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Archive 2012 · Canon User: Rented D600
  
 
happyant
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p.3 #1 · Canon User: Rented D600


http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/not-surprisingly-d600-dust-issue-gets-better-over-time


Nov 30, 2012 at 10:19 PM
LizzieShepherd
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p.3 #2 · Canon User: Rented D600


Well, as a former Canon user, who has moved to Nikon and bought a D800E and D600, first from the UK, second an import, and had an AF problem with the first, and dust/oil problem with the second, I wonder if I'm a statistical miracle! ;-)
Amazingly it didn't put me off and I have changed systems, for a number of reasons - I think the ability of the Nikon sensor to deal with challenging light is one of the biggest pluses for me.
I have a replacement D800E, thanks to the support of Castle Cameras, from whom I bought it - they dealt with Nikon on my behalf when the first came back improved but not perfect.
The imported D600 is from Panamoz and I can only compliment them on their service as well. They have offered me a refund - I have declined, hoping it will improve over time, as I'm given to believe should be the case. Whatever is there is not just dust, because it smears - but the second cleaning was far easier and quicker than the first and only took 3 sensor swabs, so I hope things will keep improving.
My only real disappointment with the D600 is to find it is every bit as prone to hot pixels for long exposures without LENR as the D800/E - if not more so. All the reports I read suggested that would not be the case, but even a 2 minute exposure in the cold brings plenty of hot pixels.
The D800/E has needed no cleaning, despite many lens changes and far more use than the D600 - but at least I've had a lot more practice for when it does!



Nov 30, 2012 at 10:39 PM
gbounce
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p.3 #3 · Canon User: Rented D600


SchnellerGT wrote:
(I would desperately miss my Canon 135L.)


i can't speak for the dust / oil problem, but you're in luck since nikon has the wonderful 135 f/2 dc!



Dec 01, 2012 at 01:26 AM
kevindar
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p.3 #4 · Canon User: Rented D600


the new offerings from nikon (mostly the sony sensor) had me very tempted also to switch from canon.
Picked up a d600 also. the sensor is truly excellent. its a lot of camera for the money. Autofocus is good, though not quite as good as 5d3 (which is where I was coming from). I liked the ergonomics on my 5d3 better. At the end of the day, I like my 5d3 better (I know its significantly more money), and felt that my photography will not benefit from switching. I also have a collection of lenses that I am very happy with.
I think the d600 is truly a great value, great camera. If it has been the successor to 5d2, canon shooters have been ecstatic.



Dec 01, 2012 at 06:08 AM
lexdiamonnyc
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p.3 #5 · Canon User: Rented D600


Comparing a 5D3 to a D600 is like comparing and S-class Mercedes Benz to a 5-series BMW...........Apples to Bananas.


Dec 01, 2012 at 07:15 PM
NickHenderson
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p.3 #6 · Canon User: Rented D600


I switched from Canon to Nikon for the D600. It's an INCREDIBLE camera. Clean high ISO images (ISO 3200 and 6400 are perfectly usable out of camera, even better with NR in LR4), ridiculous dynamic range, great resolution, etc. I'm primarily a landscape shooter, and it's a dream.

I had dust issues after around 500 shots, but it might have flown in there when changing lenses outside. I wet-cleaned the sensor (first time ever doing this), it was pretty simple. Hasn't really been an issue since. Few spots here and there.



Dec 01, 2012 at 07:58 PM
friedmud
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p.3 #7 · Canon User: Rented D600


I did the very same thing. Owning a 7D and XSi and a bunch of Canon lenses I rented a D600 and a 24-70 for the weekend from lensrentals.com. I was rewarded with this:

http://500px.com/photo/14938023

The next week I sold all of my Canon gear and snagged a D600 and 50mm 1.8G. Then grabbed a 24-70g. I couldn't be happier.

The images that come out of this thing are phenomenal. Blows away my 7D for sure. It just feels like the camera does it's job and my only job is to be creative and envision the shot that I want.

Yes, it is dusty. I blow my sensor off before I head out into the field. Over time it is slowing down though and the tradeoff for the incredible color and DR is more than worth it to me!



Dec 01, 2012 at 11:59 PM
NickHenderson
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p.3 #8 · Canon User: Rented D600


^nice pic, but I don't see why your 7D, or XSi for that matter, couldn't get that exact same shot.


Dec 02, 2012 at 12:37 AM
kevindar
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p.3 #9 · Canon User: Rented D600


I am with Nick. Fried, with all due respect nothing exceptional or demanding about the image you linked too. the primary advantage of d600 for landscape over a canon full frame offering would be dynamic range, which is not very taxing in that image. also with d800 you can print larger. Here is an example of what I am talkin about. here is not an austhetically very good picture which however impresses the point. shooting in to the sun, sunset, original





processed.





the shadows are pushed too much in this image, and I should boost the contrast some, but it demonstrates the amazing lattitute in DR that the d600 provides.


Edited on Dec 02, 2012 at 01:01 AM · View previous versions



Dec 02, 2012 at 12:57 AM
 

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kevindar
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p.3 #10 · Canon User: Rented D600


lexdiamonnyc wrote:
Comparing a 5D3 to a D600 is like comparing and S-class Mercedes Benz to a 5-series BMW...........Apples to Bananas.

yes, and no. I have considered the d800, but to me, having the 3 custom function setting on my 5d3, being able to shoot full frame at 6 fps, and an AF system which is good and reliable in center, left, and right of the field, trumps on board flash, better dynamic range, and higher MP. sometimes the higher end models actually lack the features that you are looking for, regardless of the price. I would have loved to have the d600 sensor in a 5d3, without a doubt. I would also go so far to say that I would still take the d600 if it was an EF mount.



Dec 02, 2012 at 01:01 AM
friedmud
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p.3 #11 · Canon User: Rented D600


NickHenderson wrote:
^nice pic, but I don't see why your 7D, or XSi for that matter, couldn't get that exact same shot.


Thanks. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression... I wasn't necessarily presenting that as an example of DR... but I do disagree that my XSi or 7D could have created that right out of the camera.

Firstly, the DR actually is pretty high. I was using a 2 stop Lee soft ND grad to try to balance things a bit "pre-sensor" but there was nothing I could do about the rocks being bright and the shadows on the mountains would definitely have caused a loss of data on my 7D due to noise.

Speaking of noise, it would have been all over the damn place on my 7D. One of the things I hated the most about my 7D is how much noise there was all over the place... even at ISO 100. At ISO 100 there was so much noise in any sort of shadow that they were totally unrecoverable... but there would also be a ton of noise on any "flat" surface... especially in the sky. Any attempt to add sharpening to a 7D file just crates more noise. Any application of NR enhanced the already strong low pass filter effects giving you mushy details. To deal with that I would often overexpose slightly and pull it back in post... Sacrificing highlights for less noise. So frustrating.

one of the things you can't see in that image I posted before (because resolution is crazy low on 500px) is just how beautiful and clean the entire image is. I could make an enormous print out of it without any trouble. Also, I only needed to set up my tripod, frame the shot I wanted and pull the trigger once to get that shot... it was exactly right the first time. On my 7D the metering for landscapes was so unreliable I always shot them in center weighted average... And always used exposure bracketing. It is such a relief to use matrix metering on the D600 and have it just nail even complex lighting situations. It's like it's reading my mind.

One such situation is this photo:

http://500px.com/photo/18983351

That is a better example of a high DR photo. Even with the 2 stop ND grad I still needed to push the shadows at least a stop and pull the highlights a stop. But, the camera did a great job of balancing everything as best it could to give me all the info in the RAW file necessary to produce that image... all in matrix mode.

This camera just does, by default, what other cameras only do after screwing with them for quite a while. It is truly astonishing just how effortless it is to get it to capture the scene properly. It sometimes still makes me say "Wow! Why don't all cameras work this way?"

If you are reading this and thinking it is hyperbole, do what I did and rent a D600 amd you'll see what I mean...



Dec 02, 2012 at 06:05 AM
BluesWest
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p.3 #12 · Canon User: Rented D600


At ISO 100 there was so much noise in any sort of shadow that they were totally unrecoverable

That's a ridiculous statement. I've been shooting the 7D since it was released, and I recover shadows from ISO 400 images using LR4 or PS CS6 with no problems, and certainly without excessive noise. By claiming that there is uncoverable shadow noise at even lower ISO values, such as ISO 100, you've completely destroyed your credibility.

John



Dec 02, 2012 at 06:23 AM
kevindar
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p.3 #13 · Canon User: Rented D600


Friedmud, interesting perspective. as someone who has been shooting canon for a long period of time, that certainly has not been my experience. dont get me wrong, I was truly impressed by the 2 stops extra DR of d600, but I have had perfectly good landscapes ( at least from a technical stand point) with canon crop cameras and full frame cameras.


Dec 02, 2012 at 07:03 AM
krickett
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p.3 #14 · Canon User: Rented D600


BluesWest wrote:
That's a ridiculous statement. I've been shooting the 7D since it was released, and I recover shadows from ISO 400 images using LR4 or PS CS6 with no problems, and certainly without excessive noise. By claiming that there is uncoverable shadow noise at even lower ISO values, such as ISO 100, you've completely destroyed your credibility.

John


John, I have a Canon 60D (same sensor as a 7D), a D7000, and a D800. While I like the 60D for certain functional reasons, I definitely concur with friedmund that shadow noise, even at low ISO, is a problem for the 60D sensor.

The difference is mostly that the 60D creates this splotchy color noise, while Nikons create fine grain noise that cleans up very easily. Due to this, I usually 'shoot to the right' more with the 60D to lessen deeper shadows, even at low ISO. By comparison, Nikon sensors have much more latitude. The difference is huge for APS-C sensors, but I think it might not be quite as huge when comparing FF sensor. Fred Miranda's comparison though, kinda confirms that there still is a big gap.



Dec 02, 2012 at 07:31 AM
hijazist
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p.3 #15 · Canon User: Rented D600


Very nice shot Friedmud, however, comparing the 7D to the D600 is so unfair on many levels but mainly due to sensor size. It's like comparing the D300 to the D600. The D300 also produced noise at 400+ ISO so does that make it junk and force me to sell it and all my Nikon gear and buy a 5D MKIII with Canon lenses?! Did you try the 5D MKIII or MKII for that matter before the switch? It's great that you are satisfied with your D600, I am thrilled, but the comparison with the 7D is unobjective IMO. Maybe an objective one would be with the 6D


Dec 02, 2012 at 10:33 AM
friedmud
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p.3 #16 · Canon User: Rented D600


hijazist wrote:
Very nice shot Friedmud, however, comparing the 7D to the D600 is so unfair on many levels but mainly due to sensor size. It's like comparing the D300 to the D600. The D300 also produced noise at 400+ ISO so does that make it junk and force me to sell it and all my Nikon gear and buy a 5D MKIII with Canon lenses?! Did you try the 5D MKIII or MKII for that matter before the switch? It's great that you are satisfied with your D600, I am thrilled, but the comparison with the 7D is unobjective IMO. Maybe
...Show more

I do agree about the comparison between the 7D and D600. However, it's a compariosn that mattered to me (and a lot of other people with 7D's) because of the upgrade path from 7D.

I'm mainly a landscape shooter... and I bought a 7D wanting more megapixels, the weather sealing and custom modes. I also received great ergonomics, wonderful AF (which is one reason lots of other people buy that camera) and a much better viewfinder among other things. In many ways I loved the 7D, but the sensor leaves MUCH to be desired for low ISO tripod based shooting.

Because of that, I was looking to move to full-frame to try to shed some of the noise and snag some more DR. However, I had bought quite a bit of EFs gear including the (wonderful) 17-55 f/2.8. An upgrade to a Canon full-frane would have meant selling all of my lenses and buying new... the same as a switch to Nikon. So this was a great time for me to see what everyone in the landscape community had been talking about with the Exmoor sensor in the D800 and the D600 had just come out and was getting great reviews for it's sensor. Also, Nikon has some lovely wide angles and new primes that are great for landscape usage.

Now let's talk about price. As an enthusiast who makes zero dollars from photography there are certain limits imposed by myself (and my wife!) on what I can spend. ~$3500 (at the time) for a 5D3 was not in the cards. Not too mention that it's low ISO capability is well eclipsed by the D600 at $2100.

The 6D would have been interesting but the crippled it a little too much. It was the camera I should have wanted. It had the right price and a full frame sensor. But, the removed the joystick and only gave it a couple of AF points and it was clear that it wasn't a new sensor... so it still wasn't going to be able to compete with the D600/800 at low ISO (it's out now, so we'll find out about that shortly).

Overrall the trajectory that Canon is on seems anti-landscape. They keep coming out with great (and expensive) telephotos and cameras that have lightning fast AF and great high ISO capabilities for the sports shooter... but they have been essentially ignoring the low ISO landscape shooter for many years. Their wide angle offerings are weak (I bought the 16-35 f/2.8 and went through two copies that were way soft on one side or the other... even on my crop sensor! Before just returning it) and they still have essentially the same low ISO performance that they've had for 5+ years while Nikon has forged ahead with Sony sensors.

One final note: Canon prices are getting harder for the enthusiast to deal with. It used to be that Canon glass was cheaper for comparable quality to Nikon, but that's starting to not be the case. For instance, Canon has come out with several f/2.8 primes this year with image stabilization... and they want rediculous prices for them. Why you would want an f/2.8 prime is beyond me anyway... but WITH stabilization? and with that price? So weird. Even the new 24-70 is crazy expensive... and still with no IS (even though there are third party lenses that do have IS). The new f/1.8 primes from Nikon are awesome... and they kick but at the price/performance ratio...

Sorry for any typos. I'm laying in my hotel room typing this on an iPad (try not to travel with a laptop anymore... More room for camera gear that way!).

Hopefully that clears up why I was comparing a 7D and a D600. It was just the particular situation I was in.



Dec 02, 2012 at 04:27 PM
friedmud
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p.3 #17 · Canon User: Rented D600


BluesWest wrote:
That's a ridiculous statement. I've been shooting the 7D since it was released, and I recover shadows from ISO 400 images using LR4 or PS CS6 with no problems, and certainly without excessive noise. By claiming that there is uncoverable shadow noise at even lower ISO values, such as ISO 100, you've completely destroyed your credibility.

John


Ah yes. You did catch me ina bit of hyperbole there. I do tend to do that when I really get going. Thanks for reining me in :-)

Of course there is some recoverabilty to shadows on a 7D. I shot many wonderful landscapes with the 7D myself like this one:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/friedmud/8061766184/in/set-72157631709494328

They look great at normal Flickr or 500px size. If you go any bigger (Like fulll-screen on my 27" iMac or 30" monitors at work) you can start to see quite a bit of noise showing up in "flat" color regions and shadows.

Up to a certain size they actually print really well as well... that noise actually can help an inkjet printer grade between slight color transitions and give the look of detail in the shadows. But once you start printing rather large (13x19 or larger in my experience) the noise starts to show up again. This might or might not be a problem for most people, but it bothered me quite a bit. Especially after spending $1500 on a camera.

The last straw was when I was shooting a storm that was moving in over the moutains to the south of where I was. The stormy part of the sky was a bit dark. I wanted to bring out a bit more detail in the clouds so I pushed the exposure a bit in that area... and what came out? Rain. Well, not rain. Vertical noise bands that were so uniform that it looked like it was raining (it really wasn't) over the fairly flat grey blue of the sky. Yuck.

I'll try to post some examples when I get home. I do apologize for going a bit overboard in my description of the issues with my 7D! I'm just so damn excited by everything I see out of my D600 that it's hard not to feel very negative feelings toward e last sensor I used :-)



Dec 02, 2012 at 04:49 PM
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