mastering the 5dII

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mastering the 5dII

Mescalamba
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p.3 #1 · mastering the 5dII

timballic wrote:
I agree this looks horrible, all those blocked shadows, but then I wouldn't have used Landscape but Neutral (or occasionally Standard) profile in DPP.
I liked the one you posted using CP7,(What is CP7?)

Thats my stupid shortcut for Capture One Pro 7.

Colorwise it has some pretty interesting features, but color profile is probably as bad as default LR.

Nov 24, 2012 at 07:31 PM

wfrank
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p.3 #2 · mastering the 5dII

The 5D2 sensor hasnt suddenly gotten so bad overnight that it only lends itself to styled images. This is *the* FF cam that has rendered a myriad of exquisite pro and semi-pro images since 2008. The world hasnt really changed that much since yesterday. Right, Sony is ahead today but it doesnt make anything else obsolete. I am very likely to consider things like A99 and D800 great cams whatever Canon comes out with tomorrow or the day after. As I do today with 12MP cams such as D700 or 5DC. And they dont require über-people like Rödluvan or OneAnt to do good, they're simply great image machines as they are.

Nov 24, 2012 at 07:36 PM

mortyb
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p.3 #3 · mastering the 5dII

I don't think anyone claims the 5D2 is not able to give great images. But it has some limitations, and two of those are noisy shadows and so-so color. This becomes very clear comparing to other cameras.

Nov 24, 2012 at 07:49 PM

wfrank
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p.3 #4 · mastering the 5dII

Right, I was merely trying the widen the raw-development discussion somewhat.

In my experience DPP is significantly better than ACR for some deficiencies such as banding. ACR sucks on that. For images I like I do quite a lot of PP. Still I never turn to DPP though it would e.g. enable shadow lifting better. From CS5 the noise reduction of ACR superseded DPP capablities, but before that it wasnt. Either way the "problems" are not significant enough to motivate DPP for me.

Nov 24, 2012 at 08:12 PM

corndog
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p.3 #5 · mastering the 5dII

Perhaps the improvements with sensors since 2008 from Sony/Nikon does make the 5D2 sensor worse?

Nov 24, 2012 at 08:15 PM

sebboh
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p.3 #6 · mastering the 5dII

corndog wrote:
Perhaps the improvements with sensors since 2008 from Sony/Nikon does make the 5D2 sensor worse?

only comparably. it still takes great pictures.

the biggest issue is that if you are used to shooting one of the latest sony sensors you probably have to change the way you expose and PP images if you switch to a 5DII.

Nov 24, 2012 at 08:46 PM

Phillip Reeve
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p.3 #7 · mastering the 5dII

sebboh wrote:
corndog wrote:
Perhaps the improvements with sensors since 2008 from Sony/Nikon does make the 5D2 sensor worse?

only comparably. it still takes great pictures.

the biggest issue is that if you are used to shooting one of the latest sony sensors you probably have to change the way you expose and PP images if you switch to a 5DII.
that's the thing, i think we all have seen many great images taken with a 5d2, so lets focus this thread on how to achieve great colors and how to manage dynamic range.

Regarding color-profiles: There must be some color-profiles for ACR, can anyone recommend one? Are they a real improvement over the supplied ones? ACR's default profile fir the nex-5n is pretty bad when reds are involved, in 4.1 or so they gave us some camera-profiles which are much better. I don't know how big the difference would be with the 5d2.

If i find the time i will test out that Canon Converter next week plus i will try to shoot the Nex-6 with my Zeiss/Minolta glass against the 5d2 with the 24-70L to see how close i can get with the Canon. Not that i want to get the same colors out of the 5d2 but similarly good colors.

I should get other lenses but right now i don't have the money for that plus i will have to give the 5d2 back in 6 months time so it doesn't make too much sense to build a lens kit for it, i have great lenses for my Nex. So will probably get my Minolta 58/1.2 leitaxed and buy a Samyang 35/1.4 but thats it.

Nov 24, 2012 at 09:54 PM

philber
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p.3 #8 · mastering the 5dII

Philip, Contax 50 f:1.7, even with adapter, is cheaper than getting one lens leitaxed or a Samyand, and you get your money back at the end. Look at the pics, and you will see great colours and contrast from it.
As to getting the most out of 5DII, I have shot that camera extensively, and my advice is: don't extend DR and hope to get good stuff from highlight recovey or pushing shadows. I
know, compared to you I am a primate at PP, but I am not sure even your talent can stretch that sensor where it doesn't want to go. And in this respect, NEX 5N is clearly better IMHO.Why do you think I sold all my Canon gear when I found out my spanking new 5D III couldn't do what my 5N and my 7 did easily?

Nov 24, 2012 at 10:03 PM

sebboh
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p.3 #9 · mastering the 5dII

my recollection is that luka always said the 5DII had considerably better highlight recoverability than his leica or NEX. i suspect the 5DII will benefit dramatically from exposure to right while the NEX works very well when you expose to preserve the highlights.

Nov 24, 2012 at 10:03 PM

philber
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p.3 #10 · mastering the 5dII

Luka had a NEX c3, if my memory serves, not one of the better ones.

Nov 24, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #11 · mastering the 5dII

http://rawstudio.org/svn/rawstudio/trunk/profiles/

http://rawstudio.org/blog/?p=798
(URL from profiles taken from this web)

Just put them into Adobe - LightRoom - Resources - CameraProfiles - Adobe Standart or Camera (there under 5DMK2). And use via that menu in LR (camera calibration).

It works, just tried it now.

Nov 24, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #12 · mastering the 5dII

philber wrote:
Luka had a NEX c3, if my memory serves, not one of the better ones.

C3 is sorta "good one", only annoying thing except very small form factor is base ISO of 200. Maybe its tiny bit more noisy, but thats all.

Nov 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM

dcjs
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p.3 #13 · mastering the 5dII

Mescalamba wrote:C3 is sorta "good one", only annoying thing except very small form factor is base ISO of 200. Maybe its tiny bit more noisy, but thats all.

One important factor when considering one of these cameras is that there is no practical way to work off a tripod with longer exposure times with the C3, since it does not have any interface for a remote release, and the self timer is fixed at 10 seconds.

IQ-wise, if highest quality at base ISO is what you're after, there is a distinct difference. I have both cameras and have done comparative tests at base ISO (100 and 200 respectively). 5N has better resolution and much less color noise.

In short, for tripod work at base ISO, the 5N is the one to get, for offhand shooting at high ISO the differences probably get smaller.

Nov 24, 2012 at 11:04 PM

philber
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p.3 #14 · mastering the 5dII

I have had both, and my observations mirror DCJS's

Nov 24, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Phillip Reeve
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p.3 #15 · mastering the 5dII

sebboh wrote:
my recollection is that luka always said the 5DII had considerably better highlight recoverability than his leica or NEX. i suspect the 5DII will benefit dramatically from exposure to right while the NEX works very well when you expose to preserve the highlights.
I gave the shots I took with the 5d2 more exposure than I would have done with my 5n, but my feeling was that it was at best marginally better at recovering highlights but I will check it when I find the time.

thanks @Mescalamba will try them when i get home on monday

@philber the 50/1.7 sells for about 120€ and i don't own a c/y to canon adapter plus i would really like to see the Minolta 58/1.2 on a fullframe sensor, that's why i want to take that route.

Nov 25, 2012 at 12:10 AM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #16 · mastering the 5dII

If you would expose that one with tree shadows, that I processed, bit more it would be lost. Even now it has partialy reconstructed highlights.

As far as I know, 5DMK2 doesnt have somehow amazing highligths. It should have 1 eV top in them.

Its one of those cases when DxOmark is actually right. It says that 5N has 1 eV more of DR at base ISO. And as EV isnt linear, it means 2x data. I would say its pretty visible on real pics. Plus unlike 5DMK2, you can lift shadows easily.

I guess for harsh light conditions CPL or grad ND is good solution. Or bracketing.

Nov 25, 2012 at 02:24 AM

freaklikeme
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p.3 #17 · mastering the 5dII

Phillip Reeve wrote:
sebboh wrote:
my recollection is that luka always said the 5DII had considerably better highlight recoverability than his leica or NEX. i suspect the 5DII will benefit dramatically from exposure to right while the NEX works very well when you expose to preserve the highlights.
I gave the shots I took with the 5d2 more exposure than I would have done with my 5n, but my feeling was that it was at best marginally better at recovering highlights but I will check it when I find the time.

thanks @Mescalamba will try them when i get home on monday

@philber the 50/1.7 sells for about 120€ and i don't own a c/y to canon adapter plus i would really like to see the Minolta 58/1.2 on a fullframe sensor, that's why i want to take that route.

Why the 5DII and not the a900? The 58/1.2 will be usable at infinity on the a900 and the prices are great since the release of the a99.

Nov 26, 2012 at 04:09 AM

sebboh
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p.3 #18 · mastering the 5dII

freaklikeme wrote:
Why the 5DII and not the a900? The 58/1.2 will be usable at infinity on the a900 and the prices are great since the release of the a99.

i believe it's because the 5DII is free and already in his hands.

Nov 26, 2012 at 05:34 AM

Phillip Reeve
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p.3 #19 · mastering the 5dII

sebboh wrote:
freaklikeme wrote:
Why the 5DII and not the a900? The 58/1.2 will be usable at infinity on the a900 and the prices are great since the release of the a99.

i believe it's because the 5DII is free and already in his hands.
that's the reason, the 5d2 is borrowed from a friend for 6 or 7 months and then i will have to give it back. For me it is a chance to see how much the benefits of a fullframe camera are worth for me, but i won't invest much money in this system.
If i felt that carrying a big slr around was a good idea and someone gave me 5000€ i would probably get a Nikon d800 because of its Sony sensor.

Nov 26, 2012 at 02:12 PM

carstenw
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p.3 #20 · mastering the 5dII

You can now buy the D800 new for about 2400 Euro...

Nov 26, 2012 at 02:52 PM

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