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Archive 2012 · Canon help suggestions advise
  
 
1adam-12
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p.1 #1 · Canon help suggestions advise


Hey Folks.. looking for a little help and advise...

i currently am shooting a cannon 7d... also a Canon 300mm f/2.8 l and 70-200mm f/2.8. I shot my first high school football game last Friday and didn't ANY usable shots... i tried EVERYTHING (iso 6400... f/2.8 and as slow at 200 shutter speed).... even at -2 the pics were VERY dark... i was able to get a FEW corrected in photoshop... but nothing to speak of....

It happens our home football field is notoriously known for TERRIBLE lighting conditions...

SO... i am at a loss... i was thinking of getting a Canon 200mm f/1.8.... but then was steered towards a Canon 5d Mark III....

Any suggestions... help or advise is appreciated... what would you do ?

thanks...Dave

PS.. i was going to post a couple.. but just realized i need to purchase a membership... which i will do, but have to get off to work so i don't have time to upload right now...



Nov 12, 2012 at 12:47 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #2 · Canon help suggestions advise


Not sure I follow, you used EC -2 to try to brighten the photos? Did you really ISE EC -2 or did you mean EC +2? (Maybe read through up your post to clarify typos some can better help)

Guy



Nov 12, 2012 at 01:24 AM
1adam-12
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p.1 #3 · Canon help suggestions advise


I went negative to get more shutter speed... ie, f/2.8 at 200...160,,,320...etc.. at those speeds i was not getting clear pics...


Nov 12, 2012 at 01:28 AM
Carl Auer
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p.1 #4 · Canon help suggestions advise


Moved to correct gear talk board.


Nov 12, 2012 at 01:31 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · Canon help suggestions advise


We've certainly been seeing some terrific results of live performances at ISO 25k with the 5D3. You might check into that.


Nov 12, 2012 at 01:45 AM
1adam-12
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p.1 #6 · Canon help suggestions advise


sorry.. thought the sports section would be appropriate..

for a little more clarification... at f/2.8.. was getting shutter speeds of 60-100 with the EC set at 0..... maybe a little higher at the right spots on the field... if i went down to -2 i was getting 250-320... never any higher than 320... when i went + any... nothing but all blur on any movement...

hope this helps...

thanks again....Dave

and... i mostly use my camera for youth sports... mainly my kid and his friends..



Nov 12, 2012 at 01:48 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #7 · Canon help suggestions advise


For more control, I would suggest Tv or M mode instead of what I assume you we're in Av mode.

But back to your question . First I want to assume I understand. You are able to get proper exposure at iso 6400 f2.8 and 1/200 ? If so, this is about a full top worse than the worst jr. H.S. gym I have ever shot. F1.8 giving 1 and 1/3 stops back will still barely let you freeze action at 1/500 and nothing will ever look that detailed/sharp at iso 6400 on 7d. (I shoot 7d and mostly hang it up when I have to go to iso 6400). If your field is like most, you will find brighter spots on the field and my suggestion would be to be patient and wait for the action to enter that zone of brightness. Also, your other option is to mount a couple flashes on monopod like some do over on Sports Corner. You will then have two options, use HSSync, or non HSS and set manual exposure two to three stops under for ambient a flash freeze action with the 1/250 sS.

Guy



Nov 12, 2012 at 01:54 AM
scottam10
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p.1 #8 · Canon help suggestions advise


Those are pretty bad lighting conditions, not much you can do without light.

Setting EC to -2 at ISO6400, then brightening it in post will give you lots of noise.

5D3 would give you better iso performance but you'd lose some reach.

You can go for a 135 f/2, quite a bit cheaper than a 200 f/2 or f/1.8, you'd just have to wait for the action to get a bit closer.

The other option is to add flash. Again, you'll have to wait til the action gets close.



Nov 12, 2012 at 02:02 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #9 · Canon help suggestions advise


1adam-12 wrote:
...for a little more clarification... at f/2.8.. was getting shutter speeds of 60-100 with the EC set at 0..... maybe a little higher at the right spots on the field... if i went down to -2 i was getting 250-320... never any higher than 320... when i went + any... nothing but all blur on any movement...


Rather than using negative exposure compensation to get the right shutter speed (and you didn't mention what mode you were in), I'd use Shutter Priority (Tv) and dial in the shutter speed that would yield the amount of subject motion -- or lack thereof -- that I wanted with EC at zero. The camera would then do its best to give me an aperture that would give proper exposure. Once it was wide open it would indicate under exposure, and I'd have to decide if it would be worth taking the shot or not, or worth raising the ISO setting to get the shot at the risk of excessive noise.

If instead you set EC to -2, then even when there is enough light, it's going to adjust the parameters to give you a two-stop underexposure...probably not what you want.

The 5D series (as well as the 1Ds series), because of the larger sensels compared to cropped-sensor cameras, does usually give better results in low light. Whether it's worth the premium in price is a question only you can answer.



Nov 12, 2012 at 02:03 AM
1adam-12
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p.1 #10 · Canon help suggestions advise


I tried all three... TV AV and Manual... still couldnt get enough light into the lens....


Nov 12, 2012 at 02:14 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Jeff_Stapleton
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p.1 #11 · Canon help suggestions advise


Consequently, you can upload the pictures to a photo service (flickr, picasa, etc.) and paste them here


Nov 12, 2012 at 02:22 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #12 · Canon help suggestions advise


Sorry for my overlapping lost, I started typing e previous post likely while you we're typing the clarification but and watching the Bears game so it took me a bit longer to finish.

So you are at f2.8 iso 6400 and 1/60 or 1/100. Wow. You still haven't posted a photo, but are you positive you are at iso 6400 and not misreading iso 640? Since buying three stops of light with f2 and 5d iii at iso 25k, you would just be getting to 1/500'ish. If that is the case, the only option as far as I see practical, is the flash as mentioned above at regular sync. If you don't have two or three flashes, you can pick up used ones of Canon or even Yangou (spelling) and some in expensive brackets for far less money than a lens or body. Tere have been numerous threads on Sports Corner describing flash monopod setups, and sync vs HSS. Regular syncs will use much less battery.


How can your players even see the ball? Lol how bad your light is there.

Guy



Nov 12, 2012 at 02:41 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #13 · Canon help suggestions advise


1adam-12 wrote:
I tried all three... TV AV and Manual... still couldnt get enough light into the lens....


The light you have is the light you have; at least in Tv or Manual you won't have motion-blurred shots. (And with EC at 0 you might not have too-dark of shots.)

If you can't strobe the place, then higher ISO settings are your only other option for getting brighter exposures.



Nov 12, 2012 at 02:42 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #14 · Canon help suggestions advise


With that lighting I'd just sit back and try and enjoy the sports and leave the camera at home. Having to find a camera that is usable at ISO 25600 or more seems too extreme.

Can the players even see the other team?



Nov 12, 2012 at 02:58 AM
1adam-12
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p.1 #15 · Canon help suggestions advise


I dont know... maybe its not the camera and it is me..... this was my first attempt at night football.... so maybe i am doing something wrong... there are other photogs out there... with and without flashes and they seem to be getting good enough pics... maybe i will try to pick their brains at next fridays game...

but back to me original question... would i be better off with the 2.0 lens or the 5dmiii

thanks again for all the replies...

Dave



Nov 12, 2012 at 04:05 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #16 · Canon help suggestions advise


1adam-12 wrote:
I dont know... maybe its not the camera and it is me..... this was my first attempt at night football.... so maybe i am doing something wrong... there are other photogs out there... with and without flashes and they seem to be getting good enough pics... maybe i will try to pick their brains at next fridays game...


Always a good idea, if they'll share. In the mean time, please do try Tv mode again, with EC 0 and maybe bump the ISO a notch more if needed.

1adam-12 wrote:
...but back to me original question... would i be better off with the 2.0 lens or the 5dmiii


If it were me, I'd go for the 5D Mark III...but if it were me, I couldn't afford it.

1adam-12 wrote:
thanks again for all the replies... Dave


Dave? Not Reed or Malloy?

[1-Adam-12, 1-Adam-12: meet 1-L-90 on TAC-2.]


Edited on Nov 12, 2012 at 04:21 AM · View previous versions



Nov 12, 2012 at 04:13 AM
Fish On
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p.1 #17 · Canon help suggestions advise


Do you have a flash like the 430EX or the 580EX that you can use since you said that there are others who use flash? If so, set your ISO to 800 to start with, manual mode, ss@250, fstop @ 3.5 or 4.0, flash on ETTL mode.

You also say that your pics are not coming out clear. Are you using AI-Servo mode? center focus point?

Here's a thread on the Sports Forum that I posted samples with ISO 5000 with no flash, ISO 800 with flash, ISO 5000 with flash using HSS that you might want to look at. BTW, all these samples were shot using the Mark4 with the 300/2.8 but you should get similar results with the 7D and the 300/2.8 that you have.

No need to get the 200/1.8.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1164970



Nov 12, 2012 at 04:21 AM
1adam-12
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p.1 #18 · Canon help suggestions advise


Fish On... are you Gary J. ?

A little more info....

When i say i am a beginner at night sports.. i really mean last friday was my very first attempt at night shooting.... the majority of my skills have been at daytime baseball. i would rate myself as a photographer as marginaly intermediate... meaning i know what the functions do on a camera... but i dont know how to make the camera really WORK for me.... does that make sense

I started using digital about 4 years ago with a canon 50d... went to the 7d because i thought a better camera would help me more...and it has to some extent... everything i know thus far has been self taught...


back to my shots friday night..

i shot ALL shots at 6400 iso.... in AV, TV and manual modes.... i was using AI servo, with one center focus point.... using shingle shot and burst mode.... i also tried using the multi focus points too... With that said, i tend to think my out of focus shots were more my fault than the camera's... my problem was getting the right settings for the light i had...

I do have a flash (580ex II)and tried it too, but those were REALLY washed out and the color was bad... i need a LOT more education and experiance with using the flash !!!!

If anyone on the board is familiar, i was at Placer High School in Auburn....

anymore help and advice is GREATLY appriciated !!!!!!

Dave



Nov 12, 2012 at 05:19 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #19 · Canon help suggestions advise


1adam-12 wrote:
...I do have a flash (580ex II)and tried it too, but those were REALLY washed out and the color was bad... i need a LOT more education and experiance with using the flash !!!!


Okay, we've really gotta see a sample shot to help diagnose the problem(s). Until you get Upload privileges here, if you want to e-mail me a JPEG of one of your flash shots I'll post it for you so we can all have a look at it.

In the mean time, when I'm using flash I set the camera for Av (if DoF is my primary concern), Tv (if subject motion is primary), or (most of the time) Manual, and set the flash for ETTL. I find the ETTL does a pretty good job of adjusting the flash output for varying camera-to-subject distances, and is pretty predictable in those modes.


Edited on Nov 12, 2012 at 05:32 AM · View previous versions



Nov 12, 2012 at 05:29 AM
1adam-12
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p.1 #20 · Canon help suggestions advise


Brian... thanks for the offer... I am at work and dont have access to my pics at this time... If i can PM you pics i will do that tomorrow... if not please PM me your e-mail address... If i can, i would like to send you three pics... 1 that turned out pretty good... one without flash and one with flash (the flash shots were take with the 70-200 2.8)

thanks again for the offer and help...Dave



Nov 12, 2012 at 05:32 AM
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