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Archive 2012 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D
  
 
PhilDrinkwater
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p.4 #1 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


jorkata wrote:
The guy is comparing the D600 to the D800.

And sooner or later someone in the Canon camp will compare the AF of the 6D vs the 5DIII.
Do we expect anything other than ... a miserable FAIL for the 6D in this comparison .


Have an actual read through and watch the video. It seems the d600's AF is an actual let down for many. But the point is you were saying that the other poster had better have good reason for posting that the d600's AF wasn't great ... and there is every reason to say that.

I honestly don't understand some of you guys. You seem hell bent on doing Canon down. It almost seems like you'll say Canon is doing terrible so you won't get disappointed or something.

I find as I go on that I'm more bothered about people having actual information, good or bad, from all manufacturers. Right now:

Nikons sensors are better at low ISO DR, although Canon is right up there with high ISO, body for body (1dx vs d4/d3s and 5d3 vs d800). Nikon is winning for MP.
Canon has taken the lead with AF. Their screens are noticeably better. They have better JPEG and video (although d600 JPEG appears to be improved in a few early tests).
Nikon seems to have cheaped out a bit on body quality and Canon seem to have cheaped out on features, especially in their lower end models.
Canon still wins on lenses overall but Nikon win on a few specific lenses.

That would be my general view right now. Given everything, I'm still with the brand which is right for me and my work.



Nov 19, 2012 at 11:02 AM
cputeq
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p.4 #2 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


ukkisavosta wrote:
I wonder... when was the last time we had a body announcement from Canon that sparked as much controversy as the 6D?


1DX - it killed APS-H.

5D3 - it didn't have MP of D800.

5D2 - it was a rewarmed 5D.

1D3 - it can't focus.



As for photos - It's nice to find a set of flickr, but wow that person really needs to learn how to hold a camera still. 1/40s at 24mm should be fast enough to get at least somewhat non-blurry images, but there is shake everywhere. Taken during an earthquake?







Nov 19, 2012 at 11:04 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #3 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


One at 1/40 looks sharp to me. Another one is blured. All others are below down to 1/3rd (one at ISO 1600 ). Impossible handheld even at 24mm with 24-105 IS imo.

The other point: Noise does not blur by shake. Concerning noise (even in camera reduced) the samples JPEGs look amazing, imo



Nov 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM
thw2
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p.4 #4 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


cputeq wrote:
1DX - it killed APS-H.

5D3 - it didn't have MP of D800.

5D2 - it was a rewarmed 5D.

1D3 - it can't focus.


5D - awful dynamic range (actually it was right in line with the other cameras that time)

300D/10D/20D etc - Canon images are too smooth (just because the competition uses awfully noisy CCDs)



Nov 19, 2012 at 12:52 PM
EOS20
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p.4 #5 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


cputeq wrote:
1DX - it killed APS-H.

5D3 - it didn't have MP of D800.

5D2 - it was a rewarmed 5D.

1D3 - it can't focus.



30D was just a 20D with a bigger LCD screen.

40D only had 10mp while the 450d had 12mp and inferior autofocus compared to the Nikon D300.

50D was noisy and soft and not much of a improvement over the 40D.

60D has a plastic body, and no rear joystick and no micro adjust.

600D was just a 550D with a articulating LCD screen.







Nov 19, 2012 at 01:00 PM
chez
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p.4 #6 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Dust issues are pretty much confirmed by lens rentals I think it was.

AF issues according to Nikon users and digital rev (directly compared to d800 and 5d3) http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1165190

Parrot maybe, but that doesn't automatically make it wrong.


Phil, I have previously read through the thread you quote and for the couple of folks that had some problems with the AF in dim situations, there were twice as many saying they had no problems at all with the AF. They are also comparing the AF against the D800...are we comparing the 6d AF against the 5d3 here?

I still state my observations regarding Internet parroting where just because I read it on the Internet makes me an expert in it.



Nov 19, 2012 at 01:02 PM
RobertLynn
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p.4 #7 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


EOS20 wrote:
30D was just a 20D with a bigger LCD screen.

40D only had 10mp while the 450d had 12mp and inferior autofocus compared to the Nikon D300.

50D was noisy and soft and not much of a improvement over the 40D.

60D has a plastic body, and no rear joystick and no micro adjust.

600D was just a 550D with a articulating LCD screen.




I remember a lot of people saying d300>40d but I didn't buy it. Aside from the screen, I thought the 40d was good.

Gochugogi wrote:
They want a full rez RAW sans processing so they can pixel peep and moan about noise and softness.


I don't want a raw file. I was simply stating from the files posted on this forum, I've seen nothing that makes me think about getting one.

thw2 wrote:
I do not know what you guys mean when you talk about web size. Do you realize you can look at the M-sized jpeg just by clicking on the 'All Sizes' tab on the top right of each selected image? I am sure they are all in-camera jpeg. No RAW to speak of.

Ralph, you are right that many photos are blurry because they are handheld. The camera shake signatures are there.

Perhaps if I clicked links on forums, I would click an all sizes tab.
Instead, I'm talking about the web sized file that someone posted...



Nov 19, 2012 at 01:06 PM
n0b0
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p.4 #8 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


Ralph Conway wrote:
Higher ISO capabilities, no banding at high ISO, silent mode, WIFI. Each of this would justify the € 300 price difference. But I do not shoot from tripods neither life view. I shoot handheld, using the viewfinder.
So higher sensitivness of the center point is important to me in combination with higher ISO capabilities. Less weight and smarter size is important. Better working (they do) outer AF points ar no need, but welcome of course. I already own a 5D II that did a great job. But even if I do not I would prefere to add € 250
...Show more

Actually, I think the 6D makes more sense when used on a tripod with LV considering the 97% viewfiender. Plus that 300 euro price difference translates to $700 here, which is quite a lot.

Looking at the specs, they seem to be trying to find a balanced specs to make it appealing to advanced amateurs and entry level users...... And failing miserably.

Canon gives the 6D a bunch of features that pros and advanced amateurs would look away from, like SD card only, 97% VF, single cross type AF and yet they don't provide features that entry level users would find attractive like built-in flash or articulated touchscreen LCD.

Then you have the single axis electronic level that feels more like an afterthought. I can almost picture them saying,

"Oh look, we still have a bit of space in here, just throw in that accelerometer in there, can't fit two but I guess one is better than nothing."

I would happily trade that single axis level for a 100% VF.

As for that -3EV AF, here's a little extract from the announcement.

With focusing down to EV-3, the equivalent of moonlight, subjects remain in-focus in even the most challenging lighting conditions – offering the freedom to shoot landscapes or portraits at night and capture the true atmosphere of the scene with minimal noise.

Now you can correct me if I'm wrong but who shoots portrait in such a dark condition without a flash? Churches aren't that dark and concerts have stage lighting. Also when I shoot land(city)scape at night, I have a tripod, use manual focus with the Live View exclusively.

But hey, you obviously already decided to like the 6D, and maybe I'll change my mind as well, but for now I remain a non-believer.



Nov 19, 2012 at 01:53 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #9 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


I did not shoot portraits in such conditions because it was not possible, n0b0.
But I shoot portraits at 1/30th at ISO 3200 very regular what is hard enough to get keepers. Because I do events and I prefere not to use any flash if possible because using flahes without destroying the atmosphere or causing tremendous work in preparation is just not possible without spoiling the image (no musician on a life gig or person on an event moves where I preinstalled multiple flashes to get acceptable (again for me) results). Visit my website, if you want no portrait was done using a flash and you can traust me, I know why I did not.
Only professional concerts offer excellent stage lighting. Madonna is not one of my customers. And I do not know when you have shot in a church last time. You might use a tripod for landscape nightshots. I would do the same if necessary. I would not, if not. So if you shoot people outside a studio, forget flashes and tripods. Even a monopod is not flexible enough (imo).

I never had issues with my actual 98% VF. I am pretty sure 97% will not cause me any problems.

If you doen´t mind to use flashes and tripods, I am with you. You might not need anything else than a 40D, a flash and a tripod. But you could let me the freedom to ask and be happy about getting some more (and not wishing all)

Yes, I already like the 6D. It felt very comfortable in my hands. More than any other body before did. And the specs look great for me. And if sensor keeps what I expect (for now it seems to look like that) it will be my choice. What I am really missing is the joystick and 200k shutter actuations.

Ralph



Nov 19, 2012 at 02:35 PM
thw2
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p.4 #10 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


n0b0 wrote:
Canon gives the 6D a bunch of features that pros and advanced amateurs would look away from, like SD card only, 97% VF, single cross type AF and yet they don't provide features that entry level users would find attractive like built-in flash or articulated touchscreen LCD. ..

Then you have the single axis electronic level that feels more like an afterthought...

As for that -3EV AF, here's a little extract from the announcement.


D600 offers SD only, cross hair AF sensors that are bunched around the center and not very sensitive (down to -1 eV sensitivity only), no articulated LCD screen and single axis electronic level.

Yes, D600 has 100% viewfinder and built-in flash. But many folks have been using the 5D2 with its 98% viewfinder and lack of built-in flash for the longest time...

Honestly, if one really wants to put down a camera, there must be better and stronger reasons than the above.



Nov 19, 2012 at 03:01 PM
 

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Wahoowa
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p.4 #11 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


How has this thread turned out to be a debate between 6D and D600?

I posted this because 1) it doesn't look like there's gonna be any delay and 2) I'm impressed with the noise level at 25,600.

On the paper, it's obvious that 6D has much lower specs than D600, but both cameras have their own advantages. Everyone will find the right reasons to buy the camera they want. I personally own a 5D3, but am still interested in the 6D because of the wifi feature, light weight, small size and interchangeable screen. (I'm not replacing my 5D3, but 6D will be an addition to my gear.)



Nov 19, 2012 at 04:01 PM
Gochugogi
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p.4 #12 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


Ralph writes, "I never had issues with my actual 98% VF. I am pretty sure 97% will not cause me any problems."

Same here. In fact, I compose a bit "loose" since you always need room for standard print cropping. Even when printing full frame 12x18 or 13x19 3% or 4% gets covered by the mat.



Nov 19, 2012 at 04:21 PM
n0b0
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p.4 #13 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


thw2 wrote:
D600 offers SD only, cross hair AF sensors that are bunched around the center and not very sensitive (down to -1 eV sensitivity only), no articulated LCD screen and single axis electronic level.

Yes, D600 has 100% viewfinder and built-in flash. But many folks have been using the 5D2 with its 98% viewfinder and lack of built-in flash for the longest time...

Honestly, if one really wants to put down a camera, there must be better and stronger reasons than the above.


Perhaps you should look at the standard 4 years ago at the time the camera was released. D700 only had 95% VF, so the 5D was still superior.

I'm not here to put down the 6D. I'm just giving my reason why I think it's not a good value. I didn't even make any comparison with, or even mentioned, the D600 in this thread. You did that all on your own.

If you think the 6D is good value then by all means, buy it. I personally don't and since this is an open forum, I think I should be allowed to voice my opinion just like those who complained about the 5D3 dynamic range compared to the D800. Whether you think my reasons are good and strong enough or not, I personally don't give a....



Nov 19, 2012 at 04:24 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #14 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


This is absolutely okay, n0b0. And I took the same right for me telling anybody who wants to read (or even not), that 6D is a bargain imo, when sensor turns out to be better (or even "only" on par) with 5D III.


Nov 19, 2012 at 04:59 PM
artsupreme
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p.4 #15 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


6D = total failure


Nov 19, 2012 at 05:14 PM
jorkata
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p.4 #16 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


Ralph Conway wrote:
Yes, I already like the 6D.


Ralph, you don't like the 6D ... you love it (or you are 'in lust' with it ).
Understandably, your opinions of the 6D tend to be subjective.



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:15 PM
Wahoowa
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p.4 #17 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


Although 6D doesn't have top-notch specs by any means, I like it too. Just a few more things and it'd be near perfect for the price for me: built-in flash, 100% viewfinder coverage and all cross-type focus points.

Anyway, I may just wait and see if I can get my hands on one around $1,700 or so in May or June next year.



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:27 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #18 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


jorkata wrote:
Ralph, you don't like the 6D ... you love it (or you are 'in lust' with it ).
Understandably, your opinions of the 6D tend to be subjective.


Lets see if it becomes a deep love or if there will be a disillusion. For me it depends on sensor performance.

As far I understood the word "opinion" it is always subjective.



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:31 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #19 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


Wahoowa wrote:
Anyway, I may just wait and see if I can get my hands on one around $1,700 or so in May or June next year.


If it goes down as fast as D600 (over 500$ here in germany within the first two month - about 20%), It might be available around 1200$ next June


Edited on Nov 19, 2012 at 05:51 PM · View previous versions



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:35 PM
jorkata
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p.4 #20 · Looks like someone in Japan already starts using 6D


PhilDrinkwater wrote:
I honestly don't understand some of you guys. You seem hell bent on doing Canon down.


It's very simple, really.

Canon's 'affordable' FF camera has become cheaper since 2005, when the 5Dc was announced.
And yet, in 2012, the 6D gets the same inept, single-point AF system of its grandparent - albeit sugarcoated with -3EV sensitivity now.

When we pay $2000+, is it all that unreasonable to ask for something more than a 7-year old, inept, single-point AF system .



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:37 PM
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