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Archive 2012 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?
  
 
Kit Laughlin
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p.3 #1 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


itai95, I have not heard of that, but the iPad is not a pro tool (IMHO) in any way, but a product consuming device, so I am not completely surprised to hear this.

This is just a suggestion, but it's best practise to do a full format every time you put a used card in a camera anyway. It will solve that problem completely (especially if it is well known that the iPad does this). Much has been written about this format-every-time practise, too.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:00 AM
itai195
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p.3 #2 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


There have been threads and posts about the issue on this forum and on dpreview. I even helped several people on dpreview who ran into the issue early in the X-Pro1's rollout. Steve Huff ran into it in his X-Pro1 review. I'm pretty sure I've even seen the Fuji guys warn people about this on their twitter feed.

You're misplacing blame by assigning it to the iPad. I'm aware of no other camera manufacturer that has this issue, it's purely a Fuji problem.


At any rate, doing a full format of the card every time I put it in the camera is–plain and simple–a non-starter for me. Any camera that requires doing that will never be a camera I purchase. I'm hoping the X-E1 doesn't have the problem.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:05 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.3 #3 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


itai95, you wrote:

but if my camera takes over 30s to start up because it can't handle some hidden files my Mac put on the SD card, well, that's just unacceptable

Then you said it's the iPad's connection that is the problem; it does not matter where the hidden files come from. I did not 'place the blame' on the iPad, just quoted what you said.

Format the card, and any camera, including Fujis, will work as advertised. Not sure why you are coming back to me on this.

OTOH, if waiting 30"+ for your camera to start up is working for you, no problems.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:11 AM
itai195
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p.3 #4 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


I don't intend to pick on you personally for this, sorry if I'm coming across that way. I've just heard this all before. I resolved this issue with the X-Pro1 by returning the camera and all the lenses to store. As per my original post, this is an example of a small thing that Fuji gets absolutely wrong, and has continued to ignore and perpetuate in every camera release since at least the X100.


Oct 02, 2012 at 01:15 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.3 #5 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


itai95, with respect, you are missing my point: it is not the fuji that's putting the non-Fuji files on the card—it's the device you are using post shooting. Fuji is not getting anything wrong in this regard that I can infer from your post.

And, regardless of where these files come from, formatting the card (takes seconds) solves the problem perfectly.

How can this (the need for a card to be formatted before use) be regarded as firstly as a problem, and secondly, a reason for not getting a camera whose other feature I assume you like?

Format the card!



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:21 AM
itai195
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p.3 #6 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


It doesn't matter where the files are coming from, what matters is that this throws off Fuji cameras and yet doesn't have any effect on any other camera from any other manufacturer I've ever used. Fuji needs to fix their firmware so that it ignores these files. It's a fairly straightforward software issue.

I hear what you're saying, but nonetheless I don't want to be required to format my card before using it. Sometimes I want to offload photos to a different device (e.g. an iPad) to share with others, before I get home and can offload them to my home machine. In that case, I don't want to format the card. Sometimes I'm on a trip and want to offload photos to my laptop, but keep them on the card just as a backup precaution. That's simply part of my workflow that any camera I purchase has to support.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:25 AM
hardlyboring
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p.3 #7 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


Let me solve the card problem in 3 words...
LOCK THE CARD

the sd cards have a lock... use it...
The reason why the camera has problems is because the Mac computers will write hidden files to the card every time you plug it in... after a while it corrupts the file system with the Fuji and a massive melt down of the camera happens.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:36 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.3 #8 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


OK; I understand what you are saying now. FWIW, I'd suggest getting more cards if you want to work that way. BTW, it is not accurate to say that no other cameras have this problem when exposed to the workflow you outline; I have definitely heard of this in the medium format world before.

One way to work the way you want and not have the problem is to "quarantine" the various connecting devices' behaviour this way: once you shoot a card and take it out of the camera, keep it out, and connect it to any devices you want; it will not matter what devices you connect it to before getting home and doing the final copy. Use the other cards for the rest of the trip the same way.

All I am saying is that if I were having the problem that you described, and you want to maintain the workflow you describe, finding a way of solving the problem seems better than returning the camera, assuming you liked it. Quarantining the card in the way I describe will solve the problem, but will require that you format the card before using, which is all I was saying before. Over and out on this.

I know this is OT to everyone else here, but I would be interested in other opinions. Personally, I would never connect or use a working card in another device and not format it before re-using, but that's just me.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:42 AM
itai195
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p.3 #9 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


Yup, I tried that but iPads won't download files off a locked card.

Fuji just needs to ignore hidden files. This really is not a difficult problem to solve. Anyway, this topic has grown to dominate the thread a bit and that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to point out that while Fuji is getting plenty right, they still screw up some small things that can drive you crazy.

@Kit I appreciate your suggestions, but I don't want to jump through hoops to work around Fuji's buggy firmware. There are plenty of other attractive cameras out there, I've managed to find several that don't have this issue.



Oct 02, 2012 at 01:45 AM
kewlcanon
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p.3 #10 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


Can Fuji focus ? .


Oct 02, 2012 at 02:06 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



FlyPenFly
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p.3 #11 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


If Fuji just put an improved X100 sensor into their bodies, I probably would have bought one.

There's just no way I'm going to use JPEGs and there's no way I'm not going to use Lightroom.



Oct 02, 2012 at 02:06 AM
snowboarder
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p.3 #12 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


I would not invest in m43 simply because we are so close to the FF compact systems...
It will be a very hard sell soon IMO... I don't doubt those lenses are good, but there is no way
the DOP/bokeh will ever match the FF. m43 can't really match my fast lenses on NEX 5N.
Fuji at least is innovative and the image is very unique, again, IMO.
If I were you, I'd get the RX1. Dead serious.



Oct 02, 2012 at 02:14 AM
douglasf13
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p.3 #13 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


snowboarder wrote:
I would not invest in m43 simply because we are so close to the FF compact systems...
It will be a very hard sell soon IMO... I don't doubt those lenses are good, but there is no way
the DOP/bokeh will ever match the FF. m43 can't really match my fast lenses on NEX 5N.
Fuji at least is innovative and the image is very unique, again, IMO.
If I were you, I'd get the RX1. Dead serious.


I don't think there's any indication that we're close to compact, interchangeable FF systems. Fixed lens, compact FF, yes.



Oct 02, 2012 at 02:21 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.3 #14 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


If you look at the time between the Sony R1, the first APS-C camera with a fixed lens to a APS-C mirrorless camera, it was a looong freaking wait.


Oct 02, 2012 at 02:32 AM
snowboarder
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p.3 #15 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


FlyPenFly wrote:
If you look at the time between the Sony R1, the first APS-C camera with a fixed lens to a APS-C mirrorless camera, it was a looong freaking wait.



That was a loooong time ago Jae. People now upgrade their iPhones every year, just because
the mapps have been changed...
Anyway, after the Photokina I think:
- no M supported FF compact system is gonna show up soon. Too much effort for the lenses made
by competition. Don't see how Sony would invest so much in R&D just to resolve the corner issues
with wide angle M lenses.
- a FF compact system is coming in late 2013. I'm willing to bet $100. It will be a Sony camera coming
with a couple of native lenses and an adapter.



Oct 02, 2012 at 02:41 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.3 #16 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


Oh great, more Sony lenses.

With Zeiss coming out with APS-C lenses, I think FF might be a ways off. That custom lens design for the RX1 looks insane.



Oct 02, 2012 at 02:43 AM
snowboarder
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p.3 #17 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


FlyPenFly wrote:
That custom lens design for the RX1 looks insane.


Yes, but if they CAN, they will make it. I'm 100% positive about that...



Oct 02, 2012 at 02:49 AM
ceder
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p.3 #18 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


FlyPenFly wrote:
Oh great, more Sony lenses.

With Zeiss coming out with APS-C lenses, I think FF might be a ways off. That custom lens design for the RX1 looks insane.


Have you seen the Mamiya-7 43mm lens?



Oct 02, 2012 at 04:27 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #19 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


ceder wrote:
Have you seen the Mamiya-7 43mm lens?


Yep, that 43mm is pretty wild, but getting lens elements that close to film is a much easier endeavor. Plus, as theSuede and others have mentioned, that rear element of the RX1 wouldn't even fit through e-mount easily, so, we'd either need lenses that are SLR-ish (+ adapter) in size, or we'd need another mount from Sony.



Oct 02, 2012 at 04:38 PM
itai195
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p.3 #20 · Which new system? Fuji or m43?


BTW, I asked the Fuji Guys on Twitter if the bug related to hidden files has been fixed and they claim it is in firmware 2.0: https://twitter.com/fujiguys/statuses/253630863185682432

So, that's great news!



Oct 03, 2012 at 11:03 PM
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