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Archive 2012 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?
  
 
PetKal
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Today I "poked" again those few of my contacts who have frequent dealings with Canon Canada. Nobody knows anything about 200-400L, but some are harbouring a sort of wishful idea that it might appear in stores this summer.

Thankfully, I am not running out of long lens options, so I do not have to wait for the arrival of that "messiah" zoom. For all we know, Canon might have shelved the project until some future date, as it is less likely that they would have aborted it completely.



Jan 29, 2013 at 12:29 AM
RobDickinson
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Joshua Holko has just got one, not sure if its a loaner or a production copy.


Jan 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM
EB-1
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


How about an f/4 and an f/2.8? That would be two useful versions.

EBH



Jan 29, 2013 at 01:10 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


PetKal wrote:
Today I "poked" again those few of my contacts who have frequent dealings with Canon Canada. Nobody knows anything about 200-400L, but some are harbouring a sort of wishful idea that it might appear in stores this summer.

Thankfully, I am not running out of long lens options, so I do not have to wait for the arrival of that "messiah" zoom. For all we know, Canon might have shelved the project until some future date, as it is less likely that they would have aborted it completely.


Should make an appearance at the Winter Olympics I'd say



Jan 29, 2013 at 03:24 AM
PetKal
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Should make an appearance at the Winter Olympics I'd say


Right on........2018 South Korea.



Jan 29, 2013 at 03:33 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


PetKal wrote:
Right on........2018 South Korea.


Bit optimistic!



Jan 29, 2013 at 04:29 AM
PetKal
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Bit optimistic!


It's not that......it is just that I have unwavering faith in Canon's new product development capability.



Jan 29, 2013 at 04:33 AM
rscheffler
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


abqnmusa wrote:
The 200-400 is priced far too high -- beyond consideration.


So I was just browsing DPR and it looks like Nikon has announced their new 800 along with a matched 1.25x TC... all for a cool $18,000!

FWIW, I have it on good authority that the 200-400 will be available this year.



Jan 29, 2013 at 04:45 AM
PetKal
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Nikkor 800.........two fluorite elements and a dedicated/matched TC......nice !
The price not so nice.



Jan 29, 2013 at 05:02 AM
rscheffler
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


It seems Nikon is intent on taking Canon's pricing lead while leapfrogging over Sony's $15K 500/4.


Jan 29, 2013 at 05:04 AM
 

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PetKal
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Right or wrong, Nikon seems to be positioning their 800 as the ultimate dSLR lens accross all systems, from Canon to Tamron.....and the best is usually very pricey.


Jan 29, 2013 at 05:12 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


PetKal wrote:
Nikkor 800.........two fluorite elements and a dedicated/matched TC......nice !
The price not so nice.


Anybody seen the MTF curves of this lens? Makes Canon's 800 look decidedly second rate

Nikon 800 bare lens





with 1.25x converter (1000 f/7.1)






Canon 800 bare lens







Jan 29, 2013 at 05:55 AM
RobDickinson
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Cant really compare mtf between manufacturers but the nikon one looks good!
Price of a car though.



Jan 29, 2013 at 06:22 AM
PetKal
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Anybody seen the MTF curves of this lens? Makes Canon's 800 look decidedly second rate



MTF curves aside, I do not think 800L is the Canon's best achievement as far as lenses go. Therefore, it wouldn't come as a shock to me if Nikkor 800 turns out to be a better performer.
Hopefully, Canon will get serious with 800L MkII, if we live long enough to see it.



Jan 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


PetKal wrote:
MTF curves aside, I do not think 800L is the Canon's best achievement as far as lenses go. Therefore, it wouldn't come as a shock to me if Nikkor 800 turns out to be a better performer.
Hopefully, Canon will get serious with 800L MkII, if we live long enough to see it.


Canon stated the 800L was their best lens when released, although the mk II have surpassed it. They said it was optically superior to the 600 mk I.

I believe they will do a mk II within a few years, but expect another massive price hike, to well over $15K.



Jan 29, 2013 at 09:38 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Canon stated the 800L was their best lens when released, although the mk II have surpassed it. They said it was optically superior to the 600 mk I.

I believe they will do a mk II within a few years, but expect another massive price hike, to well over $15K.


Upon its release, Canon also said 1DMkIII was their best focussing camera ever.
It would not surprise me at all if 800L MkII price catches up to Nikkor 800.

Now, get a hold of this: Nikkor 800 is 100 g heavier than 800L. One reason for sure is that they've got 20 elements in their 800, while 800L has "merely" 14. Now, Nikon also couldn't drop the front objective protective meniscus as a weight saving measure, because the first optical element is made of delicate fluorite.

In addition, Nikkor 800 has not improved on the 800L MFD, they are basically identical.



Jan 29, 2013 at 09:48 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Anybody seen the MTF curves of this lens? Makes Canon's 800 look decidedly second rate


Any MTF that pegs the curves at 1.0 is highly suspect. Either its creator is deeply ignorant of the basic laws of optical physics (esp. diffraction), thus incompetent to be producing MTFs, or has discovered how to break fundamental laws of physics (but decided not to tell anyone else and become the famousest scientist ever). Both Canon and Nikon are guilty of publishing complete rubbish for MTFs --- these days, there's no lack of computing power to properly calculate the design behavior of the lens (or, even better, measure real production samples). Both companies clearly have highly competent engineers; it's a pity they let the marketers control their technical literature.



Jan 29, 2013 at 10:01 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


mpmendenhall wrote:
Any MTF that pegs the curves at 1.0 is highly suspect. Either its creator is deeply ignorant of the basic laws of optical physics (esp. diffraction), thus incompetent to be producing MTFs, or has discovered how to break fundamental laws of physics (but decided not to tell anyone else and become the famousest scientist ever). Both Canon and Nikon are guilty of publishing complete rubbish for MTFs --- these days, there's no lack of computing power to properly calculate the design behavior of the lens (or, even better, measure real production samples). Both companies clearly have highly competent engineers; it's
...Show more

You seriously think the marketing department produced the MTF curves or influenced them? They may be theoretical rubbish, but this is what would have come from their lens simulation software. You do realise the MTF curves for the mk II superteles are very close to 1 as well over most of the sensor.

500 f/4 mk II







Jan 29, 2013 at 10:09 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · If Canon 200-400mm had it in two versions?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
You seriously think the marketing department produced the MTF curves or influenced them? They may be theoretical rubbish, but this is what would have come from their lens simulation software. You do realise the MTF curves for the mk II superteles are very close to 1 as well over most of the sensor.


This might be what would come out of lens simulation software in the 1970s, but presumably a major optics manufacturer has access to slightly more up-to-date computing resources that could actually estimate an MTF that looks vaguely like a realistic, measured MTF. Leica releases "computed" MTFs, too, but they at least do it right (including proper diffraction physics in the calculations, and producing results that match actual lens performance). Zeiss releases measured MTFs. The only reason I can imagine for Canon/Nikon releasing MTF curves that are hilariously unphysical (and don't provide much actual info about real lens performance, once all fairly good lenses are pegged near 100%), is that marketing decided the results looked better --- any physicist/engineer should be ashamed to put their name on something so ludicrous!



Jan 29, 2013 at 10:17 PM
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