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Archive 2012 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM
  
 
SKumar25
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p.3 #1 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


justruss wrote:
What is the impression of 3D in human vision? Essentially-- in my opinion-- it's when something NOT in physical form looks like it is in physical form. In human vision outside the "macro" scale, this tends to involve SIGNIFICANT DOF, where the near and far are both in sharp focus, but aided by movement, shadows, color, and massive DR could be confused with being physically present in three dimensions.

A 3D film can make you jump when something virtually shoots out from the flat screen. A "3D" image as shown here and on many threads does no such thing.

What we
...Show more

I don't quite see things popping up around me quite like 3-D movies. What I see are subtler cues that convey dimension and space. For me some photographs convey these cues very well. Not every photo does this, most look 2-d, only a subset. Some are so good that to me it looks almost as if I am looking at the real object, as if I can reach into the screen and grab it.

The effect for me is like closing an eye, and looking at an object in the real world, without moving.

To me the term 3-d is fine, many however can't get past it's loaded meaning. Happy with any term the forum wants to use.



Oct 31, 2012 at 12:27 PM
justruss
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p.3 #2 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Here, some of my own that I think display whatever it is we're referring to:


























Oct 31, 2012 at 12:31 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #3 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


SKumar25 wrote:
The effect for me is like closing an eye, and looking at an object in the real world, without moving.



That's right.....although monocular vision should deprive us of the optical capability to see depth, we can still process many clues from the scene in order to judge its 3D properties.
One such clue would be that more distant objects are seen smaller and faded in colour and outline.


Edited on Oct 31, 2012 at 12:37 PM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2012 at 12:35 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #4 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


justruss wrote:
Here, some of my own that I think display whatever it is we're referring to:






Oct 31, 2012 at 12:36 PM
SKumar25
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p.3 #5 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


PetKal wrote:
Thank you for your pictorial contributions, they are all good examples for the suggestion of depth, i.e., the three dimensionality.
We can look at it in the following simplified way: images can suggest an infinite number of feelings, situations or structures, although we all know that an image is just a two dimensional still artifact. Think of pictures which succeeds in suggesting motion of a subject such as a racing horse, or a bird in flight, or an athlete jumping. Clearly, there could be nothing moving in the image itself, yet the suggestion or feeling of motion is there because many
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Oct 31, 2012 at 12:37 PM
alundeb
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p.3 #6 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Here is one that doesn't rely on blur.

Apologies for not using Canon equipment. Nikon Camera and Zeiss lens









Oct 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #7 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Good one Anders....not much blur, but very suggestive 3D perspective thru horisontal line convergence at infinity.


Oct 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM
John_T
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p.3 #8 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Just to keep terms straight, I would consider "3D" a commercial term, most likely derived out of Hollywood, and therefore the imprinted associations and definitions.

The 3D or three dimensional illusion we are discussing here would be best represented by the works of Rafael.



Oct 31, 2012 at 01:09 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #9 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Sorry, John, I am unsure how the work of Rafael relates to this discussion of ours ?


Oct 31, 2012 at 01:25 PM
John_T
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p.3 #10 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Because we are talking about creating the illusion of three dimensions on a single plane. Many try, many fail. Rafael pretty much changed the face of art because he was one of the earliest to succeed in his works on a single plane.


Oct 31, 2012 at 02:00 PM
 

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Jefferson
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p.3 #11 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM








SwingShot...



Oct 31, 2012 at 03:14 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #12 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


John I was just kidding, I knew which Rafaele you meant, and I agree with you there.

Following Jerry's request, this morning I went back to the same place with 200 f/1.8 where I shot my first OP picture, and tried to do a similar framing to what was done with 50 f/1.0 yesterday.

1DX + 200 f/1.8 wide open.

Edited on Nov 04, 2012 at 02:39 PM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2012 at 03:15 PM
buggz2k
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p.3 #13 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Wow, very nice, definitely 3D to me.

PetKal wrote:
This looks 3D-ish to me, eh ?
Perhaps that is the result of combining 1DX (super "reach") with 50 f/1.0 (super fast). Who knew ?




Oct 31, 2012 at 03:36 PM
boingyman
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p.3 #14 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Petkal you should try a bokeh panorama shot with that 200 1.8 wide open!


Oct 31, 2012 at 03:44 PM
burningheart
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p.3 #15 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


PetKal wrote:
Thanx, Tom, I hope this rain will subside tomorrow so we can do some more outdoor fall photography.


Outdoor Fall Photography What you talking about Willis (I mean Peter). I look out my window and I see only 1D and 1 Colour Winter photography. It's snowing again.

Nice pictures all.



Oct 31, 2012 at 05:05 PM
John_T
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p.3 #16 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


I think part of the success of a 3D image is what we would naturally have in focus, for example, if we were threading our way through Peter's shot, the fence and the tree in this case, and what we would be treading with our feet.

Alundeb's shot, for example, does not succeed 'cause it wasn't made with Canon gerars. No, actually that shot succeeds perhaps as an architectural rendering, however access to the object appears to be blocked by the railing and floor design, so does not invite me, for example, to enter.

Jefferson's girl on the swing, well, that which should be in focus would depend upon what you happened to be focused on.



Oct 31, 2012 at 06:54 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #17 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


John_T wrote:
Jefferson's girl on the swing, well, that which should be in focus would depend upon what you happened to be focused on.




Oct 31, 2012 at 07:26 PM
onegreatcity
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p.3 #18 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Peter, I won't get sucked into the tail chasing about 3D this or that. However - when I look at your last picture shot with the 200 f/1.8 - I am prepared to do very bad things to get my hands on that lens!!



Oct 31, 2012 at 07:35 PM
edatc
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p.3 #19 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


This picture is definitely 3d all over. How do I know this. I make sure to view it on my 2d to 3d converting tv. It really pops!


Oct 31, 2012 at 07:40 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #20 · 3D at f/1.0 for SKumar and Dan GM


Referring to the original post: Nice photograph. Narrow DOF.

I'll give it 2.1-D. ;-)

But seriously, narrow DOF (e.g. thin focus) is one of the ways to simulate, to a limited extent, the way we see with our eyes - as opposed to photographic "seeing," which is a quite different thing in so many ways.

When we view a scene with our own visual system, several things can happen that are in line with the thin-DOF effect. First, our eyes - apart from the brain's visual processing system - actually have rather thin DOF. When you focus on any thing, other things that are closer/further are not equally in focus in the way that they are when we shoot with small apertures.* In addition, from our internal frame of reference, the entire scene that we literally "see" with our eyes is most certainly not equally "sharp" or present. Right now, as I type this, the work I'm typing is very clearly visible, though the surrounding words above, below, left, and right are most certainly less visible than the word in my central focus.

These things allow (force, actually) us to separate the primary focus of our gaze from all those other things in our field of view, as the other things cannot be imaged in a way that is equal to the thing that is the current center of our visual attention unless we move our eyes away from the current thing and towards something else.

But this is not "3D." The first is certainly related to the front/dimensionality of the scene we see with our eyes, but it is, at best, only a small slice of what let's us visually image a scene in a way that gives us access to the dimensions - binaural vision (which our DSLRs don't have) is a bigger part of it, as is our ability to move our point of view as we look at things and "see around" them.

These other techniques (the DOF aspect in this OP's post, and the many other similar elements that might include vignetting, lighting, color - recall that we are less sensitive to color in the periphery of our vision - and so forth) are members of a kit-bag of techniques that can be used to enhance our attention to the intended (we hope!) central focus of the image, both by strengthening its presence in our minds and my diminishing the presence of non-central subjects - brighter against dark background, dark against light background, high contrast in front of low contrast, saturated against muted, static against moving, in focus against OOF, focal length, location in the frame, other aspects of composition, use of converging/diverging lines, etc. (Aside from the available aperture range and focal length, it most certainly is not about what lens you use and double-certainly not about what brand.)

I do know what you are seeing when you use this term "3D effect," but it isn't 3D at all and it most certainly isn't a single, objective thing. Trying to chalk it up to some thing named "3D effect" is not helpful nor accurate.

Dan

* The deep-DOF/small aperture approach, however, let's the camera provide us with another rough simulation of how we see with our visual/brain system - e.g. we can "look around" a scene and even though the DOF of our eyes is narrow, our brain constructs an image of the scene that combines what we see when we focus close with what we see when we focus far to create the illusion that everything we see is in focus. So small aperture/large DOF simulates a different aspect of how our own visual perception system operates.

Yes. I'm back. I've been shooting for something like 25 days during October. :-)

Edited on Oct 31, 2012 at 08:33 PM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2012 at 08:13 PM
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