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Archive 2012 · How noisy is your 7D?
  
 
Liquidstone
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · How noisy is your 7D?


TeamSpeed wrote:
How about a really low light shot at 12800 that was shot to the right 1 full stop? Again no post processing, but the JPG is very easy to work on.

http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/7D-Full-ISO-JPG-Suite-OOC/i-rjTPQT9/0/O/7dcropsample.jpg

Final result after processing...
http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/7D-Full-ISO-JPG-Suite-OOC/i-RjWcqcm/0/X2/IMG6599-X2.jpg



Your ultra high ISO images never fail to amaze me, TS.

(Note to self - next birding trip, shoot many ISO 6400 - 12,800 shots for PP experiment later. )



Aug 29, 2012 at 03:16 AM
time2clmb
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · How noisy is your 7D?


Wow..I have not tried shooting above 3200, although I have had some good results at that ISO. I've been too afraid of the dreaded noise. Just tried a test shot using 6400 with exposing to the right and i'm pleasantly suprised. I think i'm going to activate the 12800 option and play with it a bit.

Yup..now i'm absolutely conviced the 7d nay sayers simply don't know how to use the tool.

Question for some of you here that are getting great results. In your opinion, while shooting with the higher ISO's, is it better to still use RAW and work the RAW files or to use JPEG with NR turned up?



Aug 29, 2012 at 03:56 AM
time2clmb
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · How noisy is your 7D?


...or for that matter turing the NR up while shooting RAW. Everything I have seen so far is to keep the NR down on standard or low, although I see in the above example it is set on strong.


Aug 29, 2012 at 03:59 AM
digitalbug30d
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · How noisy is your 7D?


wait I will go poke my brothers and see if it says ouch...Cmon that was funny


Aug 29, 2012 at 04:15 AM
msalvetti
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · How noisy is your 7D?


time2clmb wrote:
...or for that matter turing the NR up while shooting RAW. Everything I have seen so far is to keep the NR down on standard or low, although I see in the above example it is set on strong.


For me I get better results with Standard NR, Neutral picture style, jpg's, followed by a pass through Neat Image.

I realize I should be able to shoot RAW and reproduce the in-camera NR, but I use ACR. I just can't get RAW files to look as good as my jpg's. I see that as a sign that my RAW processing skills are not good enough, or I'm not spending enough time on it.

If you shoot action, you don't want NR set to strong as it kills the buffer, even when just shooting jpg.

Mark



Aug 29, 2012 at 04:28 AM
Liquidstone
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · How noisy is your 7D?


time2clmb wrote:
Question for some of you here that are getting great results. In your opinion, while shooting with the higher ISO's, is it better to still use RAW and work the RAW files or to use JPEG with NR turned up?


Personally, I prefer to shoot RAW at any ISO.

While Jpeg + NR at high ISO might yield conveniently cleaner files right away, the in-camera NR might also kill some detail and these will be gone forever with jpegs. I'd like to decide for myself which should be filtered and which should be retained by shooting RAW.

If you're not confident yet that your PP skills will produce a less noisy file from RAW than OOC jpegs, you should then shoot RAW + jpeg. CF cards and HDDs are cheap. You can always return to the RAW later to reprocess once your PP skills are up to the task.




Aug 29, 2012 at 04:52 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
If you're not confident yet that your PP skills will produce a less noisy file from RAW than OOC jpegs, you should then shoot RAW + jpeg. CF cards and HDDs are cheap. You can always return to the RAW later to reprocess once your PP skills are up to the task.



That's a good idea as you have the jpg you are happy with as a reference image and can practice your RAW skills and see if you can match or ideally better it.



Aug 29, 2012 at 06:37 AM
Andrew J
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · How noisy is your 7D?


If you're not confident yet that your PP skills will produce a less noisy file from RAW than OOC jpegs, you should then shoot RAW + jpeg.
------------------------------------------------------
Since every 7D Raw file has a full size jpeg in it, everyone is already doing this. http://instant-jpeg-from-raw.software.informer.com/



Aug 29, 2012 at 10:45 AM
Liquidstone
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · How noisy is your 7D?


Andrew J wrote:
If you're not confident yet that your PP skills will produce a less noisy file from RAW than OOC jpegs, you should then shoot RAW + jpeg.
------------------------------------------------------
Since every 7D Raw file has a full size jpeg in it, everyone is already doing this. http://instant-jpeg-from-raw.software.informer.com/



Can you confirm that the size of jpeg embedded in each RAW file is full 18 MP (5184x3456 pixels)?



Aug 29, 2012 at 11:41 AM
Andrew J
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · How noisy is your 7D?


it is


Aug 29, 2012 at 11:48 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Liquidstone
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · How noisy is your 7D?


Andrew J wrote:
it is


Thanks. Any idea how compressed is the RAW-embedded jpeg compared to the usual highest quality jpeg OOC?



Aug 29, 2012 at 11:57 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
Can you confirm that the size of jpeg embedded in each RAW file is full 18 MP (5184x3456 pixels)?
as Andrew says it is
I use instant jpeg from raw alot . its a very good fast little utility.
however compression is higher on the embedded jpeg . (not that I ever see a difference)
I just did a test shot on my 7D . shot RAW+ Jpeg (large fine)
.CR2 = 34.3mb
Stripped Jpeg = 2.76mb
Jpeg created at time of shot =7.76mb

all 3 have the same amount of pixels 5184x3456



Aug 29, 2012 at 11:59 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · How noisy is your 7D?


OK I just did another quick test. This time I Shot Raw+Jpeg with the jpeg set to the lower of the Larg settings

Raw = 24.63mb
Embedded Jpeg = 2.488mb
Recorded Jpeg 3.689mb

so there is more compression going on than the lower of the 2 quality options available Jpeg options

Edited on Aug 29, 2012 at 12:08 PM · View previous versions



Aug 29, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Liquidstone
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · How noisy is your 7D?


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
as Andrew says it is
I use instant jpeg from raw alot . its a very good fast little utility.
however compression is higher on the embedded jpeg . (not that I ever see a difference)
I just did a test shot on my 7D . shot RAW+ Jpeg (large fine)
.CR2 = 34.3mb
Stripped Jpeg = 2.76mb

Jpeg created at time of shot =7.76mb

all 3 have the same amount of pixels 5184x3456


Thanks, Ian. Looks like embedded jpeg is useful when one doesn't need to make PP adjustments aggressively. Otherwise, the OOC jpegs have more info.



Aug 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · How noisy is your 7D?


yeah I find i use the embedded jpeg in my Ipad(3) . no real noticable difference.
the good thing now with my 7D is the FW2.0 has opened up the ability to shoot RAW+Jpeg again and not suffer such a tiny buffer constraint. so I may go back to shooting the dual format .

By the way I think all the canon bodies that have had the High res screen have the Full size Jpeg Embedded .

Ive not checked back on my old raw files from my old bodies . I will have a look later.



Aug 29, 2012 at 12:11 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · How noisy is your 7D?


time2clmb wrote:
Wow..I have not tried shooting above 3200, although I have had some good results at that ISO. I've been too afraid of the dreaded noise. Just tried a test shot using 6400 with exposing to the right and i'm pleasantly suprised. I think i'm going to activate the 12800 option and play with it a bit.

Yup..now i'm absolutely conviced the 7d nay sayers simply don't know how to use the tool.


I think everyone should try doing a full ISO sweep on a controlled shoot where they push exposure 1/3 or 2/3 to the right in raw, using DPP as their basis first.

Then take those raws into any 3rd party tool and do a comparison of how it looks, and then post process accordingly. This will give them a good basis to form their "maximum ISO" they would use.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the ones not happy don't know how to use the tool, there are so many factors that go into "acceptable results", from what the requirements are of the recipients of the photos, to tools, to shooting parameters, bad 7Ds or variation from body to body, etc.



Aug 29, 2012 at 02:03 PM
pKai
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · How noisy is your 7D?


More ISO 3200. Went and shot these this morning deliberately for this..... Processed in LR4.

P.S. In case you're wondering, that's my sidewalk he's swimming around in (on?)..... I live in the currently-flooded area of western Palm Beach County, FL. Thanks Isaac!!

Image 1:

Crop: 20% (80% remains)
Contast +7
Highlights -36
Clarity +26
Sharpening 35
Radius 1.3
Detail 81
Luminance NR 76
Derail NR 64
Color NR 24
Defringe 9


Image 2:

Crop: 40% (60% remains)
Shadows +52
Clarity +50
Saturation +24
Yellow Saturation -27
Sharpening 35
Radius 1.0
Detail 25
Luminance NR 40
Detail 75
Color NR 25
Detail 50
Defringe 9






  Canon EOS 7D    EF400mm f/5.6L USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/2000s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    EF400mm f/5.6L USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/2000s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  




Aug 29, 2012 at 07:29 PM
Conrad Tan
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
Looks to me that way too. I'd be curious to see Conrad's unedited 100% crop with more moderate NR/sharpening settings from ACR or DPP.






That 100% crop is unedited. No NR yet applied. Only at the final image before resizing for web.

PM me your emails if you want the original RAW files. I'd be happy to share em!



Aug 29, 2012 at 09:25 PM
uz2work
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · How noisy is your 7D?


Conrad Tan wrote:

That 100% crop is unedited. No NR yet applied. Only at the final image before resizing for web.

PM me your emails if you want the original RAW files. I'd be happy to share em!


I'm not sure I know what an "unedited" raw file is. For the raw converter to display a picture, it has to give some interpretation of what it thinks the picture should look like, whether it is DPP reading the Canon picture style tags or some other interpretation by another raw converter. And each of those interpretations starts out with some default settings/adjustments for sharpness, noise reduction, contrast, etc. To me, an unedited raw file would just be a bunch of data that looks like jibberish.




Edited on Aug 29, 2012 at 10:12 PM · View previous versions



Aug 29, 2012 at 10:11 PM
Liquidstone
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · How noisy is your 7D?


Conrad Tan wrote:

That 100% crop is unedited. No NR yet applied. Only at the final image before resizing for web.

PM me your emails if you want the original RAW files. I'd be happy to share em!


This can be an interesting RAW conversion experiment, Conrad.

My email might not be able to handle the file size though. Perhaps you can upload the RAW to www.yousendit.com then PM interested posters (like me) the link for downloading? I understand one can upload to yousendit even without membership.



Aug 29, 2012 at 10:12 PM
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