Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
  

Archive 2012 · Samyang 50mm ?
  
 
redisburning
Offline
• • •
Account locked
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Samyang 50mm ?


I'd want a 50/4 APO. I don't care how big they have to make it, either.

A boy can dream, right?



Dec 05, 2012 at 12:04 AM
mpmendenhall
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Samyang 50mm ?


redisburning wrote:
I'd want a 50/4 APO. I don't care how big they have to make it, either.

A boy can dream, right?


That sounds like something that might come out of Cosina/Voigtlander (and be quite small), rather than Samyang --- CV has previously produced highly corrected, slow Apo lenses (180/4, 125/2.5, 95/3.5), so re-introducing the 180/4 and the 125/2.5 in SL-II versions would be perfectly complemented by a 50/4 APO-Macro SL-II.



Dec 05, 2012 at 12:13 AM
thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Samyang 50mm ?


Phillip Reeve wrote:
something like a 50mm leica summilux-m clone for mirrorless cameras please!


The Summilux works because of extremely exotic and expensive glass, I don't think that falls into the Samyang camp.



Dec 05, 2012 at 12:55 AM
p666
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Samyang 50mm ?


mpmendenhall wrote:
I don't think a Samyang 50/1.0 is likely, it's just one of the few things Samyang could do to make a potentially hot-selling lens in the already crowded fast-fifty market. Samyang's other offerings have succeeded by filling niches where comparable lenses weren't available for anywhere near the price (how many decent 24, 35, or 80/1.4s, or 14/2.8's, are available at even twice Samyang's price?). On the other hand, the 50/1.4 market is saturated with solid performers starting at ~$15. A new lens at 50mm has to be pretty special to succeed; super aperture is one possibility (in line with Samyang's
...Show more

Which $15 lenses are you referring? Are you talking about second hand lenses? Not sure any manufacturer selling new lenses is trying to compete against older lens that may still be available on the 2nd hand market.

In the current lens department, there aren't too many options available for Canon other than the Sigma 50mm, and it's own rather old (and rumoured to soon be replaced) 50/1,4. The rest seem to all be $800+. When/if the "midrange" 50mm replacement comes to market, it's likely to come with IS like it's most recent primes, and be up around the $800 mark.

Even older 3rd party lens like the Rokkor don't work well on Canon bodies, as nobody has produced a decent adapter that allows infinity focus.



Dec 05, 2012 at 02:14 AM
Mescalamba
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Samyang 50mm ?


p666 wrote:
Which $15 lenses are you referring? Are you talking about second hand lenses? Not sure any manufacturer selling new lenses is trying to compete against older lens that may still be available on the 2nd hand market.

In the current lens department, there aren't too many options available for Canon other than the Sigma 50mm, and it's own rather old (and rumoured to soon be replaced) 50/1,4. The rest seem to all be $800+.

Even older 3rd party lens like the Rokkor don't work well on Canon bodies, as nobody has produced a decent adapter that allows infinity focus.


Leica R, Contax C/Y, Olympus OM, Nikkor, CV, anything for M42 .. and Rokkor can have mount replaced aswell as Canon own Canon FD (or was it FL?). Theres so many 50mm lens that one cant even possibly use all of them.

Yea and Zeiss..



Dec 05, 2012 at 02:17 AM
mpmendenhall
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Samyang 50mm ?


p666 wrote:
Which $15 lenses are you referring? Are you talking about second hand lenses? Not sure any manufacturer selling new lenses is trying to compete against older lens that may still be available on the 2nd hand market.

In the current lens department, there aren't too many options available for Canon other than the Sigma 50mm, and it's own rather old (and rumoured to soon be replaced) 50/1,4. The rest seem to all be $800+. When/if the "midrange" 50mm replacement comes to market, it's likely to come with IS like it's most recent primes, and be up around the $800 mark.


Samyang sells manual-focus only lenses at extremely low prices. Cheap, used, manual-focus lenses are definitely competition for their market segment (unlike where current Canon/Nikon/etc. are aiming), along with new lenses from the major manufacturers. Samyang has done well so far by producing designs that fall in the rare intersection between low price and top performance.

Even discounting the used market, there are already reasonably-priced (not "$800+") contenders in the manual-focus 50mm lens space, e.g. the Zeiss Z* 50/1.4 ($725), Voigtlander 58/1.4 SL-II ($599) --- compare this to the situation with 85/1.4s, 35/1.4s, 28/1.4s, or 14/2.8s, and you'll see that the 50mm range is a lot more "crowded" than where Samyang has previously targeted lenses. It would take something awfully good to attract people away from the manufacturer's offerings, Zeiss/Voigtlander solid quality/reputation, and used offerings for bargain hunters.

Samyang could probably do something interesting here if they tried (extreme aperture and/or unusually well corrected), but my guess is they will pick more "low hanging fruit" in less crowded areas first, e.g tilt-shift lenses and other fast wide primes (how about an 18/2.0 for between the 14 and 24?), or maybe a slower supertelephoto.

P.S.: my Rokkor 58/1.2 works awesome on my Canon 5D (though mirror clearance is tight). My Oly, Nikon, Takumar, Zeiss/Contax, Leica, and Mamiya 50mm-ish lenses also reach infinity just fine.



Dec 05, 2012 at 03:09 AM
saneproduction
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Samyang 50mm ?


thrice wrote:
Don't think F/1.0 or faster will fit through the throat of anything but a Canon mount (if we're talking SLR). Same reason you don't see an 85/1.2 on Nikon.
Unless they want to use GRIN optics or something super intense to maintain the requisite entrance pupil with a smaller rear element.

Screw the other cameras, want F1 or faster!



Dec 05, 2012 at 03:16 AM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Samyang 50mm ?


I think they might make a 50mm f/1.2. The real Nikon competition is the A.i.s. 50 f/1.2, which is widely available and fairly cheap. If Samyang can make one for less that $500 with excellent performance or for less than $400 with very good performance, it ought to sell reasonably well and fit well with their other offerings.


Dec 05, 2012 at 03:42 AM
JimBuchanan
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Samyang 50mm ?


Mescalamba wrote:
Coatings are main reason for colors those Minolta lens have.

Coatings from Minolta are most likely now in possesion of Sony.


Also, in addition to the coatings is the glass.

More to the point, Minolta was one of a few lens makers, that manufactured their own glass (or had it manufactured for them), and therefore had the color consistency from lens to lens that only a select few lens makers such as Leica and Zeiss could produce.

Those coatings "in possession of Sony", what are they going to do with them? The new ion beam coatings are the current state of the art.


Edited on Dec 05, 2012 at 02:28 PM · View previous versions



Dec 05, 2012 at 05:17 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



JimBuchanan
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Samyang 50mm ?


S Dilworth wrote:
Someone who knows their thetas from their elbow, like mpmendenhall above, would be better placed to answer this than I, but my understanding is that the mount and minimum back-focus distance (about 38 mm for a Nikon SLR) together impose limitations on the numerical aperture[/url].


Yes, I agree that mpmemdenhall knows his thetas from his elbow, for sure , and also it was a big leap when Canon progressed their design of the FL55/1.2 class lens to the FD 50L by shortening the focal length by 5 mm given the lens register, and improving the image quality at closer range due to the modified floating element design. There is an optical reason the len manufacturers couldn't make a f/1.2 lens any shorter than 55mm on a retro focus SLR camera. The higher refractive glasses changed that.



Dec 05, 2012 at 05:33 AM
JimBuchanan
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Samyang 50mm ?


thrice wrote:
The Summilux works because of extremely exotic and expensive glass, I don't think that falls into the Samyang camp.


Not to mention a floating element design, right? When that lens made it's first appearance, who else had a floating element normal 50mm lens, plus or minus 15-25mm, rangefinder or SLR?



Dec 05, 2012 at 05:38 AM
Mescalamba
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Samyang 50mm ?


JimBuchanan wrote:
Also, in addition to the coatings is the glass.

More to the point, Minolta was one of a few lens makers, that manufactured their own glass (or had it manufactured for them), and therefore had the color consistency from lens to lens that only a select few lens makers such as Leica and Zeiss could produce.

Those coatings "in possession of Sony", what are they going to do with them? The new ion beam coatings are the current state of the art.


Most likely nothing. They will just sue anyone trying to use it.

Didnt know that Minolta made own glass. I know they color matched most lens to each other. Or at least series of lens. For example late f4 series (24-50, 35-70, 70-210) had near identical colors.

I would say Leica lens are quite color consistent (even today), Zeiss (C/Y era) was, today Cosina Zeiss not that much, actually I would say that their own CV lens are bit more color matched then Zeiss line.



Dec 05, 2012 at 08:30 PM
ZoneV
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Samyang 50mm ?


A 50mm Samyang?
Probably they build one, and photographers could get a Holy Samyang Trinity 35/50/85?

I think a fast and cheap 50mm lens could be possible, probably f/1.2 much cheaper than Canon or old Nikkor lenses. They will have competition with the old manual lenses like the Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2 (I have infinity too) and such.
But I think Samyang's marketing reasearch will most likely ingnore old outdated lenses.

Whats avialable new with f/1.2 and ~50mm for 24x36mm DSLR?
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 for ~1200 Euro. Nothing for Nikon, Sony, Pentax, FourThirds!

So they could sell such a lens for probably 500 Euro - I think this would be tempting for many (not for me).
But it could be that the get competition from Kiev, they showed a 50mm f/1.2 prototype on the Photokina in their cabinet.



Dec 05, 2012 at 09:31 PM
sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Samyang 50mm ?


ZoneV wrote:
A 50mm Samyang?
Probably they build one, and photographers could get a Holy Samyang Trinity 35/50/85?

I think a fast and cheap 50mm lens could be possible, probably f/1.2 much cheaper than Canon or old Nikkor lenses. They will have competition with the old manual lenses like the Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2 (I have infinity too) and such.
But I think Samyang's marketing reasearch will most likely ingnore old outdated lenses.

Whats avialable new with f/1.2 and ~50mm for 24x36mm DSLR?
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 for ~1200 Euro. Nothing for Nikon, Sony, Pentax, FourThirds!

So they could sell such a lens for probably 500 Euro -
...Show more

isn't the nikon 50/1.2 ais still available new and isn't it priced near 500 euro? I would think they'd have to undercut it's price a bit more.



Dec 05, 2012 at 10:38 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Samyang 50mm ?


You can pick up a 50/1.2 AI-S for a bit less than 400 Euro in great condition with a bit of patience. I have this lens on my permanent saved search on eBay, waiting for a great price. I missed one at 380 once. You can also still buy it new, of course, but with a lens which has been around this long, that doesn't really make sense.


Dec 05, 2012 at 10:45 PM
sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Samyang 50mm ?


carstenw wrote:
You can pick up a 50/1.2 AI-S for a bit less than 400 Euro in great condition with a bit of patience. I have this lens on my permanent saved search on eBay, waiting for a great price. I missed one at 380 once. You can also still buy it new, of course, but with a lens which has been around this long, that doesn't really make sense.


yeah, i was talking about the new price. i've seen good copies of used ones go for as little as $300.

is there much of a market for people willing to manual focus and unwilling to consider used lenses?



Dec 05, 2012 at 11:18 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Samyang 50mm ?


There are some apparently perma-listed 50/1.2 AI-S copies on German eBay. Prices vary wildly for new copies. They start somewhere around 500-600 Euro. I cannot imagine that there is much of such a market, unless people buy them hoping to get one of the last new copies, for collecting purposes.


Dec 05, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Yakim Peled
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Samyang 50mm ?


A fast 50mm would surely be very nice but I'd rather first see the 24/3.5 in the streets.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Dec 06, 2012 at 01:04 PM
1      
2
       end




FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password