Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2012 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?

Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Thinking of upgrading my 2x TC II to the III version if IQ improvement is significant. Would love to see crops of feather detail at wide open with the latest Canon doubler, preferably with any Big White.

TIA,

Romy



Sep 22, 2012 at 07:17 AM
Wahoowa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


From what I've heard, 1.4x II and 1.4x III are about the same in IQ. So, I'm keeping my 1.4x II. But I've heard that 2x III is much improved over 2x II. And so I'm keeping an eye on a 2x deal to pop up.

What lens will you be using with? I'm thinking about getting one to use with my recently purchased 300/2.8L IS.

I compared both versions here:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=249&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=2&LensComp=249&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=2



Sep 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM
Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Wahoowa wrote:
From what I've heard, 1.4x II and 1.4x III are about the same in IQ. So, I'm keeping my 1.4x II. But I've heard that 2x III is much improved over 2x II. And so I'm keeping an eye on a 2x deal to pop up.

What lens will you be using with? I'm thinking about getting one to use with my recently purchased 300/2.8L IS.



Primarily on the 400 2.8 IS and 500 f4 IS for birding. Secondarily on the 400 5.6L or 100-400 IS for moonshots.

If I upgrade to the 2x III, I intend to keep my 2x II for stackability.



Sep 22, 2012 at 03:23 PM
speedmaster20d
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


The 2X TCIII is significantly better than the 2X TCII in terms of wide open sharpness and also AI-servo AF performance but only when used with series II super telephoto lenses. With the series I super-telephoto lenses the sharpness improves somewhat but IMO it is not critically sharp wide-open. Either version performs poorly on a 400 f/5.6 or 100-400. you'd better be off using the 1.4X and up-rezing your images in post.

See my review of 2X TCIII on 600II but keep in mind you it will not be as good on series I super telephoto lenses.

http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/a-field-day-with-the-canon-extender-ef-2x-iii-and-600-f4ii/


Note that you cannot stack series III extenders unless you put an extension tube in between. The optical formula is not really optimized for that and the IQ will be poor.



Sep 22, 2012 at 03:51 PM
Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Excellent review with incredible images, Arash!

Looking at the crops, it seems to my eyes that the 600 f4 II + 2x III is not sharper than my 400 2.8 IS + 2x II, both at wide open. I wonder if the IQ difference between the II and the III is relatively tiny, and one has to shoot both side by side at the same detailed subject to appreciate the improvement?



Sep 22, 2012 at 04:08 PM
speedmaster20d
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Thanks Romy

I am not sure if that is an apple to apple comparisson. The crops above are unsharpened also with a 600 you are shooting from farther away, there is more atmospheric refraction effects. You need to do a controlled test with identical subject, distance RAW conversion etc. to make that call.


The improvement over 600 and 500 MKI is significant if you did a controlled test. I will add some $ bill test shots later as a reference.




Sep 22, 2012 at 04:53 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Pareng Romy, I believe you should be able to see some improvement with 2xTC MkIII on your 400 f/2.8 IS MkI......definitely worth the cost of MkII to MKIII TC upgrading.
In fact, that is an extremely cost effective way of improving IQ, however minor it might turn out to be.

People usually spend thousands of $$ for very modest to non-existent IQ improvements when upgrading their long lenses or cameras.



Sep 22, 2012 at 05:18 PM
skibum5
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


I think I have some up here somewhere 2x TC III with 300 2.8 IS.
I touch blurry on 7D not as so on 5D3. Maybe something near the quality of a wide open tamron 70-300 VC at 300mm I'd roughly say.



Sep 22, 2012 at 05:23 PM
Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


speedmaster20d wrote:
Thanks Romy

I am not sure if that is an apple to apple comparisson. The crops above are unsharpened also with a 600 you are shooting from farther away, there is more atmospheric refraction effects. You need to do a controlled test with identical subject, distance RAW conversion etc. to make that call.

The improvement over 600 and 500 MKI is significant if you did a controlled test. I will add some $ bill test shots later as a reference.



I agree Arash, a controlled test is perhaps the only way to appreciate the IQ difference. I wish I can borrow a 2x III from my birding pals one of these days to check.

I'm actually happy with the optics of my 2x II but would welcome any improvement in IQ (even if minor, as Peter said) with the 2x III. AF speed difference is not too important to me for a 2x TC, as I rarely use such at BIFs.

Just for reference, here's what I get with closer subjects from the old doubler - Canon 1D MIV + 400 2.8 IS + Canon 2x TC II, 800 mm, f/5.6, ISO 1600, 1/320 sec, 475B/516 support, manual exposure in available light, processed 100% crop, less than 5 m distance.

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/146201228/original.jpg


A full-res sample from almost 50 m away = 7D + 500 f4 IS + 2x II, albeit stopped down to f/10 (2/3 from wide open):
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/145774575/original



Sep 22, 2012 at 05:53 PM
OwlsEyes
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Liquidstone...
Maybe your expectations are greater than mine, but if this is a 100% crop w/ your current 2x rig, I'd say you've got a nice package! Did you use flash or is this natural light? If it's natural light and you were to add a pop of fill, I'll bet you'd get a tad more resolution.

I'm using the 300 2.8ISL w/ a 1.4x vi and am looking to add a 2x... I've had the v1 2x and it was lousy in low light but ok w/ fill. Your image here suggests that the 2x vII will perform nicely... not sure you'll get much better w/ vIII... If you're looking for ultimate detail, you should be looking towards a longer lens (600 f4?)... just my humble opinion.
bruce



Sep 22, 2012 at 06:24 PM
speedmaster20d
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Nice Romy This was taken from at least 10X closer than my shot and also it seems to have had some sharpening/processing applied (LR applies sharpening by default) so it has more visible details but not really a comparison IMO.

Interestingly, the f/10 sample which was taken from farther away looks a bit soft/hazy.

I think the best way is to buy or rent one and test in the field, if you don't like it you can always sell.
It's almost a pocket change given the recent Canon pricing policies



Sep 22, 2012 at 06:25 PM
skibum5
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Yeah the only way to know is to test it on the same lens and body combo, same subject, lighting exactly the same, etc. Seeing shots others post here and comparing to your will be dicey going unless the quality difference is way larger than likely.


Sep 22, 2012 at 06:43 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


Liquidstone wrote:
Just for reference, here's what I get with closer subjects from the old doubler - Canon 1D MIV + 400 2.8 IS + Canon 2x TC II, 800 mm, f/5.6, ISO 1600, 1/320 sec, 475B/516 support, manual exposure in available light, processed 100% crop, less than 5 m distance.



I obviously can not say how much better you could get with 2xTC MkIII, if at all, on that sort of a proximity shot. (Incidentally, I believe the bird in that shot was frontfocused slightly, assuming that you aimed for the eye, and not for its flanks ).


If you shot something , say, 60 ft distant, then the resolving power is being tested at a distance which really warrants a deployment of an 800mm combo, and I'd be trying to explore the IQ in such medium (and long) range shots, as opposed to proximity shots.



Sep 22, 2012 at 07:01 PM
Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


PetKal wrote:
(Incidentally, I believe the bird in that shot was frontfocused slightly, assuming that you aimed for the eye, and not for its flanks ).



The bird was flitting around when I took the shot, and you're right, I wish the critical plane of focus was placed about 1 mm nearer. The total length of the bird is 4 inches,so one can imagine how thin the DOF is at less than 5 m distance, using 800mm at f/5.6. That said, where it critically focused was full of fine feathers and this makes the shot a good example for the wide open IQ of the 2x II.


PetKal wrote:
If you shot something , say, 60 ft distant, then the resolving power is being tested at a distance which really warrants a deployment of an 800mm combo, and I'd be trying to explore the IQ in such medium (and long) range shots, as opposed to proximity shots.


An 800 mm combo, especially if the MFD is as close as 3 m, is not only for long range. It's equally useful at filling the frame with very small birds, up close.



Sep 22, 2012 at 08:34 PM
Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


speedmaster20d wrote:
Nice Romy This was taken from at least 10X closer than my shot and also it seems to have had some sharpening/processing applied (LR applies sharpening by default) so it has more visible details but not really a comparison IMO.

Interestingly, the f/10 sample which was taken from farther away looks a bit soft/hazy.

I think the best way is to buy or rent one and test in the field, if you don't like it you can always sell.
It's almost a pocket change given the recent Canon pricing policies



I wish you have some crops of proximity shots with the wide open 600 II + 2x III handy, Arash. Though it might not be exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, seeing a "wow" crop from a topnotch birdshooter like you might be the push I need to buy the new doubler.



Sep 22, 2012 at 08:52 PM
Liquidstone
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 2x TC III wide open samples?


OwlsEyes wrote:
Liquidstone...
Maybe your expectations are greater than mine, but if this is a 100% crop w/ your current 2x rig, I'd say you've got a nice package! Did you use flash or is this natural light? If it's natural light and you were to add a pop of fill, I'll bet you'd get a tad more resolution.

I'm using the 300 2.8ISL w/ a 1.4x vi and am looking to add a 2x... I've had the v1 2x and it was lousy in low light but ok w/ fill. Your image here suggests that the 2x vII will perform nicely... not sure
...Show more

Thanks, Bruce. I shot in natural light, as I personally don't use artificial lighting at wild bird images (I do use flash at macros and people shots).

The 600 f4 (I and II) or the 800L should be great at distance shots, but I value very much the 3 m MFD of the 400 2.8 IS + 2x TC. At BIFs, I use a 500 f4 + 1.4x - AF is fast enough and reach is not too bad, especially with a 7D.



Sep 22, 2012 at 08:57 PM





FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.