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Archive 2012 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode
  
 
GroovyGeek
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p.1 #1 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


Can someone enlighten me on the behavior of exposure compensation in manual mode...

First weirdness:
1) Easy exposure compensation set to on (custom b4)
2) In aperture priority rotating the front dial behaves as expected: left decreases shutter speed, right increases
3) Switch to manual mode
4) Rotating the front dial to the left now INCREASES the shutter speed, right DECREASES it.
How in the world did Nikon come up with that brilliant idea? Is there a logical reason for this choice?

Second weirdness:
1) In aperture priority set exposure compensation to zero
2) Meter some object, note aperture and shutter speed
3) Switch to manual mode, set same aperture and shutter speed same as above, note meter indicates "correct" exposure
4) Switch back to aperture mode, set exposure bias to -1EV, note new shutter speed 2x higher than step 2
5) Return to manual mode, note that now the meter will read "correct" exposure at 2x higher shutter speed than step 2, in other words any exposure bias you set in aperture priority messes up the exposure meter indication in manual mode.
I am once again speechless... :-)



Nov 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM
Ian Boys
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p.1 #2 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


auto iso off?


Nov 17, 2012 at 10:54 AM
Neddie Seagoon
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p.1 #3 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


Can't explain 1st but second weirdness is as designed.

In Manual mode exposure compensation only affects the meter, it does NOT change any settings as it does in any of the auto modes. Nikons have done this for forever. Nikon makes this pretty clear in the manual. And if you set an exposure compensation, it remains in effect for any exposure mode. You can't set, for example, an aperture compensation that is then different for shutter or manual.



Nov 17, 2012 at 07:43 PM
ausemmao
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p.1 #4 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


GroovyGeek wrote:
Can someone enlighten me on the behavior of exposure compensation in manual mode...

First weirdness:
1) Easy exposure compensation set to on (custom b4)
2) In aperture priority rotating the front dial behaves as expected: left decreases shutter speed, right increases
3) Switch to manual mode
4) Rotating the front dial to the left now INCREASES the shutter speed, right DECREASES it.
How in the world did Nikon come up with that brilliant idea? Is there a logical reason for this choice?

Second weirdness:
1) In aperture priority set exposure compensation to zero
2) Meter some object, note aperture and shutter speed
3) Switch to manual mode, set same
...Show more

So you got one in the end?

The default settings are that front dial controls aperture rather than shutter speed in manual mode, easy exposure comp does not affect this.If you want to set it to default, you can change this using the Change Main/Sub Dial option. If you're happy with the way round you have currently, in f9 you have the option to reverse the direction of the dials.

If the indicators are pissing you off, you have the option to change those too in f12.

As for the second, by default exposure comp (both easy and normal) is not tied to shooting mode. If you want it to be, the closest you can get is to set easy exposure comp to on (Auto reset). Then the setting will disappear each time the meter is switched off.



Nov 17, 2012 at 08:09 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #5 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


Sorry....but...I have to ask..Why exposure compensation in manual mode?
Check the Zone System and take control of your photography.



Nov 17, 2012 at 10:41 PM
wellsjt
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p.1 #6 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


EC does the same thing in manual as it does in the auto modes - it adds a bias (positive or negative) to the meter values. By doing so, in the auto modes the calculation for shutter or aperture will be affected. If you have auto ISO turned on, it will affect the ISO calculation even if you are in manual mode. It will also affect flash power regardless of exposure mode.

This is obvious but I point it out because sometimes people come away with the thought that EC has no impact in manual mode. There are times when using auto ISO coupled with manual mode makes a lot of sense, and for those times the EC gives you an adjustment in brightness just like it does in the auto modes.



Nov 18, 2012 at 01:17 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #7 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


"EC does the same thing in manual as it does in the auto modes - it adds a bias (positive or negative) to the meter values."

I know this. I'm just wondering why bother? If you are shooting manual...why not just dial it in yourself? If I want to expose a little under or a little over I just do it.



Nov 18, 2012 at 03:10 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #8 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
"EC does the same thing in manual as it does in the auto modes - it adds a bias (positive or negative) to the meter values."

I know this. I'm just wondering why bother? If you are shooting manual...why not just dial it in yourself? If I want to expose a little under or a little over I just do it.


Because for M+Auto ISO, EC allows you specify a bias to the Auto ISO that cannot be specified otherwise, at least not before the D800/D4 added a focal-length specific feature w/bias although that is limited to +/- 2EV.



Nov 18, 2012 at 03:20 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #9 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


Yeah...your right...its so hard to set the ISO manually....I guess I forgot......


Nov 19, 2012 at 02:35 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #10 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
Yeah...your right...its so hard to set the ISO manually....I guess I forgot......


There are situations where lighting conditions can change faster than one can change a camera's settings, at least if the photographer doesn't want to miss the shot by fiddling with a dial. One example is a sporting event where either some of the field is in the shade and some in the sun, or unevenly lit (night).



Nov 19, 2012 at 03:05 PM
 

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wellsjt
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p.1 #11 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
Yeah...your right...its so hard to set the ISO manually....I guess I forgot......


You're the one who asked the question ("Why exposure compensation in manual mode?") and we answered you - no need for the sarcasm. There are many situations (although obviously not for your kind of shooting) where there is inconsistent and quickly changing lighting that makes adjusting the ISO difficult to do per shot very effectively while still actually getting the shot at the right time. The auto ISO feature can be handy in these cases if you still want manual control over aperture and shutter, but want the ISO to be able to pop around as needed for a proper exposure. If you don't need the tool, fine, but there is no need to disparage it for others who might find it useful on occasion, though.



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:25 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #12 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


"There are many situations"
Then teach me...please list the "many"



Nov 19, 2012 at 05:32 PM
honorerdieu
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p.1 #13 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
"There are many situations"
Then teach me...please list the "many"


If you aren't being open minded about the topic, then why are you continuing to act like a troll?



Nov 19, 2012 at 06:04 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #14 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


I AM being open minded....just trying to learn something here. Please list the "many"...and then tell me why, with the rapidly changing lighting conditions, warrant using a + or - EV? If the lighting condition are changing rapidly what's the advantage of taking all your shots -1 EV or + 1 EV. Let's say you are shooting with a - 1 EV....and the light rapidly changes to a darker situation...wouldn't that underexpose? Or...you're shooting with a + 1 EV and suddenly the conditions get brighter wouldn't you then overexpose? If one is using auto ISO to compensate the the changing conditions, why would you need exposure compensation?

Please help me understand.




Nov 19, 2012 at 06:18 PM
honorerdieu
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p.1 #15 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
I AM being open minded....just trying to learn something here. Please list the "many"...and then tell me why, with the rapidly changing lighting conditions, warrant using a + or - EV? If the lighting condition are changing rapidly what's the advantage of taking all your shots -1 EV or + 1 EV. Let's say you are shooting with a - 1 EV....and the light rapidly changes to a darker situation...wouldn't that underexpose? Or...you're shooting with a + 1 EV and suddenly the conditions get brighter wouldn't you then overexpose? If one is using auto ISO to compensate the the changing
...Show more


One scenario I use auto ISO with exposure compensation is when I'm second shooting a wedding in changing light situations.

For outdoors, I'll enable auto ISO in Aperture Priority mode with the minimum shutter speed set at 1/250 sec. Most of the time, the ISO changes between 200 and 1000 when I am spot metering for skin tones. My exposure compensation settings depends on the shade of the skin tone (dark to light). Dark skin ranges anywhere from -1 to -2. Lighter complexion anywhere from 0 to +1 2/3 or so, etc.

For indoors, it's different since I work with primes at different focal lengths. I like to avoid shooting at higher ISO whenever possible and since I'm swapping between the the 24, 35, and 85 lenses my D3s don't have the feature where the minimum shutter speed changes when I switch lenses. Because the situation is always changing whenever a bride or groom goes near a light source or away from it, I can consistently spot meter w/exposure compensation for skin tone to get the best exposure possible without missing too many shots. I adjust shutter speed based on two variables: the lens I am using (minimum shutter speed based on focal length) and if the subject is moving or not (I'll shoot anywhere from 1/60 and 1/160 sec). Minimizing noise and grain from shooting at higher ISO in doors is where auto ISO comes in handy for me.





Nov 19, 2012 at 07:17 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #16 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


Finally...a real world answer....the skin tones. That's exactly what I was looking for. I do this also.

BTW...I wasn't being a troll....I was being Socratic........



Nov 19, 2012 at 07:36 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #17 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


OK..that's one. Where are the rest of the "many"? Your turn wellsjt.......


Nov 19, 2012 at 07:37 PM
honorerdieu
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p.1 #18 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
Finally...a real world answer....the skin tones. That's exactly what I was looking for. I do this also.

BTW...I wasn't being a troll....I was being Socratic........


I apologize for calling you a troll. That was uncalled for.

There are many other situations where I don't use the auto ISO in manual mode. Portrait sessions using off camera flash is one of them. I like having control over most situations for predictable outcome. Auto ISO in the situation I posted about earlier is one of the tools that help me have that control.



Nov 19, 2012 at 07:43 PM
wellsjt
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p.1 #19 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


rhyder wrote:
"There are many situations"
Then teach me...please list the "many"


No thanks, but let me clarify something because this conversation has ebbed and flowed a little. You made a comment that suggested there is no need to set ISO other than manually. Recall your "Yeah...your right...its so hard to set the ISO manually....I guess I forgot...... " statement. I mentioned "many situations" where it can be handy to use auto ISO. I did not ever say there were many situations to use EC while doing so.

I have used auto ISO with M a fair bit when shooting activities on sports fields at night under the lights where I want certain shutter speeds and occasionally tweak the aperture and let auto ISO figure the optimum ISO which jumps around depending on where on the field I'm shooting. I have also done this in other action shooting situations. Do I use EC a lot during this? No. But I never said that I did.

rhyder wrote:
OK..that's one. Where are the rest of the "many"? Your turn wellsjt.......


Again, no thanks, I'm not interested in the "I am right, you are wrong" game. Let's say you win, OK? Happy now?



Nov 20, 2012 at 01:20 AM
Osai
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p.1 #20 · D800 and exposure compensation in manual mode


I've shooting using the Zone system since 1975. I've adapted it for digital and it works fine. I like Tommy's answer about skin tone at a wedding, but I shoot manual for that also. I spot meter off the skin and adjust according to skin color. I never use auto ISO. I don't find it hard to change it if I have to. When I think about it, the only auto I use is AWB. Well auto focus of course.


Nov 20, 2012 at 02:04 PM
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