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Archive 2012 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?
  
 
surf monkey
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p.1 #1 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


I recently purchased a Cokin Z-Pro holder and a couple of filters.
The factory setup is for two filters, which is fine, since I plan to use a GND and ND filter.
With this setup on a Canon 5D2 + 17-40mm lens I get vignetting around 20mm when straight and 23mm when the filters are tilted.

My questions:
1) Is this amount of vignetting normal, or have I set it up incorrectly?
2) Is there a better way to set it up?
3) Does the Lee system vignette less? The Cokin system doesn't have wide angle adapter. I'm assuming that the Lee wide-angle adapters are better.
4) At what point does the Lee system vignette?

If this has been discussed before, please direct me to that thread.
Thanks in advance.



Aug 30, 2012 at 11:30 PM
sjms
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p.1 #2 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


1- yes in a cokin system filter its limit is approx 20mm FF. it is even stated by them or used to be.
2- yes there is but it requires some mod and the introduces its own et of limtations
3- yes with a WA adapter ring you should at minimum be able to reach 17mm FF depending on the actual lens
4- depending on the lens maker/model approx 17mm and to an extent 16mm.




Aug 30, 2012 at 11:57 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #3 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


sjms wrote:
3- yes with a WA adapter ring you should at minimum be able to reach 17mm FF depending on the actual lens


In regards to the Lee system working at 17mm without vignetting - is this just because of the WA adapter or does the Lee system have less space between filters?



Aug 31, 2012 at 12:01 AM
dsjtecserv
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p.1 #4 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


Hmm, I thought the Cokin Z-Pro came configured with all three slots on the outside -- one thick one and two thin ones -- at least I'm sure that's how mine came. When that's the case, I think your report of vignetting sounds about right. If it really is set up with only two thin slots on the outboard side of the holder, then something doesn't add up. That is currently how I have mine configured, and (with a 5DII and 17-40) it does not vignette when the holder is square with the camera frame. When the holder is rotated to 45 degrees, I get vignetting in the corners that is gone by about 19 mm.

You have probably realized that it isn't the holder frame itself that hits the corners, but rather the stack of filter holder slots. The more slots you have stacked, the greater the likelihood of vignetting. The actual geometry of this depends on details of the lens design and doesn't correlate directly to focal length alone. I've found the 17-40 to be slightly more prone to this than was my 10-22 on a crop, at equivalent focal lengths.

There are two things you can do: take off filter holder slots until they no longer vignette (or the degree of vignetting at wider focal lengths is something you can live with); or mount the adapter ring in the first (thin) slot on the OUTSIDE of the holder frame, so that everything is set back by a distance equal to the thickness of the frame. The latter approach is fiddly and a pain, but some people use it successfully (after they get used to it).

Dave



Aug 31, 2012 at 12:08 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #5 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


Another question:
Will a Lee WA adapter work on the Cokin Z-Pro holder?



Aug 31, 2012 at 12:09 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #6 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


dsjtecserv wrote:
There are two things you can do: take off filter holder slots until they no longer vignette (or the degree of vignetting at wider focal lengths is something you can live with); or mount the adapter ring in the first (thin) slot on the OUTSIDE of the holder frame, so that everything is set back by a distance equal to the thickness of the frame. The latter approach is fiddly and a pain, but some people use it successfully (after they get used to it).

Dave


I just tried the OUTSIDE of the holder frame solution and that seems to solve the issue for two filters. No vignette even at 17mm and turned.
This setup does make it more difficult to change lenses and the put the holder on it. I know some users like to have an adapter on each of their lenses for easy changes. In this configuration you have to disassemble the entire holder to change the adapter.

Thanks for the tip. I'll probably use this setup until I can find an available Lee holder.



Aug 31, 2012 at 12:18 AM
dsjtecserv
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p.1 #7 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


I rechecked the Cokin site -- they still indicate that the standard configuration is with a large (4 mm) slot, using a spacer, and two standard (2 mm) slots. So unless you are using the Cokin sprocket polarizer, you should be able to remove one slot and the spacer (mount them to the inboard side for storage) and be good down to 17 mm (except when the holder is rotated), using the ring in its standard place.

As I noted, the 17-40 seems to be more prone than other lenses to vignetting, so you might want to ask for empirical verification from someone with this specific configuration before investing in a different holder.

Dave



Aug 31, 2012 at 12:58 AM
sjms
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p.1 #8 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


surf monkey wrote:
Another question:
Will a Lee WA adapter work on the Cokin Z-Pro holder?


No



Aug 31, 2012 at 01:26 AM
 

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sjms
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p.1 #9 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


surf monkey wrote:
In regards to the Lee system working at 17mm without vignetting - is this just because of the WA adapter or does the Lee system have less space between filters?


it is due o the overall design. but the SWA adapter does put the final kiss on it by allowing the entire holder assy to be 4mm closer to the front element of the lens. and that makes a big difference. now you will also may need to reduce the amount of slots to 2. i generally use only 1 myself at ant given time. mostly ND filters.



Aug 31, 2012 at 01:29 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #10 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


dsjtecserv wrote:
I rechecked the Cokin site -- they still indicate that the standard configuration is with a large (4 mm) slot, using a spacer, and two standard (2 mm) slots. So unless you are using the Cokin sprocket polarizer, you should be able to remove one slot and the spacer (mount them to the inboard side for storage) and be good down to 17 mm (except when the holder is rotated), using the ring in its standard place.

As I noted, the 17-40 seems to be more prone than other lenses to vignetting, so you might want to ask for empirical
...Show more

I tried it with the standard configuration as you mentioned. It vignettes a bit in the vertical position at 17mm.
This is disappointing, since I was under the impression that it wouldn't.
For now, I'll be using the "alt" configuration as you mentioned before with the adapter "outside" the holder. That seems to work.



Aug 31, 2012 at 01:37 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #11 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


sjms wrote:
3- yes with a WA adapter ring you should at minimum be able to reach 17mm FF depending on the actual lens

surf monkey wrote:
In regards to the Lee system working at 17mm without vignetting - is this just because of the WA adapter or does the Lee system have less space between filters?

sjms wrote:
it is due o the overall design. but the SWA adapter does put the final kiss on it by allowing the entire holder assy to be 4mm closer to the front element of the lens. and that makes a big difference. now you will also may need to reduce the amount of slots to 2. i generally use only 1 myself at ant given time. mostly ND filters.

So, you have no issue with a Canon full frame + 17-40 at 17mm with 2 slots and rotated holder?

Hopefully I'll be able to get the Lee holder soon to try out. 2 slots minimum for me. I want to use a GND and ND filter together.



Aug 31, 2012 at 01:40 AM
sjms
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p.1 #12 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


at one point in the 360 deg rotation i remember there was a slight few degrees of light vignette in one corner. i truely don't remember if itwas this lens or the 16-35 which i also owned. i believe it was upper left. not an issue when using PS6 or DxO


Aug 31, 2012 at 02:28 AM
Bearmann
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p.1 #13 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


That's surprising. The Z-Pro system doesn't sound like much of an improvement over the P-mount system.


Aug 31, 2012 at 06:47 PM
pompeio
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p.1 #14 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


Just an FYI that I purchased a Lee Foundation Kit FK Filter Holder from The Filter Connection yesterday afternoon. I gave them a call even though their website said the holder was on back order. They said they had them (one less now) but had yet to update the website. You might want to give them a call.


Sep 01, 2012 at 01:19 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #15 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


pompeio wrote:
Just an FYI that I purchased a Lee Foundation Kit FK Filter Holder from The Filter Connection yesterday afternoon. I gave them a call even though their website said the holder was on back order. They said they had them (one less now) but had yet to update the website. You might want to give them a call.


Thanks for the heads up.
I ordered a Lee filter holder, 77mm & 82mm WA adapter and the Lee Bigstopper. Not sure yet if they are really sending them to me or if they are on back order. I'll find out if they shipped on Tuesday.

So, I'll be able to my own side-by-side comparison of the Lee and Cokin Z-Pro systems.
If they actually have the Bigstopper, I'll also do a comparison with the Hitech Pro 10-stop ND.



Sep 02, 2012 at 03:21 AM
jerbear00
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p.1 #16 · Lee/Cokin filter system vignetting?


surf monkey wrote:
Thanks for the heads up.
I ordered a Lee filter holder, 77mm & 82mm WA adapter and the Lee Bigstopper. Not sure yet if they are really sending them to me or if they are on back order. I'll find out if they shipped on Tuesday.

So, I'll be able to my own side-by-side comparison of the Lee and Cokin Z-Pro systems.
If they actually have the Bigstopper, I'll also do a comparison with the Hitech Pro 10-stop ND.



Good luck. That would be awesome if they have them in stock I had to wait several months to get my set and actually picked up several components used. Still waiting on 1 filter I ordered 3 months ago.



Sep 05, 2012 at 05:45 PM





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