients, they don't want any more images added to the database. So there's a lot of stuff like this sitting around you'll
...Show more

I guessed it was agency, how else would they even get it? I can't find it now, of course.



Aug 25, 2017 at 06:01 PM
Max Power
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p.85 #19 · p.85 #19 · Automotive Thread


henry albert wrote:
I'm neither local nor an insider, but I know the spot. This what you get there with a 200-400 at 400, a crop body and a 1.4 cheater.


Next year before I go I will have to ask you for the spot.

Traditionally, I have been with non-shooting friends, so most of my activity was in the pits, or turn 5 or Canada. Nest year I want to branch out.



Aug 25, 2017 at 06:02 PM
pburke
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p.85 #20 · p.85 #20 · Automotive Thread


henry albert wrote:
I'm neither local nor an insider, but I know the spot. This what you get there with a 200-400 at 400, a crop body and a 1.4 cheater.


argh, so one of the locals wasn't wearing camo while shooting there...

anyway, I chopped back some branches this summer that should expand the location a little or allow two shooters to fit.



Aug 25, 2017 at 06:10 PM
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