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Archive 2012 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't f...
  
 
millsart
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


Darn if I didn't think (and publicly) say that I'm quite set as far as my equipment goes. Between my various Nikon DSLR's, my iPhone and my Sony RX100, I felt I was pretty set as far as equipment goes for all my professional and personal needs (and what little personal shooting I even have these days I just started back to school to get a doctorate)

Sigma DP1/2M certainly got my attention though, if not just for a rather unique and novel product if nothing else, and for what is a pretty darn reasonable price. Was pretty happy just reading about the technology, debating it etc, but was doing pretty well holding off placing and order but then came across this image and darn if the browser didn't got straight to Sigma USA and the credit card came out

This is a shot by photographer Ryuichi Oshimoto from his blog (which is in Japanese) of excellent images..







Gosh darn if it just didn't leave my jaw on the floor!

Simply an amazing level of detail right down to every last blade of grass, and so sharp across the entire frame. The sheer depth of the image as well, especially the log in the river, not to mention the colors just blew me away.

I mean just look at subtle yet fine texture of the weathered log. Amazing, I've never really seen that fine of detail or tonality captured other than my 4x5 Toyo field camera.

I can hardly believe an image like that is coming from a little camera you can carry in a coat pocket and that sets you back $1 less than a grand.

Just had to buy one after seeing that shot, it was the last straw

The rest of his excellent blog has some other great images as well, well worth checking out too
http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/oshimoto_photoessay/



Oct 06, 2012 at 03:18 AM
millsart
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


Also interesting thing you can see from viewing his blog is just how special the interaction between the X3 sensor and the 30mm f2.8 lens is.

Take a look at some of the files from the SD1 with various other Sigma glass. Some nice images still, and good good detail and the typical Foveon look is present of course, but no where near the same biting clarity and depth.

That lens paired to that sensor just really sings



Oct 06, 2012 at 03:28 AM
mpmendenhall
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


It's amazing how much 100% crops from this camera look like carefully downsized and sharpened versions of some underlying higher resolution photo, even in the far corners. Also, while it's hard to tell much from JPEG files alone, it seems that I can stretch the shadow exposure a lot without any ugly artifacts showing up (just more detail!). I hope Sigma gets around to shipping mine some day soon.


Oct 06, 2012 at 03:59 AM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


the edges of the mountain bother me for some reasons. same problem with the rock that was posted in the other thread.


Oct 06, 2012 at 04:07 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


There's definitely some sort of outline or something on the mountain edges. CA?

It's a stunning scene, maybe I'm just too used to bayer images but the grass just doesn't look natural to me?

Like it's rendered and the algorithm forgot it's random seed. I see repeating digital patterns.







Oct 06, 2012 at 04:18 AM
mpmendenhall
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


ken.vs.ryu wrote:
the edges of the mountain bother me for some reasons. same problem with the rock that was posted in the other thread.


Yeah, I see there's a 1 pixel black border visible all around edge. My guess is it's the result of the default sharpening (Sigma is apparently cheating a bit by making their "0" default sharpness actually apply moderately strong sharpening, which skews "straight-out-of-camera neutral settings" comparisons with other cameras). I've seen other reviews recommending turning down sharpening to "-2", then re-sharpening with a less blunt-force tool than Sigma's processing; I'm hoping this would fix the 1-pixel sharpening halo artifacts (i.e. they are not some fundamental sensor issue).



Oct 06, 2012 at 04:21 AM
millsart
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


There certainly is a bit of surreal quality to the image. It certainly doesn't look like anything I've seen from any of my Bayer sensored cameras, even with quite high resolution like the D800. There is always a bit of a digital photograph look that I've just come to accept and expect.

DP2M really doesn't look like film though either, even though at times the color and detail do remind me viewing old 4x5 or 6x7 chromes on a light table.

All and all, its just a rather unique look I'm not used to seeing anywhere else. It doesn't look quite "real", but it doesn't look like an computer rendered illustration either, even though perhaps in a way our brain tries to tell us it must be because the image looks "too good" to be a photograph.

Whatever it is, I think it can lead to some really stunning prints that will really make people have to look twice.



Oct 06, 2012 at 04:33 AM
millsart
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


Here is another image that my brain just keeps on telling me can't be real. Just look at the detail of the pine needles on the trees in the background. That is just how no camera I've owned would render that type of detail.

Likewise, look at the trunk of the tree on the far left edge of the frame. There is just no apparent sharpness fall off anywhere along its length. That just isn't how I am used to viewing 100% scenes.

There is something unique about the colors as well, its certainly not HDR, nor any sort of Topaz/Lucis Art/High Pass filter look, but its a bit unnatural in the way it looks natural, if that makes any sense.

Just the same, I rather like it








Oct 06, 2012 at 04:42 AM
philip_pj
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


Good you like it, and good on Sigma for the achievement, I hope they sell a lot of them. If it takes off as it deserves to, we may see higher Mp Bayer cameras rushed to market faster.

It will appeal to those who can overlook certain image characteristics in the search for the holy grail of ultimate 'sharpness'. Strangely, 3D is not enhanced, detail is very crunchy, colour is just surreal even compared with Velvia, OOF is not inviting, DR is very poor. It all seems somewhat out of control, like a newcomer's post processing learning phase. I almost get the feeling that the sensor 'sees too well', detail pops up where you least expect it, with little gradation or tonality. Image objects seem to lit from within almost.

Colour balance is off, drab tones co-exist with acid trip yellows; DOF cues do not seem to exist, distant twigs are as sharp as tiny foreground pebbles - and only image cues (such as the creek) work to counter this strong impression. The final appearance is of a graceless, almost crass postcard-like image with spy satellite level super definition! We might see a foveon filter from Nik one day soon...but maybe they (Sigma) can rein it in somehow.

Imagine portraiture, lol. Interesting also to compare these images with the best 35mm lenses on regular DSLRs or say 6x7 chromes- those ones still retain a photographic look despite huge performance. One of the getdpi people thought it would be great for stock shooters or food shooters, where high impact and SOOC quality trumps all else.

It will also be interesting to see if the impact wears off as people get used to it. Also of note is that Sigma tried to sell it for a huge sum in early marketing, according to LL, but are now pricing it at P&S levels and are presumably aiming at that market niche.



Oct 06, 2012 at 05:45 AM
philber
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


A friend passed on 4 JPEGs which were conversion from SOOC RAW images. Detail was incredible, though not necessarily "natural" looking. Meaning I don't know whether the unnatural feeling was due to something strange, or to my not being used to viewing such images. But colours were definitely very strange and not even nice looking. Skin tones made the persons on two of the shots look like characters out of a zombie or walking-dead movie. I was told that you need careful PP to correct that, up to a point. That, plus the fact that PP software choice is at this time very limited indeed with no guarantee that it will get better, plus the ridiculously short battery life, killed my gear lust for the DP2M


Oct 06, 2012 at 07:13 AM
 

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millsart
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


Atomic Acid Trip Spy Satellite Post Cards eh ? lol

Crass and graceless maybe, but darn if I don't enjoy it



Oct 06, 2012 at 05:05 PM
glacierpete
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


I think it would be easier to judge this camera by just downloading a few raw files, the software and process some images based on your liking on your own system. (you might prefer to use -1 sharpening for landscapes, and be prepared to correct some cyan skys in auto white balance, better use sunny and correct from there.)

You never know the other persons Photoshop skills, color blindness, or properly calibrated equipment.



Oct 06, 2012 at 05:35 PM
RickPerry
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


This picture (from a DP1) prompted me to pre-order a DP2M! Click on the + sign in the top left corner.

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=664760



Oct 06, 2012 at 06:36 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


That shot with the ranger hoisting the flag, is that with a sepia filter or something? The flag looks amazing flat, colour-wise, and the orange traffic cone to the left is also ultra-drab.

I understand wanting a small, simple camera with great colour and sharpness, but the colours out of these two cameras are just bizarre, a total mishmash of over- and under-saturation with very peculiar white balances. Some shots look good, many don't, but the results are never relaxed or natural.



Oct 06, 2012 at 06:43 PM
RickPerry
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


Here is another from a DP1 - looks pretty natural to me - also looks like medium format - which I shot for many years!

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7485733232/photos/1835820/long-neck-chiang-mai-thailand




Oct 06, 2012 at 06:49 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


I think these images have an overcooked look.

It's not a bad look but I don't want the files like this out of the camera, I want to do the cooking myself!



Oct 06, 2012 at 07:00 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


The reds are pinks in that portrait are very strong, but the greens and her skin tones are very grey. It still looks to me like some art filter has been applied, not like a normal shot with a normal camera.


Oct 06, 2012 at 07:09 PM
RickPerry
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


IMHO - that is what reds and pinks look like in that part of the World. There is a terrific amount of detail in these shots - which I believe you are confusing with "Over-cooked".


Oct 06, 2012 at 07:14 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


I haven't been to that part of the world, but I have to agree that the pinks look overcooked (nothing to do with amount of detail), and the green tones being muted to gray seems common in the examples I have seen. I think the camera does struggle with accuracy of color reproduction, though I don't find it necessarily unpleasant.

Keep in mind that the simplistic picture that Sigma portrays of how the three-layer sensor works, with each wavelength of light depositing its signal in the appropriate sensor layer, doesn't show how "messy" what actually goes on is: light doesn't come to a hard stop at precisely the correct depth for its color, but is smeared out through the whole depth of the sensor with some bias towards shallower depth for shorter wavelengths and deeper for longer. As a result, there's going to be a lot of mixing between the color channels, compared to a bayer filter that can strongly discriminate between colors (but fails spectacularly when color spatial frequencies exceed the sensor sampling). Untangling the scrambled color information is going to be a difficult task, prone to error from metamerism. I imagine that in future generations of the technology, one might want to use more than three sensor layers for more accurate color separation.



Oct 06, 2012 at 07:41 PM
RickPerry
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Saw this image and just had to order the DP2M, couldn't fight it


carstenw wrote:
The reds are pinks in that portrait are very strong, but the greens and her skin tones are very grey. It still looks to me like some art filter has been applied, not like a normal shot with a normal camera.


I think you are correct - it is not a "normal" camera!



Oct 06, 2012 at 08:03 PM
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