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Archive 2012 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment
  
 
ben egbert
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


I have reason to believe the sensor to mount alignment is off on my 1DS-mk3. I see OOF on the left side that is hard to explain because the middle and right will be in focus. It is present with all my lenses to some degree. That would be: 17-40, 16-35 (just acquired as a replacement for the 17-40) 17TSE, 14 Samsung, 24-70 f2.8 Mk2.

I also saw it on my recently sold 24TSE mk2 and 35L. Longer lenses don't seem to show this.

The problem is most evident when testing wide open. Since I usually shoot at f8 or more the problem is masked. It also seems worse as you get wider and of course faster. But I do get home with some f8 landscapes that are soft on the left.

Note, I used a 500f4 on this camera for years. I tried to never support the lens from the body, but it could have tweaked the alignment. The sensor was also replaced shortly after I got the camera.

I plan to send it in under CPS for cleaning and will ask to have it checked. My problem is that I expect Canon to say its in spec.

I am looking for people with experience with this and how it was fixed or not fixed.



Nov 27, 2012 at 06:00 PM
davenfl
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


It is possible for repair techs to shim the sensor but what you are describing almost sounds more like a lens mount misalignment where it is slightly tilted. Both the sensor and lens mount can be realigned and it will not be the first time Canon has seen the problem. I had a similar issue with a Nikon D2HS many moons ago and Nikon pulled and fixed the lens mount. Just make certain you clearly describe the problem and sent a couple of photo examples. They should be able to get it right for you.

Dave



Nov 27, 2012 at 06:18 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


I plan to send it in, just want to make sure I get the right attention. I have been returning Canon stuff to Irvine since 2004. At least 75% of the time its returned with a note saying its in factory spec.

I have a local astro conversion guy who just automatically aligns the sensor because he has such a low opinion of factory spec. Micro adjust is a pretty good example of why factory spec is not so hot.



Nov 27, 2012 at 08:15 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Here is a link to a test I just did. I shot from f2.8 to f22, the problem persists at f8 and goes away at f11.

I was focused on the center wall column. Note how soft the left side of the wall is compared to the right side of the wall. I am pretty sure the camera is square to the wall, and it is also leveled.

This could be the lens, I will send it in too. But I have seen this with other lenses, just not as pronounced.








A full size can be seen here.

http://ben-egbert.smugmug.com/Utility/16-35-test/26764325_nztvh2#!i=2240417263&k=8dZDJBX



Nov 27, 2012 at 09:11 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


That looks like a shot from my 24-105L, except mine was soft on the right. Had Canon fix it and it seems AOK now.


Nov 27, 2012 at 09:17 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


So was it lens or camera? Even my 17TSE has some of this. This issue shows up sooner with a fast lens that is known for somewhat soft edges. But I am pretty sure all my lenses have it to some extent.


Nov 27, 2012 at 09:31 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


ben egbert wrote:
So was it lens or camera? Even my 17TSE has some of this. This issue shows up sooner with a fast lens that is known for somewhat soft edges. But I am pretty sure all my lenses have it to some extent.


I just took the lens in as I didn't see the issue on any other lens and ruled out a camera problem, and they claimed to have realigned it.



Nov 27, 2012 at 10:00 PM
sivrajbm
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Yep sounds like its been tweaked. My Ds3 didn't need any MA on any of my lenses.


Dec 04, 2012 at 02:08 AM
Paul Gardner
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


When the sevice letter came out about the oil spatters on the 1DSIII sensor and the recall for service I took the opportunity to send in my camera and all my lens (6) to Virgina CPS. Everything came back perfect with no MA adjustments on any lens. This shows that some techs can do a good job of alignment. I'm sure the problems arise if the techs are pushed too fast by management.


Dec 05, 2012 at 05:05 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Its at Irvine now, the lens and camera, both being repaired at no charge. The lens under warranty, the camera out of warranty. CPS paying off.

I have not yet heard what they are finding, it will be on the paperwork that comes back with the camera. I will keep you posted after I test it. I am hoping the found something with the camera even though it will mean doing MA all over again.

All my lenses run +4 +7 now, so it would be wonderful if none needed MA.



Dec 05, 2012 at 06:01 PM
 

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Monito
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Lens mount alignment would affect wide angle lenses much more than telephotos.

Either sensor or lens mount could be out of alignment with each other, but it is much easier and far more likely that the mount would shift because it gets frequent stress during lens changing and when heavy lenses are mounted and the camera flexed with them.

Treat your lens mounts with care and don't expect them to swing heavy lenses without consequences.



Dec 05, 2012 at 06:12 PM
Jeffrey
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Ben, you always seem to either not like your equipment or think you are having problems. Canon's comment on 75% of the returns to you should be an indicator. I find that concentrating on the job and the pleasure of learning and executing good photographic skills is a better way to interface with your gear. I haven't bought a lens or body in some time and just use the stuff I have to make pleasing images.


Dec 05, 2012 at 08:21 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Sorry Jeffery, I guess the image I posted does not tell the story. I am a retired engineer, and I like things to work at the potential. I also know that any mass produced product can be tuned up.

The technical part of photography and joy of using the gear is a large part of what I enjoy.

I do like my equipment, I just want it to work as well as possible. I keep my vehicles in top condition too.



Dec 05, 2012 at 09:03 PM
Jeffrey
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Ben, I know all about that. I am sort of a gear head, too. I'm a mechanical design engineer, have been an engineering manager, quality assurance manager, CNC machine programmer, and have owned a high precision CNC engineering company for about 25 years. I own and use some very high quality 4x5 gear and a 1DsIII (like you) with a bag of canons top lenses and a bunch of Zeiss as well. I'm not saying this to show off or anything like that, just to relate that we have common background. I try not to let my gear dominate my experience even though I, too, love using all that stuff. I don't worry about perfection, but rather excellence and personal satisfaction. I always remember it is art and has a lower tolerance than spacecraft. It's more fun that way.


Dec 06, 2012 at 03:52 AM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Jeffrey wrote:
I don't worry about perfection, but rather excellence and personal satisfaction. I always remember it is art and has a lower tolerance than spacecraft. It's more fun that way.


Ben showed an example in post #4 which would bother me if I were getting the same kind of images. If that's perfection, color me guilty as well.





Dec 06, 2012 at 07:28 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Jeffrey wrote:
Ben, I know all about that. I am sort of a gear head, too. I'm a mechanical design engineer, have been an engineering manager, quality assurance manager, CNC machine programmer, and have owned a high precision CNC engineering company for about 25 years. I own and use some very high quality 4x5 gear and a 1DsIII (like you) with a bag of canons top lenses and a bunch of Zeiss as well. I'm not saying this to show off or anything like that, just to relate that we have common background. I try not to let my gear dominate my
...Show more

I understand this, but I am pretty sure there is a problem. The camera had to go in for dust cleaning anyway, so why not ask for this issue to be checked. If it is not the camera, then for sure the new lens needed adjusting. There is a good chance I caused the problem by mounting a heavy lens (500f4) on it. Or the sensor replacement might have been the cause.

I started with film in 1981. But I never mastered manual focus and few of my images were in focus so I gave up until my kids were through college and I could afford an AF system. I need it to work.

Canon always said the camera/lens was in factory spec, but then they introduced micro adjust and guess what, they all needed it. My 35L required +15 clicks. It was horrible without it and fantastic with it.




Dec 06, 2012 at 03:50 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Shutterbug2006 wrote:
Ben showed an example in post #4 which would bother me if I were getting the same kind of images. If that's perfection, color me guilty as well.



+1



Dec 06, 2012 at 03:50 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Ok, the camera and lens just arrived back from Irvine. The lens was reported to be out of adjustment causing the focus to operate incorrectly.

The camera was checked and it was reported that the AF assembly was incorrect causing incorrect AF. electrical adjustments were made to fix it. Flange to sensor was checked, no comment about condition. Sensor cleaned. Not sure how af adjustments fix an asymmetric focus issue.

Well now I need to check how it works. I wish they had said something about the sensor alignment. I also asked for shutter count and got no reply.

I have to re-micro adjust and then do focus tests, so I will report the results.

Ok, +7 ma is still the best adjustment so no change at least for this lens. Also first check shows the soft left side is unchanged, but I need to wait until this afternoon to get the light on my target.

Still have 8 dust spots at f22. Probably dead pixels or dust between filters. These spots have persisted for years. No chance yet to do a full dust test.



Dec 06, 2012 at 06:15 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


Ok, here is my verdict. First I had to call Canon to find out if the sensor to flange was out of spec, they checked it but did not mention the results. The guy on the phone said if it was out they would have repaired it.

Well it is still soft on the left side at f2.8 but cleans up pretty well by f5.6 using center point AF. If I use live view focus, I can make the left side as sharp as the right, but at f2.8 they are both soft on the 16-35. I am not expecting this lens to be sharp on edges at f2.8, just equal.

I was hoping I would not need to rely on live view which does not work well for me on the 1DS-mk3 and especially at UWA where details are so small.

I did get some good news. My shutter count is only 34k. I was expecting much more. I guess this camera has a lot of life left in it.



Dec 06, 2012 at 08:52 PM
Mr Joe
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1DS-mk3 sensor alignment


I've done a bunch of testing with various wide angles on multiple 5D II's and had similar problems: http://www.joereifer.com/words/2010/11/15/canon-5d-mark-ii-wide-angle-lens-sharpness-issues/


Dec 06, 2012 at 08:57 PM
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