Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

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carstenw
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p.64 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Yes, true enough.

Oct 17, 2012 at 08:46 PM

philip_pj
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p.64 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

'Of course they don't. But they benefit from exposing as high as possible, without overexposing.'

I agree with Sebboh; my method is to set up the contrast/wb/modes to something close to how the RAW will look once processed. It's a rare shot that is not quite close even for in-camera jpeg derived histos. Colour is much too important to lose to exposure mistakes, and that is what ETTR is, IMO.

It becomes more egregious with modern Sony high DR sensors, because once colour is lost it is not coming back with full integrity in post. Add to that LR/ACR is so good at recovery at both ends these days, and it should be time to bin the shibboleth of ETTR, since shadow colour is less important than delicate highlight colour. Colour is a midtone phenomenon.

Oct 17, 2012 at 10:27 PM

michaelwatkins
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p.64 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

PhotographyReview.com has a sample image gallery up now.

Edit: Discussion forum link where this was noted:
I've got a gallery of RX1 samples up and I'll be adding to it throughout the day as I work on my first impressions article. Unfortunately, the RX1 isn't supported by Lightroom yet, so I wasn't able to share any RAW images, although I do have them as I shot RAW + JPEG. I feel like the JPEGs are a bit harsh and I'm hoping I can get more out of the RAW files, without as much highlight clipping. Part of the harshness may just be the lens and the sensor, though. One of the things I am noticing - at least with the JPEG files - is this camera is very unforgiving. But when you get it right, it's wonderful.

Oct 18, 2012 at 01:39 AM

Kibsgaard
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p.64 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

michaelwatkins wrote:
PhotographyReview.com has a sample image gallery up now.

Edit: Discussion forum link where this was noted:
I've got a gallery of RX1 samples up and I'll be adding to it throughout the day as I work on my first impressions article. Unfortunately, the RX1 isn't supported by Lightroom yet, so I wasn't able to share any RAW images, although I do have them as I shot RAW + JPEG. I feel like the JPEGs are a bit harsh and I'm hoping I can get more out of the RAW files, without as much highlight clipping. Part of the harshness may just be the lens and the sensor, though. One of the things I am noticing - at least with the JPEG files - is this camera is very unforgiving. But when you get it right, it's wonderful.

Interesting - but can you clear this up a bit - is it the focus or the exposure ?

"is this camera is very unforgiving. But when you get it right, it's wonderful"

Oct 18, 2012 at 01:31 PM

michaelwatkins
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p.64 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

I wondered about that comment too. Their forum has moderation controls which prevent quickly registering to ask the question. I will pose the question once my account has been approved.

Oct 18, 2012 at 01:54 PM

Kibsgaard
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p.64 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

michaelwatkins wrote:
I wondered about that comment too. Their forum has moderation controls which prevent quickly registering to ask the question. I will pose the question once my account has been approved.

Thank you very much

Oct 18, 2012 at 03:54 PM

onpaws
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p.64 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

I think this is the only photo I've seen with the evf attached to the rx1. Although it does seem to protrude from the top quite a bit, it does look comfy.

Oct 18, 2012 at 05:14 PM

philip_pj
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p.64 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

EVF protrudes to provide the fine adjustment to angle of view, which many users seem to enjoy. I saw a vid showing how fast it snaps into place.

Highlight clipping is user error, actually a novice's error - always has been, always will be. Harshness is a qualitative description of limited value in the absence of corroborating evidence or further elucidation.

Trusted sources report an extra stop or two of range from the sensor...'Photo John' is photographing a window with massive LV sunlight pouring in, and perhaps also expects the dark clothing of his subject to carry detail. It won't, even her skin is over-exposed, and the other shot is also over-exposed. And, when did RAW ever fail to get more back from blown highlights, for exposure errors?

Oct 18, 2012 at 09:47 PM

michaelwatkins
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p.64 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

A couple of first impressions reviews from photographers participating in last week's Sony event:

http://reviews.photographyreview.com/sony-rx1-review

That site still hasn't enabled my new user submission so I can ask them about the camera being unforgiving, but in the short article the author touches on that:

Even though the lens is super sharp even at f/2.0 and the bokeh is creamy delicious, the depth-of-field is wicked shallow so you’d best stop down a bit if you want anything to be in focus. If you’re primarily an APS-C shooter like me, the shallow full-frame depth-of-field takes a little getting used to and you’re likely to end up with a whole bunch of images that should have been stopped down a couple of stops. Actually, one of the most important things you need to know about the RX1 is that it’s extremely unforgiving – especially if you’re shooting JPEGs. The sharpness, shallow depth-of-field and highlight clipping are vicious. The sharpness and depth-of-field are a two edged sword because they’re also part of what makes the RX1 a great camera. Make sure you use them wisely.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/10/19/extended-first-impressions-sony-rx-1/

JPEG only samples are getting tedious. I wonder when ACR / Lightroom might get updated to include raw support for the RX1?

Oct 19, 2012 at 10:41 AM

alundeb
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p.64 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

^ Sounds like just lack of experience with fast lenses and 35 mm.

Wonder how sluggish the sluggish AF is.

Oct 19, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Kibsgaard
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p.64 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

michaelwatkins wrote:
A couple of first impressions reviews from photographers participating in last week's Sony event:

http://reviews.photographyreview.com/sony-rx1-review

That site still hasn't enabled my new user submission so I can ask them about the camera being unforgiving, but in the short article the author touches on that:

Even though the lens is super sharp even at f/2.0 and the bokeh is creamy delicious, the depth-of-field is wicked shallow so you’d best stop down a bit if you want anything to be in focus. If you’re primarily an APS-C shooter like me, the shallow full-frame depth-of-field takes a little getting used to and you’re likely to end up with a whole bunch of images that should have been stopped down a couple of stops. Actually, one of the most important things you need to know about the RX1 is that it’s extremely unforgiving – especially if you’re shooting JPEGs. The sharpness, shallow depth-of-field and highlight clipping are vicious. The sharpness and depth-of-field are a two edged sword because they’re also part of what makes the RX1 a great camera. Make sure you use them wisely.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/10/19/extended-first-impressions-sony-rx-1/

JPEG only samples are getting tedious. I wonder when ACR / Lightroom might get updated to include raw support for the RX1?

Thank you- of course the issue with the shallow DOF is just lack of experience, but it will be interesting if the issue=highlight clipping.... is because of not so fine exposure in "in camera" or it has something to do with the lack of 1/8000 sec. ?

Edited on Oct 19, 2012 at 11:06 AM · View previous versions

Oct 19, 2012 at 11:05 AM

michaelwatkins
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p.64 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

alundeb, I agree and have wondered whether others who have published images from the camera normally shoot APS-C compacts or APS-C DSLRs and had not adjusted their approach accordingly.

I put questions out to both on AF performance. So far the only other person who has commented on AF is Steve Huff. His impression was "fast" meaning not DSLR fast but faster than the Fujifilm X line, NEX-7 and some others I can't recall.

Sluggish to Chris Gampat might mean sluggish compared to a PD-AF DSLR.

I'm hoping it's fast enough and accurate enough for 80% of my use. If not, this one thing would probably cause me to reconsider getting the camera because I'm looking to add AF as a capability for my carry everywhere, use for most purposes, camera.

Oct 19, 2012 at 11:06 AM

michaelwatkins
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p.64 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Kibsgaard wrote:
Thank you- of course the issue with the shallow DOF is just lack of experience, but it will be interesting if the issue=highlight clipping.... is because of not so fine exposure in "in camera" or it has something to do with the lack of 1/8000 sec. ?

It doesn't appear to be a factor of the max shutter speed. This image of a woman with the RX1 up to her eye that was discussed earlier was apparently shot at 1/60th second @ f/2.0 at ISO 800. Perhaps shot in auto ISO mode?

With that image perhaps there are multiple factors at work including improper exposure; higher ISO providing less dynamic range (Nikon D600 shows 2 stops less DR at ISO800); straight out of the camera JPEG rendering.

Oct 19, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Kibsgaard
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p.64 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

OK, thanks, but let us hear what he means with the words "higlight clipping", when somebody can join the forum, I have also tryed to join, but it takes days.

Oct 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Kyndel
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p.64 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

It suits me very well that it is a 35mm, and that it is permanent - it is a very useful focal length for so many things, and so you avoid dust on the sensor.

It is also OK, that one should buy various things, because it makes it more pocket friendly, that these things have to be retrofitted, so I was with, although it is disappointing that

A) AF is not on a par with the Olympus E-M5, and it is

B) …disappointing that there is no in-camera stabilization (and those 2 things should be there for the price) and when I found that they have saved a lot, too much is missing for the high price when

1) You can not even get 1/8000 sec - it's not quite so rare that you will be missing it with f 2.0, and maybe you would not want to stop off in bright light for the kind of picture you want.
2) The built-in flash has low strength – this is for a cheaper camera
3) There is to my knowledge no multiple exposure (not talking about HDR – see the link) as nearly all Nikons DSLR.s and now also some Canon cameras has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_exposure

So overall, there is spared too many things in my opinion, and the price does not match the features, so I find it hard to justify to myself to pay the high price you demand, even I have the money ready, but I think I would feel a bit cheated with this high price in Europe.

If you ask about the same price as the Nikon D600 (Europe-prices for both) I am with again, and would feel I better could live with all those missing features, named above A+B + 1-3and I think Sony would benefit and still get their fine investment and fine development back, even it perhaps would take longer time.

So: Well done in the development zone, Sony, but …..hey…. find a decent price.

I will wait and look for a better featured camera for a bit lower price, and it is interesting if this will be Sony – or others will take the challenge too.

But the trend is fine.

Oct 21, 2012 at 01:04 PM

Makten
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p.64 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Kyndel wrote:
If you ask about the same price as the Nikon D600 (Europe-prices for both) I am with again...

It is about the same price as the D600 with a ZF 35/2.

– Can the D600 do 1/8000 second? No.
– Does the D600 have inbuilt image stabilization? No.

I seriously don't understand why the price is a problem. You are asking for a minimal camera that can do everything that a larger camera can, at the same price. How on earth would that be possible?

Oct 21, 2012 at 02:02 PM

carstenw
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p.64 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Kyndel wrote:
It suits me very well that it is a 35mm, and that it is permanent - it is a very useful focal length for so many things, and so you avoid dust on the sensor.

Not necessarily, unfortunately.

3) There is to my knowledge no multiple exposure (not talking about HDR – see the link) as nearly all Nikons DSLR.s and now also some Canon cameras has.

Why on earth would you want this on a digital camera? Merging two photos later can be done with much more accuracy.

Oct 21, 2012 at 03:51 PM

Uncle Mike
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p.64 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

What I don't get about the RX1 is, couldn't Sony have just made a 23mm f/1.3 lens for the NEX cameras and you'd pretty much be able to do the same thing with it? Or maybe such a lens is impossible?

Oct 21, 2012 at 07:14 PM

alundeb
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p.64 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Uncle Mike wrote:
What I don't get about the RX1 is, couldn't Sony have just made a 23mm f/1.3 lens for the NEX cameras and you'd pretty much be able to do the same thing with it? Or maybe such a lens is impossible?

Take a look at the Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 lens for the native E-mount and you get an idea.

Oct 21, 2012 at 07:20 PM

michaelwatkins
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p.64 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Maybe a better question to ask is why Leica didn't see fit to equip the Leica X1 or X2 with faster lenses? The APS-C X2 has a 24mm f/2.8 lens and retails for only $800 less than the Sony RX1, and like the RX1 it has no viewfinder either.

Anyone want to bet that an APS-C Leica X2 with a Summilux f/1.4 or f/1.3 would come in at way more than a full frame Sony RX1?

I'm ok with paying a little less for the lens component and a little more for the larger sensor if the net is the same and I get the bigger sensor benefits.

Oct 21, 2012 at 07:25 PM

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