establishing hyperfocal distance..

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rolei
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p.1 #1 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Hi everyone

I'm confused about establishing hyperfocal distance.

i have been regarding all those articles about "Hyper-focal focusing"and, i just don't get this...will be very thankful if you could explain me simply.

Lets say i use i would like to make a landscape photo with an Aperture of f/11 with a lens Focal point of 28mm according to my chart the Hyper-focal distance would be around 1.8Meters/
now if I'm shooting a landscape shot, should i use the AF lock-Focus to lock it 1.8 meters away from me (which will be ground in the landscape) and then reframe the image with the composition.

when i recompose my image should i press the button again halfway? or all way down?(i m using 5dmark3)

Can i focus in the 1/3 of the image? (by using the 3x3 grid in the viewfinder in the 5dmark3)

Thank you for the help

Nov 10, 2012 at 12:00 AM

bbasiaga
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p.1 #2 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

I typically manually focus when trying to do the hyperfocal trick. If you won't want to do that, you could auto focus at the proper distance, click the lens to MF, hen recompose and shoot as normal.
-Brian

Nov 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM

splathrop
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p.1 #3 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Put camera on tripod. Use manual focus and live view. Compose the image the way you want it in the viewfinder. Activate live view and magnify 10x. Push and hold the focus preview button, that manually closes the aperture. Move the inspection point up and down the image and see if everything is sharp. Then check the nearer lower corner. If not all sharp, use a smaller aperture, or recompose. If it is all sharp, you may want to try a larger aperture if you can improve IQ by using one, or if you want to stop subject motion with a higher shutter speed. But that may make something soft, so check again.

Nov 10, 2012 at 01:12 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #4 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Let me suggest some real world ways to deal with this. The fact of the matter is that very, very few people actually calculate this stuff. More likely we work by hunch, by leaving some extra leeway, or by checking the image directly. In addition, essentially everything related to DOF includes a highly subjective component: How large will you print? How sharp is sharp enough for your subject? While the calculations have a veneer of accuracy - they are based on "data!" - it just isn't that simple.

Some real approaches used by many photographers:

- Use a slightly smaller aperture than you think you might need. If yo shoot full frame, there is little or no reason to avoid f/16, for example.

- In general, your idea of focusing "1/3 of the way into the scene" can be close enough in many cases. Basically, focus between your near and far subjects, but a bit closer to the near subjects.

- If you are this concerned about image resolution, I'll bet you are shooting from the tripod, right? If so, use live view to focus manually. With "exposure simulation" activated, use 10x magnification, press the DOF preview button, and scan around the scene, carefully inspecting your near and far subjects directly.

- Use focus bracketing if you need exceptionally deep "depth of field." This involves making a series of exposures, using a tripod, in which the focus point is shifted in each exposure. The exposures are the combined in post by one of several means I won't describe right here.

Dan

Nov 10, 2012 at 01:55 AM

Hawkan
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p.1 #5 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Using lenses with markings for hyperfocal focusing makes things a whole lot easier!

Nov 10, 2012 at 07:48 AM

LCPete
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p.1 #6 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Excellent thread
What is the minimum aperture on a crop before I will notice diffraction (7D)
I am guessing F 8 is the optimum
I seem to be able to go to F13 ok but sometimes want to close it down more to lower the shutter speed for waterfalls

Nov 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #7 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Also remember that what's acceptable sharpness for one person is not sharp for another. It's not like it will be tack sharp from minimum to maximum distance (inside DOF) when reading a DOF calculator

Nov 10, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Tenn.Jer
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p.1 #8 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

...and DOF calculations are still based on the appearance of "acceptable sharpness" of something like an 8x10-inch print viewed from 3 feet away (I probably have those figures wrong, but my point is, the calculations are not based on 100% magnification on a computer monitor...)
Jerry

Nov 10, 2012 at 03:38 PM

willis
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p.1 #9 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

I think 'acceptable sharpness' is conventionally what appears sharp in an 8"x10" print at 25cm for someone with good vision. This is very different to close inspection of and A3+ print. Don't expect 7D images to look sharp at infinity when viewed at 100% on screen using the usual hyperfocal calculations.

Nov 10, 2012 at 06:22 PM

Allynb
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p.1 #10 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

What happened to the full scale dof readings that were always on FD lens barrels. It seems that somewhere along the innovative transition between FD and EF, Canon decided to generalize the dof scale to mere approximations.

Nov 10, 2012 at 06:35 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #11 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Allynb wrote:
What happened to the full scale dof readings that were always on FD lens barrels. It seems that somewhere along the innovative transition between FD and EF, Canon decided to generalize the dof scale to mere approximations.

The DOF scale have always been approximations

Nov 10, 2012 at 06:45 PM

Monito
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p.1 #12 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Beware of the assumptions behind DoF scales and hyper-focal distances. Those assumptions are no longer valid in the digital age.

The main assumption is that the output is an 8x10 print viewed seated at a table.

These days, people are prepared to print much larger, and simultaneously, most images are viewed much smaller on the web.

If you know for certain the final viewing distance and size of the image, you can begin to calculate hyperfocal distances and depend on DoF scales or simplistic DoF ranges. But you almost always can't.

If you want infinity in focus, focus there.

willis wrote: I think 'acceptable sharpness' is conventionally what appears sharp in an 8"x10" print at 25cm for someone with good vision. This is very different to close inspection of and A3+ print. Don't expect 7D images to look sharp at infinity when viewed at 100% on screen using the usual hyperfocal calculations.

Right on.

Nov 10, 2012 at 06:59 PM

rolei
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p.1 #13 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Hi Everyone,

I have been doing some tests to understand the hyperfocal distance, but its not looking sharp;so i dont think i am getting it..
here you can see 2 images(first is taken with manual focus and the second with live view ,manul focus dof button)they are quite identical and the left part is quite out of focus compare to the right, why do you think is that, can you tell me what is my mistakes,please?
i was focusing around the first tree, as the hyperfocal distance was 2,5 meters.(f16)

image 1

image 2

Thank you

Nov 10, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Shotsy
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p.1 #14 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

I can't help you with your question but I was interested in the thread and can't seem to get your image links to work.

Nov 11, 2012 at 03:52 AM

RobDickinson
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p.1 #15 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Hyperfocal is a great way to get everything in the plane of focus but everything may not be critically sharp.

Sometimes its better to focus on the near object of interest and stop down till you have the background acceptable. You may run into diffraction but this is often less of a problem than an overall fuzziness from hyperfocal.

Nov 11, 2012 at 04:00 AM

BrianO
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p.1 #16 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Here are corrected links:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Nov 11, 2012 at 04:03 AM

BrianO
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p.1 #17 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

rolei wrote: ...the left part is quite out of focus compare to the right, why do you think is that...

It's worse in the first image, but I can see it in the second as well. To me it looks more like motion blur than out-of-focus; were you hand-holding, or shooting from a tripod? It's unusual to have one side of a frame moving more than the other, but it can happen if the camera is tilted slightly during the shutter travel when using slow shutter speeds as you did here: 0.6 second.

When shooting landscapes like this I always use a sturdy tripod, and I use the self timer or a cable/remote release so the camera isn't shaken by me pressing the shutter release.

Nov 11, 2012 at 04:10 AM

curious80
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p.1 #18 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

Keep in mind that most DOF calculators and hyperfocal distance calculators assume a standard output size / viewing size. Typically the assumed output size is something like an 8x10 print. So at a relatively viewing size like that everything in calculated range will seem fairly sharp. However when you view it on say 100% pixel level, things will look unsharp. One solution to find a calculator which allows you to specify your intended viewing size and uses that to calculate the hyperfocal distance. Another rough technique is to find hyperfocal distance for a wider aperture abut then actually use a slightly smaller aperture. For example focus at the hyperfocal distance which your calculator gives for f11 and then use f16 instead of f11.

Edited on Nov 11, 2012 at 04:43 AM · View previous versions

Nov 11, 2012 at 04:21 AM

BrianO
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p.1 #19 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

rolei wrote: ...the left part is quite out of focus compare to the right, why do you think is that...

BrianO wrote: ...It's unusual to have one side of a frame moving more than the other, but it can happen if the camera is tilted slightly during the shutter travel when using slow shutter speeds as you did here: 0.6 second.

It could also be an issue with the lens. The EXIF for your images says you're using the Canon EF28-105mm f/4-5.6, and that lens is known for often having a loose objective lens.

Nov 11, 2012 at 04:27 AM

wilt
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p.1 #20 · establishing hyperfocal distance..

1. Hyperfocal distance calculation normally assumes 8x10" print and a viewing distance equal to 25cm by someone with less than 20/20 vision (this poor vision is the "manufacturers' standard" which is also assumed on the DOF scales found on fixed focal length lenses)
2. focusing 1/3 into the field of interest is a poor rule of thumb as DOF extends from 50:50 at macro distance to 0.1:99.9 and everywhere in between...1/3:2/3 only applies at a single distance for any FL and aperture size, so it is a poor rule of thumb!

And yes, once you know the hyperfocal distance, you should focus to that specific distance and NOT refocus if you want to use the hyperfocal distance!

But as pointed out, the human eye's ability to detect a 'blur circle' rather than a 'sharp point' depends upon the viewer, the viewing distance, the size of the print being viewed, and only represents a typical approximation for the average person (with poor vision worse than 20/20) to detect 'out of focus'.

Nov 11, 2012 at 06:43 AM

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