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Archive 2012 · Like your opinion on a concept.
  
 
ben egbert
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p.1 #1 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Posted earlier, but I started a new one because this is a different question. I want to know if the concept for a new trip up to this place is worth while. Or is this scene just too lackluster?

I originally posted the 17TSE shot, which has the better sky and reflection than the test image at 14mm which I took when I first arrived and decided was too wide.

But I was Inspired by Aunti and Sadja who preferred the 14mm shot. This view has grown on me so I did a dramatized version cropped to move the center up.

It is flawed because of a poor reflection and not such a great sky. I was ready to abandon this place for future work, but now I am tempted to return with the idea of taking it from further back so that I can adjust the horizon downward and include the trees at the right. I might even be able to use my 17TSE if I were further back. That would allow me to keep a level camera and use the shift function to change the centering. I hate leaning trees.

Anyway, this is more for concept. What do you think?




dramatized and cropped 14mm shot

  Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III    1/80s    100 ISO    -0.7 EV  






17mm version taken later

  Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III    TS-E17mm f/4L lens    17mm    f/8.0    1/20s    100 ISO    +0.7 EV  



Edited on Sep 02, 2012 at 01:26 AM · View previous versions



Sep 01, 2012 at 03:20 PM
Bob Jarman
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p.1 #2 · Like your opinion on a concept.


My 2 - the concept works however in #1 I find the treeline and far shore way too intense, throwing the image out-of-balance. In #2, again my opinion, the reflection is unnaturally bright and strong, foreground unnaturally bright vis--vis the clouds and overcast sky - assuming this is a composite, perhaps dial down the opacity for a more realistic view. But maybe I missed the point entirely. (Not the first time!) I find the top half of #2 quite nice.

Regards,

Bob



Sep 01, 2012 at 03:30 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #3 · Like your opinion on a concept.


I think you probably have many more options available to you. It almost feels like you are trying to force a square peg into a round hole with this one. I'm not saying it isn't worthy of your efforts ... it just sounds like you want it to be something other than it is. Your time might be better spent with a something different, rather than a repeat.

I'm not sure that farther back is going to make the kind of change that'll be significantly different (lighting dependent). Do you have alternate perspectives, or maybe a portrait oriented composition.



Sep 01, 2012 at 03:37 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #4 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Thanks Bob. The first is indeed a 3 shot composite. But the second is a single image. I did use a 2 stop ND grad however. The second shot has pretty minimal Post processing. In fact it was processed per this workflow.

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=113

The 14 mm does not accept filters so I was obliged to blend per this workflow.

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=144

To which I applied Topaz Bold sky per this

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=347

But the core question is if the scene itself is worth a 75 mile drive?





Sep 01, 2012 at 03:42 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #5 · Like your opinion on a concept.


RustyBug wrote:
I think you probably have many more options available to you. It almost feels like you are trying to force a square peg into a round hole with this one. I'm not saying it isn't worthy of your efforts ... it just sounds like you want it to be something other than it is. Your time might be better spent with a something different, rather than a repeat.

I'm not sure that farther back is going to make the kind of change that'll be significantly different (lighting dependent). Do you have alternate perspectives, or maybe a portrait oriented composition.


Thanks Rusty.

I can step back a bit but not too far as the trail that takes you here would show up. This screams landscape to me as the mountain and pond are wider than high. Not very many landscapes work vertical to my eyes.

The question here is the scene. As you well know getting a dramatic sky with a still reflection is just a matter of how many times you are willing to make the drive. So the question is if it will be worth it even with the drama? I am asking for the replyer to visualize this with red/orange clouds and color on the mountain and in a perfectly still reflection.

And of course the secondary question about composition. I have absolutely no problem with centered images, but I realize I am in a minority.



Sep 01, 2012 at 03:49 PM
Bob Jarman
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p.1 #6 · Like your opinion on a concept.


ben egbert wrote:
Thanks Bob. The first is indeed a 3 shot composite. But the second is a single image. I did use a 2 stop ND grad however. The second shot has pretty minimal Post processing. In fact it was processed per this workflow.

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=113

The 14 mm does not accept filters so I was obliged to blend per this workflow.

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=144

To which I applied Topaz Bold sky per this

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=347

But the core question is if the scene itself is worth a 75 mile drive?



Ben,

Given the price of gas, not worth the trip (to me) unless you have a special purpose or attachment to the scene. I imagine the scene is quite common for that part of the country....not a show-stopper, IMO. And then what are the odds of all necessary components coming together concurrent with your presence?

Regards,

Bob




Sep 01, 2012 at 04:02 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #7 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Thanks Bob. I suppose the price of gas does enter into it. To improve on this requires a trip to the Tetons or Colorado, both around 300 miles.

This is a place I can drive to in an afternoon and have the advantage of choosing weather. For the other two, I am stuck with whatever clouds sunsets I am given for a particular once a year trip. Not to mention, The Tetons are constantly smokey these days with controlled burns.

But if it is not really good enough, that probably settles it. I am doing Colorado later this month, first time for me. I have decided to skip the Tetons until they finish the prescribed burns.




Sep 01, 2012 at 05:09 PM
sadja
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p.1 #8 · Like your opinion on a concept.


I think I like the undramatized version. I would be working to bring out the layers of stands of trees on the R.

Is this worth 150 miles of gas? Your call. Doesn't look like it will brighten up with fall colors, so your main hope is a dramatic sky and great reflection. And despite your aversion, I think the most interesting comp might be a crop of just the central secton of the mountain shot vertically to catch the sky, mt & reflection.



Sep 01, 2012 at 05:20 PM
 

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ben egbert
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p.1 #9 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Hi Sadja, you could be right for web viewing, but I would probably never print it that way.

The dramatized version was mostly to give it enough kick to help visualize a more dramatic lighting. You probably saw what is possible when I showed last years version.

I could easily crop vertical. At 21mpixles, I have a lot to waste for web size images. I might try that and post it in this thread. Would you go for rule of thirds? What would I use as center line, the horizon between sky/mountain or the reflection split?

I never know what people want to call a horizon in such cases.

Here is a fast cut at a vertical comp. As suspected, I cropped and still had pixels to spare for a 600 high web post.

I did this as a 4x5 because I don't like narrow portraite images. Could not decide what to include here as it cuts off just about all the elements I like.




  Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III    1/80s    100 ISO    -0.7 EV  




Sep 01, 2012 at 05:26 PM
sadja
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p.1 #10 · Like your opinion on a concept.


This is the crop I had in mind:







Sep 01, 2012 at 07:09 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #11 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Ok, thanks, and it seems you wanted to move the reflection split off center for this one. This is probably a 50mm shot. I could easily do that next trip.


Sep 01, 2012 at 08:39 PM
Charlie Shugart
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p.1 #12 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Ben, If I'm off beam, I apologize.
(IMO): What I glean from your words is that you're basically not really happy with your images of this place and wonder if you should abandon the location.
I think the location is very good, and your captures are, also. I'd imagine there would be many good possibilities nearby.
To me, a bit of judicious pp would make a great deal of difference.
Here's your second image, and my 10-minute edit; (downsized so no scrolling is needed).
This is just one possibility.
Please PM me if you'd like me to pull them- no problem.
Charlie












Sep 01, 2012 at 10:11 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #13 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Hi Charlie. Thanks for the redo, looks good. No reason to pull it at all. That's what this forum is all about. Yours is somewhat cooler darker and has more contrast. Easy enough to get in post. Might even have a shot closer to that in raw.

I have to ask if my scene selections are good, I never know myself. I mean they are ok for me obviously, but I have such weird ideas about composition that I have to ask afterward. And if I had a bunch of folks with me to ask at the time, I might not even take what they suggest.



Sep 02, 2012 at 12:10 AM
Charlie Shugart
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p.1 #14 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Ben, Two thoughts come to mind:
Perspective: where you place the camera.
Composition: what you include in the photograph.
When I was first deciding the kind of compositions I preferred, I'd find a scene that I liked (and had time to explore it), I'd pick a place where I liked the view (perspective). Then I'd shoot a variety of compositions from that place, i.e. zoom in, zoom out, aim down, aim higher, etc.
Then I'd move to another place and repeat the procedure.
When I had spent enough time there, I'd pack up and drive somewhere else entirely.
At home, I spent a lot of time deciding what perspectives and compositions I liked and what I didn't like.
After a while, I learned the kinds of perspectives and compositions I preferred, and concentrated on them.
Note: I paid some attention to photographs taken by others, but never tried to emulate any of them. Just quick looks and decided what I liked and why, and what I didn't like- and why.
In the era of digital cameras, the whole process should be much faster.

Ben- I've seen a couple dozen of your posted images, and I'm not sure what you think it is that you do weirdly. These two shots, for example, are not at all weird to me. Whether I would have chosen them if I were there- well- I don't know. But that doesn't matter. Take a big variety of shots, decide which you like the best, and process them the way you want.
Feedback on cropping and processing can be helpful, but I'm not so sure about composition suggestions- unless the other person is with you at the time you take the pictures.
Anyhow- just a friendly $.02 worth .
Charlie



Sep 02, 2012 at 01:50 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #15 · Like your opinion on a concept.


Hi Charlie. I shoot with primes, so zooming is not an option other than with my feet or via a lens change. I am planning on getting a 24-70 soon, but that's no help below 24mm.

I also dislike leaning stuff so I try to keep my camera pretty level. But I can shift two of my lenses.

I do a lot of centered images because this is how I see the world in person and how my leveled camera sees the world most times. That's the part that is weird.

But I live in a dual world. One for myself, and one for web. I almost always shoot for myself because the goal is to get something to print. But that is pretty rare, so the rest are more for web.

The truth is, I can shoot at 17mm and crop to a 50mm perspective and not lose any pixels for web. I don't even need to shoot in that god forsaken vertical mode to do that.



Sep 02, 2012 at 02:29 AM





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