Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3              6       7       end
  

Archive 2012 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
  
 
zhangyue
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't think it is just adapt more lenses--although I think that is the primary advantage. It is also a better live view implementation and a matte focus screen that work well with metering which means I don't have to do focus confirmation at all. Handheld I use the viewfinder and my eye without focus confirmation, and on a tripod I use live view with magnification. Both allow great focussing. Personally, I would not use any system that required focus confirmation as I find it a pain and limiting in terms of composition.


For LV, if you have time to do that, either implementation will work just fine. I have not much complain about either d700 or d800. While, d700, I can't do timer and MLU together.

For Matt screen, there is after market one available, and exposure compensation is easy.
As for focus confirmation, if you don't use how you deal with slow down shooting, Matt screen won't help you unless you shoot WO all the time. Actually, that is my biggest complain about adapt R to Nikon. I lose DOF focus advantage.

Well don't get me wrong.

I am not trying to creat a thread tha C is better/worse than N, but try to understand other system I never explored and see which is I needed.



Oct 30, 2012 at 07:33 PM
deadwolfbones
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


carstenw wrote:
While this is true, 12MP is a sort of sweet spot, if you don't make large prints. Plenty of resolution for most things, fat pixels, and a very fast and accurate AF system. 16MP is the upper boundary of this, and then come the tradeoffs. I still think I enjoy my D3 more, for its effortless shooting and great results, even though my D800, when pushed to its limits, leaves the D3 in the dust.


Yup.

I've used higher-resolution cameras (we have the D800 at work) and while they can produce stunning results, it's definitely more than I personally need. The D700 ticks all the boxes for me.



Oct 30, 2012 at 07:33 PM
sebboh
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


wfrank wrote:
You can do quite good with a 5D2 if you learn the slack on each side of optimal focus. You learn a lens in many ways, this is just one of them. It's far too easy to dismiss AF confirm/5D2 if you havent owned the system and *really* need to try what it can do. But an OVF with fast matte is the way to go. At least for now.


i've actually played with the 5DII with a matte screen quite a bit, so i have experienced it, and i'll stand by my useless statement. i'm sure one can learn where in the range of confirmed focus actual focus falls, but why bother when even the stock focus screen is more accurate than the focus confirm light?

to be honest i thought the nikon focus confirm light was useless for me too (though more accurate), just not useable in actual shooting because it required me to look off to the side instead of where i was focusing/framing. the only times focus confirm lights seem useful to me are the times when i would use liveview instead this is the real manual focus advantage of canon, better LV implementation with none of that ridiculous mirror swinging.

zhangyue wrote:
As for focus confirmation, if you don't use how you deal with slow down shooting, Matt screen won't help you unless you shoot WO all the time. Actually, that is my biggest complain about adapt R to Nikon. I lose DOF focus advantage.


i never had any problem focusing stopped down till f/8 or so, even on the tunnel finders of 4/3 dslrs. perhaps that's why i always thought focus confirm was useless



Oct 30, 2012 at 07:48 PM
douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


In order to get a consistent manual focus light with my A900, I adjusted the front/back focus for each manual lens (they had to be chipped) to one extreme, so that, when the focus light came on, I knew focus was nailed. Of course, using this method, I had to always focus going from infinity towards mfd.

If I was going to use manual SLR lenses now, I'd likely just get an A99.



Oct 30, 2012 at 07:57 PM
cogitech
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


ZoneV wrote:
Some years ago there was only Canon offering an affordable 24x36mm sensor camera - the 5D. Back then I decided to buy a Canon crop DSLR. With Canon I could easily use my M42, Contax/Yashica, Nikon F-mount lenses.
Now I have 3 working EOS crop cameras and 2 EOS 5D - I avoid to make a system change.

On Canon I can use these old 135 format lenses with simple mechanical adapters:
- nearly all Nikon F-mount lenses - better without "G"
- most M42
- all T2
- Retina, Voigtlaneder, Schneider DKL
- all (?) Olympus OM
- Exakta - at least without full infinity with
...Show more

ditto



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:09 PM
akul
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?



Can you tell me which Contax lens you convert to Nikon? I am very interested.


Michael,

I converted MM version of CY 1.4/50 and 2.8/28. I had both of them from film period with Contax Aria. I enjoy both, but 1.4/50 quite a bit more. As you know already, planar is such a lovely lens. 28 has its strength, and I just need to extract more of its strength. Neither of them required any shaving off of rear lens barrel which was a great relief. I however do not know if that stays true with D600/800 as their mirror size may be different from D700.

Regarding focus confirmation, it seems every lens to body has different tendency, and I try to figure it out and remember it. (but now I can't remember, ha ha ) My other trick is just use LV, using camera strap to brace away from my body, zoom in in LV to desired area for focus, keep the camera braced 'away' from my body and release. Not great for low light condition, but works for fair amount of occasion. ( not so great for moving subject however )


Edited on Oct 30, 2012 at 08:20 PM · View previous versions



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:14 PM
wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


sebboh wrote:
i've actually played with the 5DII with a matte screen quite a bit, so i have experienced it, and i'll stand by my useless statement. i'm sure one can learn where in the range of confirmed focus actual focus falls, but why bother when even the stock focus screen is more accurate than the focus confirm light?


Well as you probably know I use OVF/fast matte and dont rely on AF confirm. But beside me is the 5D2 with a CY 50/1.4 attached craving "please test me". So I just shot on this screen a meter away at F/1.4. Here's the result:
A. Turning the focus ring slowly from infinity to beep I get 0 keepers in 6 tries. Useless yes.
B. Turning the focus ring slowly from MFD to beep I get 4 keepers out of 6. 1 perfect.
C. Using in the OVF/EG-S I got 4 perfect but all 6 are keepers.

On longer distances things would change, but you can learn that too.

I dont doubt your experience, but it does not resemble mine.

If D700 is more accurate half of it could be due to pixelcount. There's a Nikon thread on focus confirm which kind of mimicing similar Canon discussions. Far more people with the nearsighted D700 seem happy with AF confirm than D800 users. I guess you would find 5D2/3 users somewhere in between, just as the pixel count.


Edited on Oct 30, 2012 at 08:26 PM · View previous versions



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:15 PM
cogitech
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


Lens data, flashing focus lights, etc...

Distractions.




Oct 30, 2012 at 08:15 PM
sebboh
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


cogitech wrote:
Lens data, flashing focus lights, etc...

Distractions.



+1



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:29 PM
JohnJ
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


Although low in pixel count I found the Canon 40D to be very good for focusing accuracy using the focusing screen itself. Of course it has Live View too which is always best if practical (tripod, static, subject etc). The crop cameras naturally allow you to use lenses that could never be used on a FF Canon body. I've used the Leica R 24 and 35/1.4 lenses on a 40D with no issues at all.

I don't like crop cameras at all, but if you do like them then a Canon crop camera can be an excellent option.



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:39 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



JimUe
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


there's the 24.6mp nikon...


Oct 30, 2012 at 08:41 PM
Mescalamba
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


Sony A99, if you can.

Or A77 if you cant.



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:43 PM
sebboh
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


wfrank wrote:
Well as you probably know I use OVF/fast matte and dont rely on AF confirm. But beside me is the 5D2 with a CY 50/1.4 attached craving "please test me". So I just shot on this screen a meter away at F/1.4. Here's the result:
A. Turning the focus ring slowly from infinity to beep I get 0 keepers in 6 tries. Useless yes.
B. Turning the focus ring slowly from MFD to beep I get 4 keepers out of 6. 1 perfect.
C. Using in the OVF/EG-S I got 4 perfect but all 6 are keepers.

On longer distances things
...Show more

sounds like your experience is exactly the same as mine. you got 4 keepers out of 12 shots. anything less than 80% accurate in a static scene is definitely useless to me, .



Oct 30, 2012 at 08:44 PM
zhangyue
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


Wfrank, I would be interesting in seeing test it at 3-5M distance use a 3D object. Do the test as quick as you can. Don't give yourself too much time focusing when you use your eyes. And try to use focus confirmation once you know how much you should further turning the ring once bip start sound. And then tell us your results.

It really depend what you shoot, for really accurate focus, depend on distance, lighting, and contrast of focus point, human need a feedback system to lock the focus ie. slow, slower or even turning back and forth to detect critical focus. that also apply with slow down the lens and focus, because critical focus is harder to decide now.

Sebboh. Use WO focus significantly reduce people focusing decision time and the real DOF will cover the slightly focus error due to either your eye or focus confirmation.

Wfrank, The test you did exactly the case you want focus by eyes. That is when I use my Zeiss 35mm take portrait since most of the case my subject is within 1M.

I agree anything keep you away from subject frame is distracting, that is why I prefer matt to split screen. But sometimes, there is always compromise has to do to get the shot. I always use center point to do focus confirmation, and recompose no longer a problem with longer distance or slow down the lens, which are the two case I use mostly for focus confirmation in need of speed.

Once you are more familiar with focus confirmation, you don't need pay more attention than you should to the extend to distract you, at least not by much.

As I said, 25% of case I use FoCo, and 35% I use it get me quickly there then use my eyes. I will not discard any of them and will use it whenever it need to get job done quickly.


All I am talking about is when shooting time is limited. Otherwise, either LV, focus by eye, by confirmation, all will just work fine.


A side question for Canon user, will the bip become solid once in focus?



Oct 30, 2012 at 09:14 PM
wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


sebboh wrote:
sounds like your experience is exactly the same as mine. you got 4 keepers out of 12 shots. anything less than 80% accurate in a static scene is definitely useless to me, .


Why would you turn the ring from infinity if you want to use AF confirm in this case? It's like waving your camera when using long shutter times or something.

And the point with AF confirm is that it could be exploited for moving subjects (if you bother to learn and stop waving the camera).

I do not use it as a fast matte is superior for me, but there's no need to be ignorant about simple logic.





Oct 30, 2012 at 09:18 PM
sebboh
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


zhangyue wrote:
Sebboh. Use WO focus significantly reduce people focusing decision time and the real DOF will cover the slightly focus error due to either your eye or focus confirmation.


true, but that isn't an option if you want to shoot fast with lenses that don't have an aperture linkage to the body (which is the direction you seem to be going down unless you switch to ZEs on canon?). i've not had any significant problem with speed or accuracy focusing stopped down, but i was shooting mainly telephoto which might have made it easier.



Oct 30, 2012 at 09:24 PM
sebboh
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


wfrank wrote:
Why would you turn the ring from infinity if you want to use AF confirm in this case? It's like waving your camera when using long shutter times or something.

And the point with AF confirm is that it could be exploited for moving subjects (if you bother to learn and stop waving the camera).

I do not use it as a fast matte is superior for me, but there's no need to be ignorant about simple logic.



i afraid i don't follow your logic you got under 80% accuracy no matter which direction you turned the focus ring (4 keepers out of 6 in the best case scenario seems pretty terrible to me). also, i happen to have the habit of setting my lenses to infinity (so i always know which way to turn when i bring the camera to my eye) whenever i'm not actively shooting. my experience has been that moving subjects are the least useful for using focus confirm because trying to keep the focus point on their eye just distracts me from the rest of the scene and slows my reactions.



Oct 30, 2012 at 09:32 PM
wfrank
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


zhangyue wrote:
Wfrank, I would be interesting in seeing test it at 3-5M distance use a 3D object. Do the test as quick as you can. Don't give yourself too much time focusing when you use your eyes. And try to use focus confirmation once you know how much you should further turning the ring once bip start sound. And then tell us your results.

---

A side question for Canon user, will the bip become solid once in focus?


Everything is dark here it's late night. My TV is 4 meters away and if I shoot that now I get swell results both moving from infinity to beep - and from MFD to beep. 5 keepers out of 6 times two. Hard to tell how many are perfect as CA is ridiculously high in this extreme situation, white subtitles on dark background.

So. This is NOT a good test situation, the TV is an extremely high-contrast subject. A real world eyebrow would excite the AF confirm circuitry far less than the documentary on British Museum and their Dodo bird.

The previous test was in the same sense unfair, a very high contrast situation. I was merely rejecting claims that it is useless, because it is not.

---

About the beep. It's a single beep. The visual confirmation is also momentarily, but unlike the Nikon the actual points in focus lit up, I believe the Nikons dont do that.



Oct 30, 2012 at 09:47 PM
zhangyue
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


Thanks for the info.

So, I want confirm the beep is solid one with no frequency change like faster once close to focus and slower away from focus until solid one with focus?

Yes, I think you test condition is not reflect real world situation. I also feel camera seems detect contrast edge better than us, epically long distance, and low light. and the focus system calculates faster than most of us if not all

though, for a white wall, both your camera and your eyes will fail




Oct 30, 2012 at 09:59 PM
sebboh
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?


hmmm. i actually just tried wilhelm's tests on my NEX-7 + 35/1.4 @ f/1.4 with peaking turned off and magnification turned off. i just turned the focus ring steadily in one direction till i saw the moire in evf and fired the shutter. seems maybe i should put more faith in the unmagnified evf for wide open shooting. 100% keepers, 90% or more in perfect focus for all contingencies. targets were a water glass at 1 meter against a white wall and a turntable 5 meters away in front of a window. it's daytime here though, so definitely different light situation.

michael if you are only adverse to evfs because of the trouble you had shooting stopped down on the NEX-7, maybe you should see if there are any alpha lenses you are interested in (ZA 24/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 135/1.8?) and test how you do with the a99, which will actually let you focus wide open and shoot stopped down.



Oct 30, 2012 at 10:10 PM
1      
2
       3              6       7       end




FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3              6       7       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password