I am amazed such a thing can be legal. Is this a new law (I was going to write "low") or an old one ? I regularly spend time in the US and never heard about this being applied for anything actually (and I am even shocked to realize other brands like Nikon were doing it, and I did not know). I am really curious, what other countries do that ?
I just called the Fry Electronics, in Webster Texas, and the advertized price in today's ad for the 5DIII, is $3299, with the in-store discount, the actual price is $2899 plus tax. The ad is good through next Thursday, November 8.
I'm amazed too, Xavier, but I think you should be worrying about things closer to home. Did you not see what happened 11 days ago? 5DIII prices down to €2,700 in a number of stores (including Darty and Boulanger). Then on Tuesday, all the prices were back up to €2,999. I'll be interested to see what happens if I go in to Darty tomorrow and ask about the price. I find it hard to believe the EU would allow this kind of thing.
(it's amazing how many French people can speak otherwise beautiful, faultless English but still can't say "law", my wife included)
12monkeys wrote:
I'm amazed too, Xavier, but I think you should be worrying about things closer to home. Did you not see what happened 11 days ago? 5DIII prices down to €2,700 in a number of stores (including Darty and Boulanger). Then on Tuesday, all the prices were back up to €2,999. I'll be interested to see what happens if I go in to Darty tomorrow and ask about the price. I find it hard to believe the EU would allow this kind of thing.
Interesting, indeed. I did not notice this, as I never check photo equipment prices at those stores. The photo stores I monitor did not show this pattern. In the other hand, photo equipment prices fluctuate due to currency rate changes, and I observed the same for other items (for instance, Apple released a great number of items last week, and the prices of the new ones did go up quite a bit, even compared to dollar prices, it seems), but those changes do not occur in such a short time frame.
Sjjindra wrote:
I just called the Fry Electronics, in Webster Texas, and the advertized price in today's ad for the 5DIII, is $3299, with the in-store discount, the actual price is $2899 plus tax. The ad is good through next Thursday, November 8.
Thanks!
Unfortunately, this type of info is going to be critical in the future! What a mess for those of us looking to buy.
The only (small) good news - less temptation to scoop up a deal. But also very hard to compare used prices to best available new price.
If they want to f*** with the customers, simply return the favour. Go import them from Hongkong or something, instead of buying them from American retailers. Then count to 10 and see how fast they change their mind.
No offense to Henry Posner but I don't think B&H or other American retailers are resisting all that hard to this MAP thing. If Canon and all the retailers stand behind this, they can effectively control the market price. It is after all, designed to maximise their profit.
Oh sure, Henry is telling us to contact them to find out the actual selling price... here, in this forum, where the average member is a bit more savvy than the average customers. I doubt retailers would bother telling their customers the actual selling price unless asked. I don't see any notification about MAP and how to deal with it on B&H website.
753951 wrote:
For a moment I've read your sentence as "Once again I thank God is still illegal in Australia"
Mate, you wouldn't believe how much trouble we can avoid in Australia if that was true.
n0b0 wrote:
or other American retailers are resisting all that hard to this MAP thing
In defense of B&H and the other retailers, this is not something "new" that is just coming down the pipe.
The legality and mechanics of MAP enforcement are well established within the US, in photography field and many other fields. These type of MAP arrangements have been around for at least 20 years that I am aware of, probably much longer. The legality of them is well established.
The retailers basically sell "at the pleasure of" the manufacturer/importer. There are many, many ways that a manufacturer can "punish" a dealer, from no longer having them as an authorized dealer, to shipping them only 1-2 cameras per month or year, etc.
While there are some limits on how the manufacturer can behave, in practice all they have to do is give a seemingly plausible explanation of why they changed their business practices to exclude the dealer.
Some MAP programs are loosely enforced, some pretty rigidly. They usually lose their effectiveness after a while and tend to weaken.
It is even worse in the durable medical goods field, with like a CPAP/ASV, where an insurance company will "pay" a provider $5,000 for an $800 device. So a patient with a 25% co-pay will pay $1,250, when they could have purchased a better device for less. (Although the insurance company only pays a much smaller portion that the list price. But they will only allow you to buy through certain providers, rather than online.)
I guess it's time for one of us "consumers" to call or email all of the retailers to find out the real price and make a list that can be shared with other consumers. Playing these games has really turned me off from purchasing a new camera.
I don't blame B&H, or think they or other retailers are doing anything wrong. However, they now have to all basically pull what amounts to sleazy tactics of "hey you have to call to get the right price. if you don't, you're screwed"
Canon is trying to pretend that their cameras are more valuable then they are; rather than admit they priced them too high. It's really pretty pathetic.
big country wrote:
Actually it probably is the fault of B&H, Adorama, Beach Camera, Amazon, etc. that MAP pricing is being enforced.
Because they are pricing per the law of supply and demand?
They advertise a competitive price to get business; until yesterday you didn't have to play games with them to get their best price on canon products they sold. The average Joe who doesn't know better is going to add things to their cart and checkout - and screw themselves out of some cash because they didn't know they had to haggle like they were in a turkish market. MAP is contrary to market economics plain and simple
timbop wrote:
Because they are pricing per the law of supply and demand?
They advertise a competitive price to get business; until yesterday you didn't have to play games with them to get their best price on canon products they sold. The average Joe who doesn't know better is going to add things to their cart and checkout - and screw themselves out of some cash because they didn't know they had to haggle like they were in a turkish market. MAP is contrary to market economics plain and simple
That's exactly what I meant. And if I was a retailer, I wouldn't be too sad about it either since MAP seem to be designed to prevent price war between retailers and maximise profit. I would then be able to treat preferred customers with "discounts", sell at the actual selling price to those savvy shoppers, play dumb with the rest and charge them the MAP instead of the actual selling price.
The only ones losing are the customers unaware of this MAP business. As I said, I don't think you'll find any web stores that will voluntarily explain on their website what MAP is and to urge their customers to contact them for the actual price.
B&H Henry and Adorama Helen are here as damage control, and online communities like this are where you find the savvy shoppers. Of course they'll tell us to contact them. It's just smart business.
All the bellyaching is just a bit humorous for somebody like me who comes from a country where you never buy an item at asking price and always bargain to get the best price. Different strokes. A phone call or email to ask for the "real" price doesn't seem like so much of a burden. Call me crazy.
What ever happened to caveat emptor anyway? (I know that's not exactly what the term means, but bear with me). Don't we as customers bear some responsibility for finding the best price? Internet price comparisons have made us all soft and lazy If somebody is happy to pay the asking price I don't see it as being wrong that retailers are happy to accept payment at the asking price.
Moral of the story as it always has been: it never hurts to ask.
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
All the bellyaching is just a bit humorous for somebody like me who comes from a country where you never buy an item at asking price and always bargain to get the best price. Different strokes. A phone call or email to ask for the "real" price doesn't seem like so much of a burden. Call me crazy.
What ever happened to caveat emptor anyway? (I know that's not exactly what the term means, but bear with me). Don't we as customers bear some responsibility for finding the best price? Internet price comparisons have made us all soft and lazy If somebody is happy to pay the asking price I don't see it as being wrong that retailers are happy to accept payment at the asking price.
Moral of the story as it always has been: it never hurts to ask....Show more →
You can't compare shopping online to bargaining in an Indonesian market though. When you go online, you simply find the best price and buy from that shop. If people still have to contact them, it kinda beats the purpose of online shopping.
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
All the bellyaching is just a bit humorous for somebody like me who comes from a country where you never buy an item at asking price and always bargain to get the best price. Different strokes. A phone call or email to ask for the "real" price doesn't seem like so much of a burden. Call me crazy.
What ever happened to caveat emptor anyway? (I know that's not exactly what the term means, but bear with me). Don't we as customers bear some responsibility for finding the best price? Internet price comparisons have made us all soft and lazy If somebody is happy to pay the asking price I don't see it as being wrong that retailers are happy to accept payment at the asking price.
Moral of the story as it always has been: it never hurts to ask....Show more →
It's one thing if I have a cart in a market and set my initial "asking price"; it's another for the supplier to do that.
It's just more stupid games from rich jerks who have to put ridiculous machinations in place to save face. Their goods simply aren't fetching the prices they thought, period. They need to grow up and admit it they overpriced their gear
n0b0 wrote:
You can't compare shopping online to bargaining in an Indonesian market though. When you go online, you simply find the best price and buy from that shop. If people still have to contact them, it kinda beats the purpose of online shopping.
I don't know. There are other benefits to shopping online. It's still quicker than going to B&M stores and usually still cheaper. But having to call adds another step, true. Time to brush up on our haggling skills, folks. It's a brave new world.
timbop wrote:
It's one thing if I have a cart in a market and set my initial "asking price"; it's another for the supplier to do that.
It's just more stupid games from rich jerks who have to put ridiculous machinations in place to save face. Their goods simply aren't fetching the prices they thought, period. They need to grow up and admit it they overpriced their gear
Totally agree that Canon's recent stratospheric pricing trends have been counter-productive. If they think MAP will help them shore up their bottom line they're deluding themselves. Stop giving people as little as possible for as high a price as possible--that might help. Look at the competition and what they're offering at similar or lower price points and adjust accordingly instead of trying to artificially inflate prices. A novel concept, I know. They've been resting on their laurels for too long and are acting as if they still own the market. Let's hope they figure it out sooner rather than later.
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