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Archive 2012 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?
  
 
Snead
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p.1 #1 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


My fairly new Sony 55Ē TV would not display my JPEG images and support said the must be in color space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2. I process my TIF files in Photoshop using Adobe RGB 1998 color space and they canít be displayed.

Can anyone tell me how I can change these images to color space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?



Oct 25, 2012 at 07:27 PM
mshi
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p.1 #2 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Have you tried sRGB?


Oct 25, 2012 at 09:19 PM
Snead
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p.1 #3 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


I tried every color space listed in photoshop including sRGB and none of them worked. I have an older Sony flat screen that displays the images just fine. I don't know what Sony was thinking of when they chose this color space for their image display.

They have a few canned samples in the TV so I know it's functioning properly. I guess I should have purchased Samsung. I had a 52" Samsung before this and it worked just fine but I gave it to my daughter when I got the Sony.



Oct 25, 2012 at 10:07 PM
Eyeball
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p.1 #4 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Just to be sure, could you please verify exactly how you are presenting your Jpegs on your Sony? For example, I assume you are having the Sony interpret and display the Jpegs directly, either via a USB drive connected to the Sony or possibly through a browser integrated in the TV. I assume you are NOT just using the Sony as a monitor connected to some other kind of device (PC, iPad, Apple TV, etc.).

In the mean-time, here are some comments that may help:

- 4.4.2 and 4.2.2 are not color space references, they are references to the sub-sampling employed in creating the Jpeg. There are some programs that allow you to select the sub-sampling specifically. In the case of Photoshop, it changes the sub-sampling depending on the degree of compression you specify. Here is a web page that explains how Photoshop adjusts sub-sampling:

http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/jpeg-compression.html

- As an example and assuming what the support person told you was correct (which is frankly doubtful), then a Jpeg with no sub-sampling (4.4.4) would not work. That means that in Photoshop, you would need to use medium- or low-quality settings since those are the settings that employ sub-sampling.

- You may also want to experiment with the "standard baseline", "optimized", and "progressive" Jpeg settings to see if they make a difference in compatibility with your Sony.




Oct 25, 2012 at 10:45 PM
Snead
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p.1 #5 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Thanks for the information. Sony support referred to 4.4.2 and 4.2.2 as color spaces so I'll have to change my references. As for presenting my images, I use a flash card with jpg files inserted into the USB slot. The TV sees the USB card and when it is selected with the remote control, image thumbnails and file names are displayed. After selecting a thumbnail a message is displayed saying "Image Can Not Be Viewed". I've tried 3 different flash cards with images from 3 different cameras in jpg qualities from 2 to 12 and I keep getting the same message.

The Sony manual simply says files must be JPG! I had to go to the forth layer of support before I got the "color space 4.4.2/4.2.2 answer and they could not give me any information other than TVs before and after my model have no problem... just my model! I'll try your suggestions with standard baseline etc.



Oct 26, 2012 at 12:42 PM
AlphaValues
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p.1 #6 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Snead wrote:
...other than TVs before and after my model have no problem... just my model! ...


Sounds like a firmware bug in the TV to me. I hope you can still return it :/



Oct 26, 2012 at 04:24 PM
 

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Snead
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p.1 #7 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Sony called me this afternoon and told me that some sample photos I had emailed them had done the same thing in their TV. They suggested opening the files in Microsoft Paint and then save them as jpeg on the flash card.

I tried it and it worked and the images were displayed but it's sure a pain in the butt to do that for a large bunch of photos. On the other hand the image quality on the screen was superb.

Thanks for all the suggestions.



Oct 27, 2012 at 12:11 AM
Matt Howell
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p.1 #8 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Snead, as Eyeball said, 4:2:2 refers to Chroma Subsampling, not colorspace. Sony has given you some horrible misinformation. There is no such thing as 4:4:2 subsampling.

If your Sony TV can really only playback 4:2:2 subsampled jpegs, then the solution is not very difficult.

1. Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc. DSLRs (and almost every camera made) produce 4:2:2 jpegs straight out of the camera.

2. Canon's DPP always produces 4:2:2 jpegs

3. FastStone Image viewer, lets you choose the level during save. Medium in FastStone is 4:2:2

4. Photoshop does not save 4:2:2 jpegs, It uses these different chroma subsampling levels depending on the JPEG Quality settings:

Photoshop Save As Quality 0-6 2x2 Chroma Subsampling (4:2:0)
Photoshop Save As Quality 7-12 1x1 No Chroma Subsampling (4:4:4)
Photoshop Save For Web Quality 0-50 2x2 Chroma Subsampling (4:2:0)
Photoshop Save For Web Quality 51-100 1x1 No Chroma Subsampling (4:4:4)


Levels of YCbCr subsampling:

4:4:4 - The resolution of chrominance information (Cb & Cr) is saved at the same rate as the luminance (Y) information. Also known as 1x1, or no chroma subsampling. (Photoshop Save as JPEG Quality 7-12)

4:2:2 - Half of the horizontal resolution in the chrominance is dropped (Cb & Cr), while the full resolution is retained in the vertical direction, with respect to the luminance. This is also known as 2x1 chroma subsampling, common in digital cameras. (Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc. DSLRs)

4:1:1 - One quarter of the chrominance information is preserved in the horizontal direction with respect to the luminance information. (NTSC DV video)

4:2:0 - The chrominance resolution in both the horizontal and vertical directions is cut in half with respect to the luminance information. This form is also known as 2x2 chroma subsampling. (Blu-ray, HDV and DVD video)



Oct 27, 2012 at 08:52 PM
Snead
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p.1 #9 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Matt, thanks for your very informative post, I appreciate your effort. I normally shoot RAW and process the images as TIF files with either DPP or Capture One 6 (and now 7), tweak them in Photoshop and save as jpg, quality 12. Your suggestions lead me to do more testing and I found that;

JPG files shot directly from the camera (tested 5D2 & G1X) displayed on TV.
RAW files processed in DPP and saved as JPG displayed on the TV.
RAW files processed in Capture One 7 and saved as JPG did not display on TV.
RAW files processed in Camera RAW and saved as JPG quality 10 did not display on TV.

If I understand your post correctly that is just what you said so if I want to display images on my TV I guess the simplest way would be to process them with DPP and save as JPG and forget about Photoshop tweaking.

Thanks again for your help. Itís an interesting subject that I must admit I know very little. Eyeball gave me a link that was also very informative and I must study more closely.

I found that if I process the RAW files in DPP and save as a TIF, then process the TIF in Photoshop and save as a TIF, it can be loaded back into DPP and saved as a JPG that displays on the TV.



Oct 28, 2012 at 01:10 PM
Matt Howell
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p.1 #10 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


Snead, You are welcome. I am glad to help you find a solution. I find it very difficult to understand Sony producing a TV that can only play back a portion of the JPEG standard. It's sloppy.

I forgot to mention that FastStone Image Viewer is free, and using it might save you some trouble.



Oct 28, 2012 at 09:19 PM
Snead
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p.1 #11 · Color Space 4.4.2 or 4.2.2?


I have Faststone and tried it (set at medium and 50) to copy files to my flash drive but the TV would not display them. Then I tried copying the files to my flash drive using Irfan View set at 50 and they were displayed.


Oct 29, 2012 at 12:49 PM





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