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Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
  
 
philip_pj
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p.173 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


You really have to see your own work with it to realise just what it is capable of. I have never seen anything so scalpel like yet with such fine OOF and colour handling. It's a disarming combination that delivers a killer keeper rate with casual nonchalance. Even non-photographers are impressed.

Sony and Zeiss (but Sony manufacture it, by hand) set themselves a very high bar for future cameras, a fact of which they are no doubt aware. They are on record as saying the IQ of the RX1 cannot be matched with an ILC - but technology marches on apace. We will soon see if strides in sensor design plus the best of the rest is enough to get over that bar. If they even get close, the new FF camera is assured of success IMO.



Sep 15, 2013 at 01:01 AM
TMaG82
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p.173 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


snowboarder wrote:
OK, I know I'm late to this party and I resisted joining it mostly because of the LCD which can't be tilted
(still sucks), but this thing is out of this world! Seriously great image quality.
Yes, it's a little too small almost and the RRS grip helps a lot. But that lens, damn, it is good.
They will have a hard time matching the FF NEX to this gem. People will be comparing those two,
Sony I hope you are up to the task!
I'm going for a great trip in a couple of weeks and will come back with tons of photos, will
...Show more

Another thing that may help is getting a thumb grip, even if its not the ridicously priced Sony one. But for smaller cameras like this, adding a thumb grip improves handling a ton.



Sep 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM
h00ligan
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p.173 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


So has anyone been able to answer which remote triggers or flashes work with wireless commander mode? If Wally love this camera but just put it up for sale. While the focal length won't always work for work I could justify it if I could get it to work with my existing canon flashes or even stick around the price working wireless ttl triggers with Sony strobes.

The new smaller flash they announced, does that one work? I need something strong enough to balance the dimmer indoor light with window light , one is often enough, but two would be for sure...but at $400 it still seems I would have to buy a sony flash to mount tot he camera, which will not work - especially given the flash doubles he weight practically.

I have a 580 ex I I and 430 ex ii currently not using ttl wireless but corded master and slave config. That could work too, if the canon flash would talk to the sony camera in ttl!

Appreciate any guidance, I realize it's a big of a square peg situation, but I'd rather sell a 35L than this camera, but even in that case money wise I'm already out

Ttl matters because frankly I'm not fast enough to work with three units in the time frame interior designers and clients want me in and out. As fantastic as it is, the camera is a huge luxury for me, and if I can't wedge it in to shoulder at least the main 35mm work, I'll have to say goodbye

If a ff Nex comes out they will be hard pressed to equal this camera. IMO. However I'm a believer and will start to. Migrate over to that system as soon as possible..however from what I see the flash offerings are meager and the wireless commander gig very few seem to be able to even attempt to explain, including sony salesmen.



Sep 15, 2013 at 02:40 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.173 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


h00ligan wrote:
So has anyone been able to answer which remote triggers or flashes work with wireless commander mode? If Wally love this camera but just put it up for sale. While the focal length won't always work for work I could justify it if I could get it to work with my existing canon flashes or even stick around the price working wireless ttl triggers with Sony strobes.

The new smaller flash they announced, does that one work? I need something strong enough to balance the dimmer indoor light with window light , one is often enough, but two would be
...Show more

Maybe this thread will help one way or the other:

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=20384



Sep 15, 2013 at 06:47 PM
h00ligan
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p.173 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Thanks for that link, that's what I mean. Maybe I misread but didn't the Sony sell as being able to act as a wireless commander? If it can't control their latest flash, what can it control...if their definition of wireless trigger is it makes a flSh that can be used to set off other flashes, that's ridiculous.

If I am wrong, I'd like to know...otherwise, I'd really like to know what exactly it can wirelessly trigger?

Revised manual has this as a foot note in the functions setting option, pg 26 of the PDF.
*1 Wireless flash shooting is not available with the built-in flash.

So basically what it can do to draw a comparison is this:

Instead of having to buy a huge bulky flash with a brain to wireless trigger others, it uses some system they arrived at and put half the brain in the camera. So in canon land, I could have two 430 ex flashes rather than a 580 mounted ..so maybe some weight savings. But why haven't hey released a small hotshoe mount wireless trigger then.

In my opinion, If a camera requires more gear to wirelessly trigger a flash, it's not capable of wireless commanding.
I gather flashes have been a sore subject for alpha users quite a while between standards changing and lack of options. I don't see anything smaller than the new one that would trigger even other sony flashes.

For me, The cameras simply too small to put a 12 ounce flash on the top. It would handle poorly, it would look ridiculous, and it would be less effective than a less costly solution. I just feel like I must be missing it.

Does sony have anything like the small canon hotshoe mount that is a trigger only?

This just can't be right... I think I will call them. Though that doesn't mean I shall get an answer!



Sep 15, 2013 at 09:41 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.173 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Something like the small Sony HVLF20M sounds like it should work as a wireless trigger on the RX1 but I can't say for sure as I don't own it. Apparently, it works like that with the NEX-6.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HVLF20M-External-Flash-Alpha/dp/B00BJGNRR2/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt



Sep 15, 2013 at 10:14 PM
h00ligan
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p.173 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


There are three mui flashes available, anything ending in m, not am. Am is the old style shoe.

Hvl20m, 43m, 60m - number is the guide range

They use Ir triggering, so it's line of sight

The smallest trigger, when erect from folded down has the following dimensions

Dimensions (Approx.) : (WHD) 2 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 31/32 inches (62 x 114 x 24mm)
Weight (Approx.) : (105g) 3.7oz

Requires 2aaa, so add that to the weight.

My main issue is the height. The rep said it always emits some sort of flash "but it doesn't affect the image"

They need to make something like the ste-2 it could be a lot small era though, because the camera controls the elements, I believe..though I'm not sure if it can handle grouping or the flash would need to

Bottom line for the hassle and inconvenience, it's easier to get to yungnao flashes and some earl wireless trigger..I just have to find out what will work






Sep 15, 2013 at 10:26 PM
philip_pj
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p.173 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


millsart remarked that the small built-in flash worked surprisingly well but I can't recall having ever seen an RX1 image shot with 'substantial' flash input.

It's really not that kind of camera, I feel. The RX1 designers say they worked on 'making the shadows and highlights of the camera match that of human vision', to paraphrase their expression. It is an uncanny ambient light device.



Sep 15, 2013 at 11:08 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.173 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I agree that it's not the ideal camera for this use. What I found out though is that there is a setting in the RX1 which will allow the camera to work with Sony's wireless flash system (control an off camera Sony flash) but that feature does not work with the built in flash. It apparently (I have not tested it myself) should work with the small HVLF20M I mentioned above by setting the RX1 to "Wireless" for the flash mode. Here is the manual for that little flash:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HVLF20M_EN_FR.pdf

That said, even trying to shoehorn the RX1 into use with external flash is problematic depending on how you have the RX1 set up and plan to use it. For instance, with an EVF or optical finder attached, you of course loose your hotshoe, completely knocking out the above option or even a shoe mounted wireless trigger. Even the testing I have done with using the built-in pop up flash to trigger the slave on my stand alone Dynalite powerpack/ strobes has been unsuccessful. The flash will trigger it but it's not in sync at all, regardless of the flash mode setting used on the RX1. I didn't buy the RX1 with this sort of use in mind anyway though and I have been happy with the capability of the little pop up flash in the situations where I've used it (fill flash with people closer to the camera).



Sep 15, 2013 at 11:51 PM
h00ligan
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p.173 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Good points. Thanks for the info. I don't need the evf when I would be using flash.. and i agree, it's me trying to hold on to a camera that's not meant for this - but I'm trying to make it fit! The issue is, even with the great dynamic range it's too much indoor to outdoor - in arizona.

I don't feel like hdr stacking. It was an idea, I will look a bit more into it, but I think we shall likely be forced to part.



Sep 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM
 

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h00ligan
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p.173 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


philip_pj wrote:
millsart remarked that the small built-in flash worked surprisingly well but I can't recall having ever seen an RX1 image shot with 'substantial' flash input.

It's really not that kind of camera, I feel. The RX1 designers say they worked on 'making the shadows and highlights of the camera match that of human vision', to paraphrase their expression. It is an uncanny ambient light device.


I missed this earlier, sorry for the double. I agree it is an ambient light monster, the thing is...they don't even have to change the camer, just add a $100 mui shoe it trigger - no bigger than the evf.

Why limit the possibilities. And the other part is, they are standardizing mui so alpha, Nex, cyber shot. There are enough small cameras there that attract strobists of some nature.



Sep 16, 2013 at 02:20 AM
Dpedraza
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p.173 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Has anyone tried out the hood from Fotodiox?
I was just looking for a cheaper alternative to the Sony hood.

http://fotodioxpro.com/index.php/fotodiox-dedicated-bayonet-lens-hood-for-sony-cyber-shot-rx1-dsc-rx1-digital-camera-replaces-sony-lhp1.html



Sep 16, 2013 at 05:43 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.173 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Dpedraza wrote:
Has anyone tried out the hood from Fotodiox?
I was just looking for a cheaper alternative to the Sony hood.

http://fotodioxpro.com/index.php/fotodiox-dedicated-bayonet-lens-hood-for-sony-cyber-shot-rx1-dsc-rx1-digital-camera-replaces-sony-lhp1.html



A number of us have. Look back a month or so in the thread.



Sep 16, 2013 at 06:20 PM
ricardovaste
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p.173 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Well I would say my initial real world testings of the RX1 went pretty atrociously . It's a mixture of me being of ape-like configuration and the weather/setting just not blending well.

Firstly, there were showers of heavy rain, which makes things difficult. And one of those days where you just don't really see much to photograph, but perhaps I was looking too hard for it. And then, yesterday, was a stark reminder of what I really hate doing... but it had just been SO long (years and years) since I'd done it that I just thought my perspective may had changed. Seems it hasn't much. I basically wondered around on my own (due to being presented with such time) for a few hours looking for things to photograph. Just terrible. It reaffirmed what I like about using a small camera - just doing as you wish and having a great time, and if you happen to see something you have a camera with you to capture it. Actively searching for images was very unsatisfying.

Secondly, I'm just not sure how I want to work with it yet. I had it go onto standby after 20 seconds, thinking this would save me turning it on and off. But it just made it clunky stop-start. Then I tried fiddling with it being an AF camera (using OVF) and just stopping down lots... never really got it to work. I think the problem I have is I'm not sure how to have it setup in order for it to react quickly. Towards the end, I just had it in MF and F16, and the shutter somewhere reasonable, and was turning it on and off - this seemed like a workable compromise. Perhaps this would help battery life too. Although the battery life is terrible, it's no different to carrying a couple of rolls of film with me, so I'm fine with that.

Perhaps it's because I've used the same cameras for so long that it doesn't yet feel comfortable. THAT, and the weather / situations being a bit 'damp'.

Hopefully the next outing will be more productive (literally took bugger all and those that I did were mostly OOF, random, or just nothingness).

p.s. if anyone has any passing advice on these ramblings feel free to share.



Sep 17, 2013 at 05:11 PM
sebboh
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p.173 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


ricardovaste wrote:
Secondly, I'm just not sure how I want to work with it yet. I had it go onto standby after 20 seconds, thinking this would save me turning it on and off. But it just made it clunky stop-start. Then I tried fiddling with it being an AF camera (using OVF) and just stopping down lots... never really got it to work. I think the problem I have is I'm not sure how to have it setup in order for it to react quickly. Towards the end, I just had it in MF and F16, and the shutter somewhere reasonable,
...Show more

my advice: set it to go on standby after 30 min and just turn the camera on and off (or just leave it on to hold focus and carry an extra battery). turning the camera on is faster than waking it up. if you must use AF set it to center point or face recognition if you plan on doing people. the focus scale works fine for zone focusing at 1m or greater. i would just use that and set it to f/8 or f/11. if i'm carrying the camera in a bag i just preset the focus and set it to f/11 so i can pull it out and shoot (in my pocket the focus ring tends to move so that doesn't work).




Sep 17, 2013 at 06:22 PM
Jonas B
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p.173 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I don't fear bad weather very much (page 58 post #10) but just cover the camera with the left hand while shooting, trusting the AF (center point) and the Auto ISO to help me keep things reasonably steady and sharp. That is with the EVF attached all the time.

I'm seldom in such a hurry. I turn the camera on and off between shots and for the most time the AF will get it right. Whenever I have the time I focus manually (a left click with the round wheel takes me from AF to MF). I have the camera set to A-mode, Auto-ISO and magnification when turning the focusing ring is activated. I have the camera in a satchel bag, standing on the L-part of the full RRS grip so the grip is pointing upwards allowing me to easily get the camera out of the bag and still safely kept in my hand.

When in a hurry I hold the camera, prefocused, in my hand. If I very often would have needed a camera that starts up and focus in no-time I would look for something else. I guess I'm lucky not needing anything that speedy.

Searching for images may make photographing boring. From time to time I have periods when I don't shoot much, or anything at all. When out looking for images I have decided it is totally OK getting back home without having taken anything. I have learned that whenever I take an image just for the sake of getting something it always ends up in the bin. That's a responsibility.... having created all those 24 millions pixels and then kill them...

As you haven't owned the camera that long I think you should practice different settings and find a way you want to use. Knowing the gear well is, at least for me, the only way not to miss those slowly coming but hastily disappearing moments. Carefully deciding about the user presets can help.

I like the RX1 for several reasons. One of them is that it allows me to be unusually relaxed about the technical aspects. The AF works fine, I have no problems with focusing manually using the EVF, the exposure meter usually gets it right also when I don't compensate and the files are, as a result, most often fully usable without me having to watch out for anything but the worst situations.

I hope you'll find your way as the sensor/lens combo is wonderful and the whole contraption very rewarding.



Sep 17, 2013 at 07:07 PM
ricardovaste
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p.173 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Thanks to you both for the tips! I shall give them a try. I'm confident I'll get it to work for me, just slow progress... I think when you use one thing for so long, it can feel like you almost stop thinking when you use it as everything is second nature. That's probably where the frustration lies.


Jonas B wrote:
Knowing the gear well is, at least for me, the only way not to miss those slowly coming but hastily disappearing moments. Carefully deciding about the user presets can help..


Agreed!



Sep 17, 2013 at 08:52 PM
carstenw
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p.173 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Jonas B wrote:
I don't fear bad weather very much (page 58 post #10) but just cover the camera with the left hand while shooting


On that topic, did you figure out yet why you get black images in bad weather?



Sep 17, 2013 at 10:17 PM
philip_pj
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p.173 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Ricardo, I agree with the start up suggestions, and add that you will get familiar much more quickly just shooting scores of images indoors or in a comfortable familiar environment - either of loved ones (who generally do not notice the tiny quiet device) or of furniture, clothing or wall hangings - pretty much anything with intricate detail. Try to get a feel for how the RX1 portrays depth and colour. There is almost nothing this camera cannot do justice to for its FL.

Don't fuss over even very high ISO, for learning purposes 12800 is a good upper limit. Find any garden or tree and experiment with shooting distances. Try the excellent macro setting on anything. FWIW, I use A mode, and balance ISO with shutter speed, but I am an EVF enthusiast so that mode is easy for me. Let the AF do its thing in its own good time, it will nearly always get there given a second, even in dark caves.

What you need is an habitual usage pattern, a set of procedures that quickly become second nature, and I would not confuse settling on these usage preferences with trying to shoot real photographs right off the bat. You will likely find that the rendering is easier to assess if you don't try to shoot masterpieces right off ;-)

Finally, f16 is such a waste I never use it. The ideal range is this: idealised (i.e. planned) bokeh and dof - f2-f4, best IQ for deep scenes f5.6-f11, f4 is 'least excellent'. You can find excellent image ideas in the RX1(r) image thread, which I strongly recommend taking a good look at. And if you don't already have one, a soft release is very worthwhile, we had a chat about them some pages back.



Sep 17, 2013 at 11:37 PM
Jonas B
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p.173 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


carstenw wrote:
On that topic, did you figure out yet why you get black images in bad weather?


That's a problem I never have run into. It sounds very unfortunate but must have been somebody else. Maybe I have better start carrying an umbrella myself... No thanks. Whoever having that problem should get his/her camera replaced or repaired imo.



Sep 18, 2013 at 05:37 AM
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