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Archive 2012 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust
  
 
jzucker
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


the octa products all have removable rings. The softboxes do not.


Nov 14, 2012 at 03:55 AM
jzucker
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


Working with elinchrom to try to figure out why the thermal protection is not kicking in. One thing that is a design flaw IMO is that the light bulb socket is plastic. Even the threads are plastic. So when it gets hot, the threads melt. I have the feeling that the plastic acts as an insulator and melts before the thermal circuitry can detect the temperature. At that point, it probably melts the leads ...


Nov 15, 2012 at 02:29 AM
RustyBug
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


Plastic threads ...


Nov 15, 2012 at 02:50 AM
kenyee
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


jzucker wrote:
So when it gets hot, the threads melt. I have the feeling that the plastic acts as an insulator and melts before the thermal circuitry can detect the temperature. At that point, it probably melts the leads ...


Do you have photos of the melted stuff?
Or are you just theorizing?



Nov 15, 2012 at 04:56 PM
jzucker
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


kenyee wrote:
Do you have photos of the melted stuff?
Or are you just theorizing?


Theorizing? Why would I need to theorize?!? It's in my studio !!! Yes I have pix which I sent to elinchrom. I thought I mentioned before that the first one that melted I had to remove the modeling bulb with needle-nosed plyers and a screwdriver because it had fused to the threads of the bulb.



Nov 15, 2012 at 04:59 PM
cordellwillis
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


jzucker wrote:
Theorizing? Why would I need to theorize?!? .....


I do believe he's simply asking for clarity It's a valid question.



Nov 15, 2012 at 05:15 PM
jzucker
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


I didn't say it wasn't a valid question. I answered the question. I think you're reading more into my response.


Nov 15, 2012 at 05:17 PM
kenyee
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


jzucker wrote:
mentioned before that the first one that melted I had to remove the modeling bulb with needle-nosed plyers and a screwdriver because it had fused to the threads of the bulb.


Sorry...didn't see you mention that. Could you post them? I'm curious to see the melting. I'm amazed it got that hot from the modeling bulb to melt plastic...they usually use high temp plastic I'd think (like Kacey did w/ his BD)..



Nov 15, 2012 at 10:32 PM
jzucker
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


here it is. This one didn't melt to the degree that the first one did. The first one melted so badly that I had to break the bulb off and pry out the bulb's base with needle nose plyers and a flat blade screwdriver. This one came out without having to break the bulb off.








Nov 16, 2012 at 03:22 PM
kenyee
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


Wow...if it's that warm in there, I can't say I'm surprised the circuit board fried :-O
I'm surprised they put in a plastic socket too...



Nov 16, 2012 at 08:23 PM
 

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jzucker
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


kenyee wrote:
Wow...if it's that warm in there, I can't say I'm surprised the circuit board fried :-O
I'm surprised they put in a plastic socket too...


I'm now wondering if the thermal circuit takes the modeling lamp into consideration. Plastic would act as an insulator so any thermal circuit wouldn't sense the temperature the way it should. It's puzzling because in addition to allowing the sensor to access the true surface temp, a metal base would also dissipate heat and allow the fan to actually cool the modeling bulb temperature.

I'm real disappointed that it's taking them so long to give me any answer about this. It's been over a week since I first spoke to the customer service manager and the elinchrom product manager and it's like pulling teeth to get them to call back or give me any information.

That's one huge difference with paul buff. If you have a problem with the buff products, you speak to the engineers and or customer service folks directly and the service is great. I'll be glad to retract this statement if elinchrom steps up to the plate and does the right thing but so far, they have communicated very little.



Nov 16, 2012 at 08:32 PM
kenyee
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


jzucker wrote:
I'm now wondering if the thermal circuit takes the modeling lamp into consideration. Plastic would act as an insulator so any thermal circuit wouldn't sense the temperature the way it should.


Doubt it.
As someone who has designed thermal circuits on my day job, you don't stick them on modeling lamp bases. It's just a sensor on board usually...usually part of one of your other chips nowadays...




Nov 17, 2012 at 05:16 AM
jzucker
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


kenyee wrote:
Doubt it.
As someone who has designed thermal circuits on my day job, you don't stick them on modeling lamp bases. It's just a sensor on board usually...usually part of one of your other chips nowadays...



As I said, the sensor on the board can't sense the heat through the plastic insulator so the insulator (lamp base) melts before the sensor can do it's job.



Nov 17, 2012 at 12:21 PM
kenyee
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


jzucker wrote:
As I said, the sensor on the board can't sense the heat through the plastic insulator so the insulator (lamp base) melts before the sensor can do it's job.


Air flow would push air from the back through the front usually. I suspect it's not pushing the hot air away from the socket and the flow is creating an eddy so the hot air sits there. Dum idea to put a plastic socket there no matter.
Doesn't explain the circuit board frying though...seems their temp sensor warning limit is set too low or they didn't put the sensor in the right place and it's measuring the cool air being sucked in, IMHO..

All guesswork though w/o talking to the engineers who are working on it.

And your Manfrotto service experience matches what I've had w/ them. Totally unprofessional to ignore an email nowadays and even years ago when I had my Bogen tripod issue...



Nov 17, 2012 at 05:54 PM
jzucker
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


at this point, my best bet is to get the one unit repaired, and then sell the whole kit and kaboodle. At least I can call buff and get an engineer on the phone or get a part in 5 days. Here I can't even get a phone call in 5 days and a repair is 5 weeks.


Nov 17, 2012 at 10:23 PM
photosymbol
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


And you've finally come full circle. Back to Buff. Makes one wonder if you weren't planning that from the beginning.


Nov 20, 2012 at 06:39 AM
ukphotographer
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


photosymbol wrote:
And you've finally come full circle. Back to Buff. Makes one wonder if you weren't planning that from the beginning.


Worse than that.. its a love/hate relationship..

jzucker wrote:
the AB stuff is very fragile. I've had too many experiences with broken flash tube connectors and such. I'm done with their stuff.



Nov 20, 2012 at 11:30 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


Yeah, screw Elinchrom. Up to a certain point higher prices mean better quality and service but once you start getting into the Elinchrom price range you have to wonder, "If they're unethical enough to price gouge this bad, can I trust them to build it right and/or stand by their warranty?"

Einsteins FTW.



Nov 25, 2012 at 10:25 PM
BrianO
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


Lee Saxon wrote:
"If they're unethical enough to price gouge this bad, can I trust them to build it right and/or stand by their warranty?" Einsteins FTW.


Paul, is that you?



Nov 25, 2012 at 11:38 PM
HappyCamp
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · ARGHHHH...A 2nd Elinchrom BXRI-500 bit the dust


BrianO wrote:
Paul, is that you?


<sarcasm>
Yes and I and everyone else on here who likes Paul C Buff products is of course Paul Buff posting.
</sarcasm>



Nov 25, 2012 at 11:49 PM
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