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Archive 2012 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**
  
 
CanonShooter88
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


I don't understand MA with zoom lenses. I'm working on my 70-200mm right now with a Canon EOS 1D Mark III.

I find I need +12 when at 200mm but no MA when at 70mm.

What does this mean?

(The same holds true for my 24-70mm....MA varies by focal length).

*NOTE: I've done this manually as seen in the Canon manual, and again with FoCal.

Edited on Oct 16, 2012 at 06:27 PM · View previous versions



Oct 12, 2012 at 08:28 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


Well, if you have a 1DX or 5DIII, you can have separate AF microadjustment values for the wide end and long end. If you know that you shoot most often at a particular focal length, then you might want to do AFMA there. OTOH, you might want to do it at the mid-point, based on short and long AFMA values. For earlier cameras, I do the AFMA at the long end, where the DOF is least (for constant aperture zooms).


Edited on Oct 12, 2012 at 08:36 PM · View previous versions



Oct 12, 2012 at 08:34 PM
jerbear00
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


Nice. Look at focal chart and see the variance in sharpness over different MA values. Try to either set for your most used focal length or catch the average in between.

The alternative is to send to canon. My zooms are on but I recently sent a 50L in with my body and it can back at predicted -2 as opposed to -20 before. Great results



Oct 12, 2012 at 08:35 PM
CanonShooter88
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


Thanks for your replies. I don't use a lens at a particular focal more than any other. As a sports shooter, I use the 70-200mm throughout the entire range all the time.

I can't store different values per focal length on the 1D Mark III....only one value per lens.

MA has been the most irritating thing I've ever encountered. I've used the original EOS Digital Rebel, EOS 30D, EOS 1D, EOS 1D Mark II, and EOS 1D Mark II N.

^ Never had an issue with any of those bodies. But now that I've "upgraded" to a "better" camera, MA haunts me every photo shoot and I've been dissatisfied with both of my Mark III bodies from Day 1.



Oct 12, 2012 at 08:55 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


Maybe you could have Canon Service look at the cameras. My 1DsIII and 1DIV adjustments never exceeded +4 to -5, for the max allowed 20 lens/extender combinations. I haven't bothered to do it yet for my 1DX, as it obviously isn't a big problem.


Oct 12, 2012 at 09:10 PM
jerbear00
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


What I meant was check the FoCal graph to see it there is a plateau somewhere between 0 and plus 12 that might still optimize both ends. In the end you might just feel better if you send it to cps.



Oct 13, 2012 at 05:40 AM
matt4626
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


MA at the long end, wide open DOF is your friend


Oct 13, 2012 at 02:54 PM
Suresh T
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


I look at the MA charts at the different focal lengths, and try to find the best compromise. If that's hard, I either lean on the side of the longer focal length (where the DOF is shallowest and therefore the MA more critical), or I pick one of the focal lengths if I use it much more frequently than the others.


Oct 14, 2012 at 09:10 AM
RCicala
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


There's usually a bit of variation at the two extremes of a zoom, and a bit between near and far focus.

There are electrical adjustments to the AF motor voltage and frequency, as well as some modifiers in the mathematical algorithms that can be made with the factory software but not with MA on the camera. The newer cameras give us two focal length adjustments but Canon has more options including for individual focus points.

With this big of a swing I'd send the lens in to Canon telling them the actual numerical difference you have. They can even that out to some extent, maybe entirely.

There's an old saying "Increasing resolution is increasingly expensive". I'd add that it's increasing finicky, too.



Oct 14, 2012 at 12:17 PM
Ferrophot
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


Before sending it off I'd do some more tests to determine if it's the lens or the camera, alternatively send them both in together.
I can understand your frustration. Once upon a time if we had a soft shot we'd put it down to technique, now its "Uh uh, MA is off", and we analyse each shot looking for front and back focus. After doing AFMA my lenses are sharper, and my shots reflect this, but I still want more!



Oct 14, 2012 at 01:17 PM
 

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bbasiaga
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


CanonShooter88 wrote:
MA has been the most irritating thing I've ever encountered. I've used the original EOS Digital Rebel, EOS 30D, EOS 1D, EOS 1D Mark II, and EOS 1D Mark II N.

^ Never had an issue with any of those bodies. But now that I've "upgraded" to a "better" camera, MA haunts me every photo shoot and I've been dissatisfied with both of my Mark III bodies from Day 1.


At risk of hijacking the thread....I too shot a Digital Rebel, 40D, and 5D with never a thought to AFMA, because it didn't exist. Now I have a 5DIII and am afraid to try AFMA, because I see a lot of people struggle (even with the best software) as if they are chasing an optiumum point that really isn't there....

Is it really worth it to AFMA?

-Brian



Oct 14, 2012 at 01:23 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


bbasiaga wrote:
Is it really worth it to AFMA?


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's easy enough to check out. I find the best way is to tether the camera to EOS Utility on a notebook, and show the LiveView output on the monitor. You can easily see if AFMA adjustments provide an increase in sharpness, or not. You can "drive" the AFMA adjustments in EOS Utility, and see the results in real time.



Oct 14, 2012 at 01:35 PM
CanonShooter88
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


I did my 4th and (hopefully) final MA calibration test today with both bodies and all lenses. I have found that only 1 of my lenses benefitted from MA and the large, overarching issue was turning up in-camera sharpening in the Pictures Styles menu. I now have it said to the maximum of +7. Prior, I was shooting "Faithful" (i.e. 0 sharpening), and the difference as I went from 0 to 2 to 4 to 6 to 7 was INCREDIBLE...NIGHT & DAY DIFFERENCE.

This test, of course, was on One Shot mode, so I'm crazy eager for my next assignment to test out the results with AI Servo (I'm a sports photog).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*BTW: I originally had both of my Mark IIIs set to my own User Defined Pictures Styles mode which had +5 for sharpening. Somehow, I switched one of my bodies to "Faithful" (0 sharpening), which explains why I was so dissatisfied with that one body more than the other.

Now that I've tested both bodies at +7 sharpening together, I was floored by the difference (taking one shot at 0 sharpening and another at +7 was almost life-changing)

In the past, I had always been cautious about using the max value for any setting, but that may have changed (I'll know for sure after the next shoot)!!



Oct 15, 2012 at 04:07 AM
andyz
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


Any images you can post so we can see the difference?


Oct 15, 2012 at 04:19 AM
bbasiaga
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


I usually apply +5-6 in DPP when processing. I agree it makes a huge difference. I've never really felt the lack of sharpness unless the focus was missed. I always took that to mean my lenses were accurrate enough, no AFMA needed. But then you hear everyone talk about how AFMA is necessary and start to wonder if great can get even better....

-Brian



Oct 15, 2012 at 11:32 PM
CanonShooter88
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


**SAMPLE IMAGES**

~ All taken with Canon EOS 1D Mark III & Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8. They are 100% crops.
~ 1st two crops @ 120mm f/2.8
~ 2nd two crops @ 300mm f/2.8

*Only post-processing done was the crop.







ORIGINAL IMAGE @ 120MM F/2.8 WITH SHARPENING (+7)

  Canon EOS-1D Mark III    120mm    f/2.8    1/250s    640 ISO    0.0 EV  







100% CROP @ 120MM F/2.8 (NO SHARPENING)

  Canon EOS-1D Mark III    120mm    f/2.8    1/250s    640 ISO    0.0 EV  







100% CROP @ 120MM F/2.8 (+7 SHARPENING)



Edited on Oct 16, 2012 at 06:33 PM · View previous versions



Oct 16, 2012 at 06:21 PM
CanonShooter88
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


...continued.





ORIGINAL IMAGE @ 300MM F/2.8 WITH SHARPENING (+7)







100% CROP @ 300MM F/2.8 (NO SHARPENING)







100% CROP @ 300MM F/2.8 (+7 SHARPENING)




Oct 16, 2012 at 06:23 PM
vsg28
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


I didn't know FoCal made a Leonardo DiCaprio calibration chart


Oct 16, 2012 at 06:34 PM
CanonShooter88
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


^ That's what happens when you buy the Pro version

Haha I didn't even realize I had the FoCal heading visible. I'm always judging image sharpness by athletes faces (sports photog here), so I wanted to see the change from 0 to 7 with eye and hair detail.



Oct 16, 2012 at 06:39 PM
andyz
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · MA + Picture Styles Sharpening **(SAMPLE IMAGES)**


So there is no MA, just in camera sharpening differences here?

Do you feel you'd rather sharpen in camera than in post, and that this is more precise?



Oct 16, 2012 at 08:38 PM
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