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Archive 2012 · Canon User: Rented D600
  
 
Stdon
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon User: Rented D600


For those that need to be spoon fed, if dust does come back typically it's because you didn't blow out the entire box. With the mirror slapping around if there is dust in the box that will stir it up. Blow out the box properly and it should be fine.


Nov 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM
markly86
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon User: Rented D600


Just my experience. I have had the D600 for about 6weeks and maybe 600 shots. So far no dust or oil spots and I really like the camera.


Nov 22, 2012 at 12:37 AM
mmurph
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon User: Rented D600


For those who haven't read anything about the D600 sensor & dust, here is some background:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/10/d600-sensor-dust-issues

This is not an issue that is easily resolved, even for professionals like the folks at Lens Rentals. It is an issue that is unique to the D600.



Nov 22, 2012 at 02:27 AM
hijazist
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon User: Rented D600


lexdiamonnyc wrote:
wait, people are passing on a camera because of 'dust on the sensor'....?? WTFBBQ is wrong with you people?!?!? that is hands down the dumbest thing I've heard all month, and I live in NYC where people have diarrhea of the mouth.....

just clean the damned thing, my 7yr old daughter can do it with supervision, a grown adult should be able to do it blindfolded.



Using derogatory language does not make you cool or support your argument. Bragging about your sensor cleaning ability is off-topic. Do you have a D600? If not then don't talk or accuse others of being dumb without having one.

Everyone knows by now that the problem with the D600 is a design flaw with the majority of them. First of all it's not dust it's oil and dust, and it's internal. The design of the shutter curtain is causing this. People clean their sensors four or five times and after 500 clicks of each time you get those spots. And it's not just a couple of spots, it's tens if not hundreds of them.

Here's time lapse put to good use. It accumulates dust without even changing the lens or being outdoor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cY30lEMv8o (Courtesy to cbreiland)

I am not saying people should freak out or bash the camera, because it's truly an amazing camera, but at the same time people shouldn't bash anyone who addresses this issue. If everyone is like you then the D800 left focus issue would have never been acknowledged or fixed, same applies to the D7000 back focusing issue. I remember back then when the D800 was new in the market people used to bash anyone complaining about the D800 left focus, then it became a fact and finally Nikon addressed it.

The D600 is targeted towards those who want an FX prosumer camera on a limited budget. Being on a limited budget means when you get a Camera that has such a major flaw it's going to be be upsetting to say the least.



Nov 22, 2012 at 02:31 AM
DavidWEGS
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon User: Rented D600


Having used mine for about two months, and cleaning the sensor once (carefully), it now has no apparent spots. I shoot long exposures with this and a F11 - F22. So, no complaints on that front.

However, my only complaint is really to do with the AF performance. It is good, but not great in lower light. I find the D7k a bit better and the D700 better still.

Now, compared to Canon of 2008/9 (5d and 5d2), I would say its great. YMMV.



Nov 22, 2012 at 05:20 AM
blutch
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon User: Rented D600


FWIW, I've had mine a month. No spots. B


Nov 22, 2012 at 07:36 AM
bmwrider75
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon User: Rented D600


I've had mine for 6 wks. There were a handful of spots, only visible at F22 shooting a blank wall, and I only noticed them because I started looking based on these threads. There was never anything visible in normal shooting conditions (which for me, is rarely over f/8-11) I have never shot blank walls at F22 with my previous DSLR's and have no idea whether they had dusty sensors either.

My local repair shop blew out the mirror box with compressed air and now it seems perfectly clean. *maybe* just the slightest faint hint of a spot or two using the same F22/blank wall test, but certainly not a practical issue at all, and again, my previous cameras likely were similar. The repair shop did say it looked a little dirty in the mirror box.

I've shot about a hundred frames since having it blown clean with no problems, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

AF performance is much, MUCH better than my previous 5D2 (and seems the same as my former D7K).

dc




Nov 22, 2012 at 02:37 PM
PIOK
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon User: Rented D600


How you guys like colors D600 vs 5DmII ?


Nov 22, 2012 at 10:01 PM
Rooster L200
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon User: Rented D600


toss the d600, is one heap of oil and thick dust..... indeed as one poster said,DNWTFTTA.


Nov 24, 2012 at 04:00 PM
AndreasE
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon User: Rented D600


mmurph wrote:
For those who haven't read anything about the D600 sensor & dust, here is some background:
This is not an issue that is easily resolved, even for professionals like the folks at Lens Rentals. It is an issue that is unique to the D600.


It is an issue that is unique to some D600, not the D600.
Important distinction for me.

Have about 2500 shots on mine - no oil spots here.


To the OP:
It is comparatively easy:.

When you get a D600, it either has or does not have the issue. I would argue the odds are significantly better for "No issue".

If in the unlikely case it does have the issue, send it in. besides the fact that you get your new camera potentially 1 week later for trouble free use, is all that is at risk. Pretty low risk imho, but ymmv.

rgds,
Andy





Nov 24, 2012 at 06:36 PM
 

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Chris S.
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon User: Rented D600


hijazist wrote:
Using derogatory language does not make you cool or support your argument. Bragging about your sensor cleaning ability is off-topic. Do you have a D600? If not then don't talk or accuse others of being dumb without having one.

Everyone knows by now that the problem with the D600 is a design flaw with the majority of them. First of all it's not dust it's oil and dust, and it's internal. The design of the shutter curtain is causing this. People clean their sensors four or five times and after 500 clicks of each time you get those spots. And it's
...Show more

+1
Well spoken, hijazist.



Nov 25, 2012 at 05:13 AM
AndreasE
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon User: Rented D600


hijazist wrote:
Everyone knows by now that the problem with the D600 is a design flaw with the majority of them.

The majority?
Where is the evidence?
This is the kind of problem the internet (rather the blogosphere and social media) is causing, which we did not have before. I'm not arguing that there is no issue with some camera's, but the exaggeration of causes to be "huge", and "most" and "all" is seldom based on real metrics, rather on hearsay and selfincreasing feedback loops.

I am not saying people should freak out or bash the camera, because it's truly an amazing camera, but at the same time people shouldn't bash anyone who addresses this issue. If everyone is like you then the D800 left focus issue would have never been acknowledged or fixed, same applies to the D7000 back focusing issue. I remember back then when the D800 was new in the market people used to bash anyone complaining about the D800 left focus, then it became a fact and finally Nikon addressed it.

My D800 does not have the left AF issue, but my D700 and D300s have. Again, I do not dismiss that there are issues with either individual samples or faults based on a design issue. But those kind of issues raised with an individual camera like the AF issue with the D800 or the backfocus issue with the D7000 are not contained to these models, they are pretty nicely distributed accross the whole line.
If some reviewers would have done the Left-AF test with his brand new D700 back then and not the D800, the internet "image" of the D700 would have been different. It just happened that nobody did this edge case test before the D800. At least I cannot remember that any reviewer did this "test" since the introduction of the D1 back in 1999. (If you have a link, please share).

Which leads to the intriguing thought, that before the D800 seemingly nobody depended on the left AF field. On a second note, the absence of thousands of people testing their respective DSLR in the last 12 years for this particular is not an evidence that the D800 is the first camera with this issue.

Coming back to the D600:
I got my D600 on the first day of availability (no oil/dust as you can see in my D600 thread here). The serial number of my cam is in the 25.000 range, evidence that Nikon pre-produced a nice quantity of cameras. Let's assume (no evidence, just an assumption), that by now there is a five digit number of cameras in the hands of users.

How many cameras are affected with explicit evidence on the internet?
tens? hundreds? thousands? ten-thousands?
I am sorry for all users affected by this issue, but I object statements like "majority" and "most" at this stage of developments.


To sum it up:
Issues are there and should be considered, but the internet exaggeration should be treated accordingly. "Mature" internet users can often better "balance" these messages appropriately, occasional internet users have less chance doing so.

rgds,
Andy



Nov 25, 2012 at 08:22 AM
Tim Ashton
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon User: Rented D600


For the benefit of the unintelligent there is a very intelligent comment by Thom Hogan www.bythom.com dated 24th of November.

Andy. Maate; dont bother with the trolls, dont let them cost you any sleep. Those who like to believe the internet megaphone. They are losers. Totally incapable of competant thought processes of their own. Their problem

Tim



Nov 25, 2012 at 11:16 AM
Mr.Lindy
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon User: Rented D600


D600 is a winner, no doubt.
The possible "Synthetic Lubricant" contamination is a turn off for me so I'll pass for now.
I assume it will be quietly addressed like D800 AF module was & in time all will be spot on



Here's exactly what Thom Hogan on Nov 23rd wrote about it:

"Meanwhile, D600 "dust and oil" is a different kind of problem, and so far all the discussions I've seen of it are a little short-sighted and naive. At this point, it seems clear from examination of new bodies that some D600 bodies are coming from the factory with significant dust showing on the left side of the finished image. In examining that "dust," I actually think it's debris, not dust. It has a different size and pattern to what I associate with common dust.

A lot of people immediately have jumped to the conclusion that the D600 is a "dusty" camera, as the number of people reporting that their D600 came with dust is high enough to be clearly visible on almost any Nikon-oriented forum.

These people are concluding it will always have this dust problem. The data so far don't warrant that conclusion. If, for example, there was excessive debris that was present (perhaps from a drill or other tool in assembly that threw off small particles that weren't caught by cleaning procedures), you'd expect that the initial camera inspection would show debris, you'd clean it, then after use you probably would see some debris reappear. That's because if there is debris inside the camera, it wouldn't all just be on the sensor on delivery. Air movement in the mirrorbox area would eventually move debris from other places to the sensor. Over time, if you kept cleaning, the problem would slowly go away as the debris is either removed from the mirrorbox or ends up on the glue strip of the sensor cleaner. If, on the other hand, the D600 was just a camera that was prone to dust adhesion, the camera would just as dirty after the 100th cleaning wears off as the first.

At the moment there's no way to know which of those two cases is correct. I suspect the former (camera assembled with loose debris inside), which means that those that are diligent in cleaning should see it go away over time. But there's not enough data yet to conclude anything, so I can't rule out the thing that everyone is claiming, that the D600 is just a camera prone to dust. This is one reason why I've remained quiet on this issue: I'm in data collection mode.

I can say that my own camera seemed "normal" out of the box and I haven't seen the sorts of terrible problems some have demonstrated on the Web. But I also haven't shot with it a lot yet, and have only dragged it on one trip through my usual dirt-prone hikes. Not enough data.

As for the "oil" part: we've been dealing with this issue pretty much since the D3 appeared. Something changed in shutters and mirrors for high end cameras around that time. I note that it corresponds with when both Canon and Nikon started upping the "tested cycle" numbers for their cameras, but I have no way of knowing if that's just a correlation, or causal.

What you're seeing is not oil, per se, but a synthetic lubricant that, if applied even slightly excessively, tends to get thrown by the mirror. When some of this gets on your AA filter over the sensor, it looks a bit like a ring-shaped water droplet in images as opposed to just a blurry black dot. Unfortunately, it requires a wet cleaning to remove, and it usually requires a more detergent-based cleaner than alcohol-based to remove it easily. But this is one of those "over time" things like the D600 dust might be: I've rarely had to do oil cleanings on my high end gear more than two or three times. The tendency to throw oil comes because of excess liquid left over during manufacturing. Thus, as you remove it, it is less likely to recur (though it can recur for awhile).

When Canon users complained about oil on the sensor, Canon's response was to offer a free inspection and cleaning to anyone who had the problem. That's probably the right response, since the issue is caused by sloppy manufacturing. Nikon will usually clean an oil-stained sensor for free (after you ship it to them at your expense), but they have made no acknowledgment that such a thing can happen, let alone an apology and specific course of action a user should take, as has their competitor.

I keep getting hammered by a few Nikon fans for writing so many negative things about Nikon. The fact of the matter is that we're seeing more and more indicators that quality control really has slipped a bit at the factories, while at the same time the ability of a customer to even engage in a discussion about said problems with NikonUSA has gone down. I happen to really like most Nikon high end cameras and lenses, but it's hard to say something truly positive about Nikon overall when it's clear there have been some real, significant problems with new gear, especially when the company refuses to talk to its customers about them."



Nov 25, 2012 at 01:02 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon User: Rented D600


SchnellerGT wrote:
I also admit that I did a side-by-side comparison D600 and the 5DIII at local camera store and the body build quality of the 5DIII does seem superior.


Why are you comparing apples to oranges? The 5DIII is the D800-class camera. It better have higher build quality than the D600. D600 vs 6D would be a more relevant comparison.



Nov 25, 2012 at 03:30 PM
hijazist
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon User: Rented D600


Trolls, unintelligent, losers. That's what you get for expressing your opinion and complaining about an issue with a $2000 camera that you worked hard to afford and supposed to receive without any issues. No one dissed the camera, in fact we are all praising it. We are just complaining how Nikon is not addressing the issue. On another note, what is your measure of intelligent/loser Tim? Can't you just be civil and argue without naming, just like Andy did? What's wrong with people?! I am talking about Nikon here not your family. In fact, I believe that Andy's civilized argument gave me insight and hope to the problem unlike yours which is the exact definition of trolling: "provoking quarrels over internet forums".

Andy, I 100% agree that the D600 is a winner, that's why I haven't sold it yet. But I am talking about how the company is addressing the issue not the camera itself. I apologize for using the term "majority" which I based on Amazon reviews, lensrentals and Dpreview, it's not scientific but it gives an idea. Thom Hogan is someone whom I regard highly and he does have a point here. But he is saying exactly what I am saying but since he's Thom Hogan and I am not he gets the praises even from the fanboys (not referring to you Andy) and I get troll/unintelligent/loser:

"When Canon users complained about oil on the sensor, Canon's response was to offer a free inspection and cleaning to anyone who had the problem. That's probably the right response, since the issue is caused by sloppy manufacturing. Nikon will usually clean an oil-stained sensor for free (after you ship it to them at your expense), but they have made no acknowledgment that such a thing can happen, let alone an apology and specific course of action a user should take, as has their competitor.

I keep getting hammered by a few Nikon fans for writing so many negative things about Nikon. The fact of the matter is that we're seeing more and more indicators that quality control really has slipped a bit at the factories, while at the same time the ability of a customer to even engage in a discussion about said problems with NikonUSA has gone down. I happen to really like most Nikon high end cameras and lenses, but it's hard to say something truly positive about Nikon overall when it's clear there have been some real, significant problems with new gear, especially when the company refuses to talk to its customers about them."

I have always been a Nikon user (never used Canon) and I love most of my Nikon equipment but I refuse to be a blinded fanboy who doesn't even dare to criticize their QC deterioration in the past couple of years.



Nov 25, 2012 at 04:40 PM
molson
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon User: Rented D600


Guari wrote:
non issue, its like expecting to buy a car and to never have to clean it..



Actually, it's more like buying an expensive, brand-new car and upon taking delivery, finding grease stains and dirt all over the upholstery. To add insult to injury, the dealer tells you "so what - you'd have to clean it eventually anyway..."



Nov 25, 2012 at 05:12 PM
DontShoot
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon User: Rented D600


You never hear complaints from people with no issues with their D600's, but they are out there, happily shooting. I am one of them.

I saw some dust when I first got mine, but a rocket blower cleared them right up. No dust issues ever since.



Nov 25, 2012 at 08:37 PM
DavidWEGS
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon User: Rented D600


DontShoot wrote:
You never hear complaints from people with no issues with their D600's, but they are out there, happily shooting. I am one of them.

I saw some dust when I first got mine, but a rocket blower cleared them right up. No dust issues ever since.


More or less, ditto to that.



Nov 30, 2012 at 06:54 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon User: Rented D600


I have dealt with dust for the past 3 years, as I was shooting with a 1Ds - and it was probably the most dust prone camera ever made. Seriously it would take me sometimes 30 minutes to clone out all the bunnies. A pack of sensor swabs would almost clean the sensor.

With that said, the 1Ds had no self sensor shake/clean for the dust. If I had a D600 and it kept having problems, I too, would be *$^*ed off. I should NOT have to just deal with it. To the people saying to just deal with it, I HIGHLY doubt you would spend $2K (or even more) for a brand new camera and just deal "with it".



Nov 30, 2012 at 07:23 PM
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