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Archive 2012 · Bye bye dslr...
  
 
mco_970
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Bye bye dslr...


5N - $400 new
24/1.8 - $900 or so from the B&S board (I bought one a couple of months back for this price)

Definitely lower than $2k!!



Sep 27, 2012 at 04:18 PM
retrofocus
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Bye bye dslr...


I certainly couldn't justify paying more than $2500 for a DSLR seeing the current developments. Mirrorless cameras will be the future even DSLRs will coexist for a matter of quite a few years to come. My plan is to keep my current DSLRs until mirrorless cameras are available with FF sensor, good resolution and DR, for interchangeable lenses and for reasonable price tag. Very likely this will be the next camera upgrade for me.


Sep 27, 2012 at 04:45 PM
Access
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Bye bye dslr...


retrofocus wrote:
Mirrorless cameras will be the future even DSLRs will coexist for a matter of quite a few years to come. My plan is to keep my current DSLRs until mirrorless cameras are available with FF sensor, good

I don't see mirrorless ever replacing the DSLR, at least not in the west. Most of the new people I see irl who are just starting out with photography are still buying DSLRs despite there being three very capable mirrorless options out there (for most types of photography). I think we will know for sure in a year or two how big or significant mirrorless is going to be. I also don't expect a worthwhile FF mirrorless to arrive, if there is one, it will be too limited, too niche.



Sep 27, 2012 at 05:58 PM
OntheRez
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Bye bye dslr...


Russel,

Chiming in late here, I also have stubbornly held to the dream there was a "pocketable" camera that could provide decent IQ in "normal" situations. I've never figured on dumping the DSLRs simply because they do many (actually most) things better. G9, S90, LX5, all were "OK" but not compelling and the Gs just don't go into a pocket. I finally realized that that form factor still has a ways to go and am currently using/experimenting with a GX1, the 20mm f/1.7, and the EVF. The view finder makes all the difference as I just can't take pix with an LCD. This rig won't go in a pocket, but I've started wearing a small hip pack sticking phone, billfold, keys, and camera in it. (OK, call it a "man" purse if you like ) Actually works fairly well and I'm slowly starting to use it. Biggest problem is remembering to slow down, look, see, and shoot as I rush about in my oh so busy and important life

This is a SOOC from the kit of El Morro in NM. A little PP brings it right up. I'm actually impressed with the camera. No it cannot do the work of shooting an HS football game in extremely poor light. Even my 1DIV is pushed to its limits with those constraints. Still, for keeping something with you that you might remember to use, this is a good solution. I have no doubt that similar offerings from Oly, Sony, Fuji, et. al. would also serve you well.

Robert



rsorrels 2012


The rock under the ruins: El Morro




Sep 27, 2012 at 06:18 PM
retrofocus
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Bye bye dslr...


Access wrote:
I don't see mirrorless ever replacing the DSLR, at least not in the west. Most of the new people I see irl who are just starting out with photography are still buying DSLRs despite there being three very capable mirrorless options out there (for most types of photography). I think we will know for sure in a year or two how big or significant mirrorless is going to be. I also don't expect a worthwhile FF mirrorless to arrive, if there is one, it will be too limited, too niche.



I disagree: of course DSLRs will be outdated by new mirrorless cameras anywhere in the world! As I said, both will coexist for a while, but the mirrorless trend is unstoppable. Smaller cameras with the same IQ as in the DSLRs.Of course now people buy DSLRs since they are the most affordable option (and they will be for a while!). The current mirrorless cameras have drawbacks other than the price - most have still a cropped APC-S sensor, and the Sony full frame mirrorless camera has no interchangable lenses. But it is just the beginning, the technology is already there. Prices for mirrorless (full frame option included!) will soon drop due to more competition which will directly affect DSLR prices, too. Great time for consumers is going to come!



Sep 28, 2012 at 12:50 AM
Access
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Bye bye dslr...


retrofocus wrote:
I disagree: of course DSLRs will be outdated by new mirrorless cameras anywhere in the world! As I said, both will coexist for a while, but the mirrorless trend is unstoppable. Smaller cameras with the same IQ as in the DSLRs.Of course now people buy DSLRs since they are the most affordable option (and they will be for a while!). The current mirrorless cameras have drawbacks other than the price - most have still a cropped APC-S sensor, and the Sony full frame mirrorless camera has no interchangable lenses. But it is just the beginning, the technology is already there.
...Show more
Even though mirrorless setups can be had for very cheap (less than $300. to $450.) compared to the $400. or $500. that people pay for entry-level DSLRs and kit zoom -- it's just not catching on here. Mirrorless has always had the edge is size, and you'd think that now that it has the edge in price, the new entries into the field would be choosing it. But that's just not what is happening. They largely want DSLRs and they are willing to pay +20% or more for the DSLR over the mirrorless. I know things may be different outside of where I live, but this is what I am seeing.

If this continues for another year or two (ie. if mirrorless doesn't control at least 30-40% of the entry market despite having the edge on price and size) then it seems like that is 'as big as it's going to be'.



Sep 28, 2012 at 04:39 AM
ausemmao
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Bye bye dslr...


Access wrote:
I don't see mirrorless ever replacing the DSLR, at least not in the west. Most of the new people I see irl who are just starting out with photography are still buying DSLRs despite there being three very capable mirrorless options out there (for most types of photography). I think we will know for sure in a year or two how big or significant mirrorless is going to be. I also don't expect a worthwhile FF mirrorless to arrive, if there is one, it will be too limited, too niche.


It's going to replace DSLRs.

The reason it's taken longer in the West to catch on is that there's a weird obsession with cameras being 'big' and 'metal' and 'solid', and a dislike of the computerisation of photography and resisting touchscreen and software control of cameras among the older generation - the ones who in general can afford mid-high end DSLRs and the attendant accessories (also a massive, MASSIVE generalisation, but it does hold over the population and we are talking large scale trends). How many comments do we get here about a D7000 class body being too small for one's hands? (and yet those same people decry the D800 for having hard to reach buttons on the top plate... ). In the younger (my generation of mid 20s and below, we grew up with plastic and software - metal is just another material, and a lack of programmability is a needless restriction. Now, our generation is also the one that is having a little trouble generating disposable income due to a bit of a slowdown (!), but once that catches up, the buying habits will start to make a difference. A lot of photographers my age are getting mirrorless as their primary system, and many of the ones that aren't would if they could match certain DSLR capabilities even with current limitations.

There's also a bit of a difference in use cases. A lot of cameras here are nominally at least bought to shoot sports. Until on sensor PDAF matures DSLRs will be massively superior for that. Once it matures, and viewfinder refresh rates and output DR improve, it's only a matter of time before even that gets taken over. No calibration to worry about, no mirror to drive at 12fps (witness even the A65's framerate with lack of mirror to move).

I remember the comments on live view being a 'consumer' feature, something that didn't belong on 'pro' bodies (never mind that it was effectively giving you a digital equivalent of a 4x5 ground glass screen to look at). Noone says that now.

Edit: to be clear on the generational divide thing: you won't hear a mid 20s or younger person complaining about touchscreens on DSLRs. I have heard 50 year old guys who have used smartphones since they needed styluses and can build their own computers complain about cameras being too much like computers. It's a difference in expectation of what a camera 'should' be that I'm talking about, not a difference in ability.



Sep 28, 2012 at 08:06 AM
n0b0
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Bye bye dslr...


I totally agree with retrofocus. I'll look into mirrorless when they come with FF sensor, good AF and great lens system, or at least has plenty of 3rd party support, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, ie. not Leica price.


Sep 28, 2012 at 11:30 AM
Access
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Bye bye dslr...


ausemmao wrote:
The reason it's taken longer in the West to catch on is that there's a weird obsession with cameras being 'big' and 'metal' and 'solid', and a dislike of the computerisation of photography and resisting touchscreen and software control of cameras among the older generation - the ones who in general can afford mid-high end DSLRs and the attendant accessories (also a massive, MASSIVE generalisation, but it does hold over the population and we are talking large scale trends).

I know what you mean by 'big' and 'solid', I think that's part of it too. But I don't see this attitude going away without some kind of equally big motivation. Take the SUV craze, that would likely have gone on in perpetuity were it not for rising gas prices making the vehicles costly and untenable. That's why I give it one or two more years to change before it's locked in. Sooner or later something will come along to replace DSLRs, it just won't be mirrorless (the next thing, whatever that is, or the one after that and so on).

I hope I'm wrong, I'm just not seeing it, not yet at least. The one large local group (100+ active members) is mostly retirees and semi-pros, and there's absolutely no change there (I'm the only one). But what really concerns me is that the newer entries into the photography field (younger generation, primarily 20-30 yrs) just isn't buying into it, they're still buying DSLRs.



Sep 28, 2012 at 01:50 PM
pKai
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Bye bye dslr...


I doubt DSLRs will ever disappear in the advanced-amateur and pro ranks. Not for decades, if ever.... There is something inherently different about looking through an optical viewfinder and looking at a video image inside what looks like a viewfinder but isn't. Even the much-touted OM-D has a perceptible lag in what you see in the EVF and what is really happening,

OTOH, on the consumer side... the DSLR is totally screwed. I fully expect the lower-end Nikons and Canon's Rebel line to disappear in favor of mirrorless over the next few years.



Sep 28, 2012 at 02:05 PM
 

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Gunzorro
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Bye bye dslr...


If one wants a large high quality imaging sensor, and TTL optical viewing system for more precision and spontaneity, we are at the dimensions of a FF DSLR with mirror housing.

I admit there is a lot going for the little cameras, and I like the freedom they provide -- easy of use and lightweight. But for "serious" work, I still prefer the large and heavier body for stability and the large sensor for IQ, and the TTL viewfinder for immediacy.

I'm with n0b0, those are great attributes to look forward to.



Sep 28, 2012 at 02:14 PM
russellnadler
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Bye bye dslr...


I think I may take the plunge and sell the 35L in favor of the nex7


Sep 28, 2012 at 03:05 PM
WT21
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Bye bye dslr...


Do you shoot wide open a lot? If so, you can't replace a 5D + 35L with AF. Doesn't exist yet (I just tried). You can do a NEX + MF lenses and get kind of close. You can also do m43 + MF (voigt 17.5/0.95) and again get kind of close. But you can't fully replace it.

I see you also said you're going NEX7. I've not had the NEX7, but the 5n (and 5R and 6) are reputed to have better sensors, FYI, in terms of CA and corner sharpness (via microlens arrangements).



Sep 28, 2012 at 05:32 PM
OntheRez
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Bye bye dslr...


In reference to the thread title, quoting Mark Twain, "Rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated."

Sure imaging will advance in ways that will render the SLR obsolete. It's a ways off and even after it happens there will still be folks shooting with that "archaic" technology.

Robert
(Who has been known to shoot a roll or 3 of Tri-X on an old Olympus OM-4.)



Sep 28, 2012 at 07:48 PM
jcolwell
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Bye bye dslr...


WT21 wrote:
Do you shoot wide open a lot? If so, you can't replace a 5D + 35L with AF....


I've used the X100 with its 'equivalent' 35mm f/2 lens alongside my 1DX + 70-200/2.8L IS II and 85/1.2L II for a number of recent, mostly low-light events. Works great! OTOH, I won't be selling my 35L any time soon. Nor will I be selling my 1DX and 1DIV, any time oon.



Sep 28, 2012 at 08:03 PM
Yakim Peled
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Bye bye dslr...


I'm thinking with the same lines. I already started selling some stuff at the B&S forum and the only trades I'm willing to consider is OM-D and MFT primes. However, I will consider the 40/2.8 as well for the time being....

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Sep 28, 2012 at 08:36 PM
Mpking
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Bye bye dslr...


If I were you, I'd probably hang onto your Canon lenses. Sounds like the only thing keeping you from the EOS-M is the lack of a viewfinder. Odds are that Canon will produce an M mount camera with a viewfinder sometime soon. Go ahead a sell your 5Dc but I'd keep the lenses. It's not like they will loose their value too much over time like a camera body will.


Sep 28, 2012 at 09:10 PM
jerrykur
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Bye bye dslr...


russellnadler wrote:
I think I may take the plunge and sell the 35L in favor of the nex7


Have you seen the NEX 6? It looks like a better deal to me.



Sep 28, 2012 at 11:01 PM
didierv
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Bye bye dslr...


I have a 5D classic and recently purchased a OM-D.
I took both on a 3 week trip to India.
In the end I do not think the biggest difference is in image quality. The OM-D passed that test with flying colors.
The biggest difference is in ergonomics not IQ.
You have to try one to see if it right for you.
Personally I will not sell my DSLR, but I am also very very happy to have the OM-D



Sep 29, 2012 at 01:57 AM
MartyC
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Bye bye dslr...


I added a Sony Nex 7 with the 24mm Zeiss f1.8 (36mm with 1.5 crop) to my Canon gear for a lightweight alternative. Very nice viewfinder and LCD. Surprising image quality. The Nex 6 will be less money and maybe a better value.


Sep 29, 2012 at 02:30 AM
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