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Archive 2012 · How noisy is your 7D?
  
 
Jeff Nolten
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p.27 #1 · p.27 #1 · How noisy is your 7D?


aladyforty wrote:
your probably right to a degree, I will work it out. Pity I cant afford 5DIII, it would solve all my issues


I was about to say that while the 5D3 is better at what the 7D does than the 5D2, its still a tradeoff. Then I read Romy's post.

Liquidstone wrote:
I use both the 7D and 5D3 and if forced to bring only one body to shoot birds and landscape, I'll opt for the 7D.


A voice of experience that shouldn't be dismissed.



Aug 03, 2013 at 03:38 PM
aladyforty
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p.27 #2 · p.27 #2 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
I use both the 7D and 5D3 and if forced to bring only one body to shoot birds and landscape, I'll opt for the 7D.



I'm surprised you say that, I thought 5DIII could be used for everything as well as the 7D does, equal at birds and better at everything else. My other choice is to go with my 1DIII



Aug 04, 2013 at 12:05 AM
Liquidstone
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p.27 #3 · p.27 #3 · How noisy is your 7D?


aladyforty wrote:
I'm surprised you say that, I thought 5DIII could be used for everything as well as the 7D does, equal at birds and better at everything else. My other choice is to go with my 1DIII


Yes, the 5D3 can be used for everything, but there are bodies better than it at some things.

The 5D3's strong points for me are its 6 fps, great AF (down to f/8), excellent IQ and small size (compared to 1D series).

The other advantage of the 5D3 not often mentioned is compositional flexibility in post processing. I can place the bird in the central portion of the frame and have the option to present the image in landscape or portrait (with still enough res left to print large), depending on the requirement of the end-user. These advantages make the 5D3 a good complement to my 7D and 1D4, at the subjects I shoot (mainly birds, surfing and macros).


That said, if I were forced to use only one body at birding and landscape, I'd opt for the 7D because of pixel density, 8 fps, many AF points, small size and the UI. Reach is king at birding. At landscapes (whose elements often don't take to the air) I can use a tripod and shoot at low ISOs. I can likewise stitch if my Aps-C FOV isn't wide enough.




Aug 04, 2013 at 12:29 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.27 #4 · p.27 #4 · How noisy is your 7D?


I briefly Googled Lord Howe Island and it looks like your primary bird interest will be sea birds. In my experience nesting sea birds are much more approachable (and larger) than passerines up in the forests. Two years ago I visited Tikehau atoll in French Polynesia. Because of weight restrictions I took only my 5D2, 24-105, and 100-400. I was able to get full frame portraits of the fairy and noddy terns and boobies (gannets) and even some decent gannets in flight. And some Munia in a nearby palm. The 5D2 handled these well although being obviously reach and frame rate limited compared to a 7D.

If I were going to Lord Howe Island, I would opt for the 5D since the beautiful island scenery and people would be more of my emphasis. I'll add that whenever I go somewhere tropical, I'll take a P&S (G10 for Tikehau) and underwater housing. I also took 20 mm of extension for the 100-400 that allowed me to get some very close portraits of the abundant hermit crabs and other small island life. Combining the underwater images, sea birds, sunset, beach, island jungle, and family pictures I brought home a pretty complete set of memories.

Let me quickly add that I think you'll do fine if you opt for the 7D. I'm very happy with both my G1X and my wife's SL1 for general photography and which IMHO have sensors that are no better or worse than the 7D's. I would now take my G1X and its underwater housing as my 2nd camera and be happy using it when the 5D3 has a long lens mounted.

From your profile the only landscape ranged lens you have for crop is the 17-40 which is a fine lens if stopped down to f8 or more. If your profile accurately reflects your lens lineup, I would choose the 5D2 + 24-70 over the 7D + 17-40 for the bulk of my vacation imagery.

I hope this analysis is useful to folks going on such an adventure. I might choose differently if I were going to the Serengeti or the Amazon. We have too many choices but none of them are really wrong. Cheers.






Aug 04, 2013 at 05:51 PM
brimull
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p.27 #5 · p.27 #5 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
Yes, the 5D3 can be used for everything, but there are bodies better than it at some things.

The 5D3's strong points for me are its 6 fps, great AF (down to f/8), excellent IQ and small size (compared to 1D series).

The other advantage of the 5D3 not often mentioned is compositional flexibility in post processing. I can place the bird in the central portion of the frame and have the option to present the image in landscape or portrait (with still enough res left to print large), depending on the requirement of the end-user. These advantages make the
...Show more

Yes. For Canon DSLR wildlife photographers, when you need the utmost in "reach" then "reach" for the 7D.



Aug 04, 2013 at 11:56 PM
BrianO
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p.27 #6 · p.27 #6 · How noisy is your 7D?


This thread is reminding me of an old adage among watchmakers: A man with a watch always knows what time it is. A man with more than one is never sure.

I think we could say: A man with one camera always has the only one suitable for the job. A man with more than one is never sure.



Aug 05, 2013 at 12:18 AM
Imagemaster
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p.27 #7 · p.27 #7 · How noisy is your 7D?


aladyforty wrote:
I'm surprised you say that, I thought 5DIII could be used for everything as well as the 7D does, equal at birds and better at everything else. My other choice is to go with my 1DIII


IMO, the 5D3 when cropped did not equal an uncropped 7D image.

7D with 400 DO plus 1.4x TC:





  Canon EOS 7D    EF400mm f/4 DO IS USM +1.4x lens    560mm    f/5.6    1/1250s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Aug 05, 2013 at 12:23 AM
brimull
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p.27 #8 · p.27 #8 · How noisy is your 7D?


Imagemaster wrote:
IMO, the 5D3 when cropped did not equal an uncropped 7D image.

7D with 400 DO plus 1.4x TC:


When conditions are roughly equal, that's been my experience, also.



Aug 05, 2013 at 12:43 AM
aladyforty
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p.27 #9 · p.27 #9 · How noisy is your 7D?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I briefly Googled Lord Howe Island and it looks like your primary bird interest will be sea birds. In my experience nesting sea birds are much more approachable (and larger) than passerines up in the forests. Two years ago I visited Tikehau atoll in French Polynesia. Because of weight restrictions I took only my 5D2, 24-105, and 100-400. I was able to get full frame portraits of the fairy and noddy terns and boobies (gannets) and even some decent gannets in flight. And some Munia in a nearby palm. The 5D2 handled these well although being obviously reach and
...Show more

thanks for the insight. I am also visiting Sydney and the blue mountains so have to consider those landscapes as well. I have a Fuji X100 and a Fuji x10 that I may squeeze in too. Leaning towards the full frame because no matter how much I try the images from 5DII in 95% of my shots look way better than the 7D shots



Aug 05, 2013 at 04:30 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.27 #10 · p.27 #10 · How noisy is your 7D?


On a 7D vs 5D3 review I did elsewhere, here is one of the few tests I ran during that review. I used my Sigma 50-500 on both my 5D3 and 7D. If I crop the 5D3 down to the same view as the 7D, then resize it back up to match the resolution of the 7D, the 7D wins hands down due to pixel density.

If I used a 1.4TC on the 5D3 to level the reach playing field, the results were much closer, but then again, I am losing a stop of light that I have to make sure I can work around, either at higher ISOs, or there is already enough latitude with the shutter speed.





Regarding noise at the raw level between these two, the 5D3 at 6400 seems to have roughly a 1.5 stop improvement over the 7D, and with the added detail it pulls, it adds a noise-reduction 1/3 stop improvement for something close to 1 2/3 overall, IMO.




Aug 06, 2013 at 02:44 PM
 

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dgdg
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p.27 #11 · p.27 #11 · How noisy is your 7D?


I think this informal test confirms what we know. If you are not needing to crop the image much, the full frame will look better.


Aug 06, 2013 at 02:51 PM
Gochugogi
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p.27 #12 · p.27 #12 · How noisy is your 7D?


BrianO wrote:
This thread is reminding me of an old adage among watchmakers: A man with a watch always knows what time it is. A man with more than one is never sure.

I think we could say: A man with one camera always has the only one suitable for the job. A man with more than one is never sure.


Or he is sure he can get the job done since he is covered when one camera goes south.



Aug 06, 2013 at 04:04 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.27 #13 · p.27 #13 · How noisy is your 7D?


My informal comparison of the 5D3 + 1.4 x vs 7D agrees with what TeamSpeed found, the images are essentially equivalent, especially after they have been worked up in Lightroom. A 1.4x is not a magic bullet because the 5D3 + 1.4x weighs 3/4 lb more than the 7D, loses a stop of light, and is limited to the center focus point. Even without the extender, the 5D3 with 100-400 only has a center cloud of cross type focal points compared to the 7D's full complement of cross points. However, when the test subject was shaded in dark foliage, the 7D tended to under expose and I had to adjust the bias a stop to compensate or equalize to what the 5D3 AE wanted to do. I was running the 5D3 an ISO stop higher but may have done the equivalent with the 7D's exposure bias. When shooting sunlit subjects like TeamSpeed's bird above no exposure bias was necessary. Same evaluative metering settings.

I think few would argue that the 7D isn't a great 1.6x extender (1.44x compared to the 5D3) and the best AF system you can get for around $1000. And few would argue that FF wouldn't do better when not reach limited. Everyone should have the freedom to pick their own poison.



Aug 06, 2013 at 04:26 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.27 #14 · p.27 #14 · How noisy is your 7D?


aladyforty wrote:
Leaning towards the full frame because no matter how much I try the images from 5DII in 95% of my shots look way better than the 7D shots


That is my bias as well. Working up my Nepal images, I have many images of backlit dark skinned people, very hazy mountainscapes, and very dark interiors; very dark wood pagodas against very bright skies. I had to really push the basic sliders in lightroom to bring the photos up to my satisfaction. My 5Ds have always been relatively forgiving of this treatment where the 7D images would frequently fall apart.

Even ISO 3200 images on the 5D3 never needed a luminance NR setting more than 25 where many 7D images at ISO 800 often take a setting of 40. Partly this is because 5D#s require less sharpening to achieve good definition. 5D3 images at ISO 100 would sometimes require NR in the low teens to clean up a really pushed image. When traveling and I never know what light I'll have to contend with, I'll stick with FF to give myself every advantage even if it means sacrificing reach or frame rate.



Aug 06, 2013 at 05:19 PM
aladyforty
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p.27 #15 · p.27 #15 · How noisy is your 7D?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
My informal comparison of the 5D3 + 1.4 x vs 7D agrees with what TeamSpeed found, the images are essentially equivalent, especially after they have been worked up in Lightroom. A 1.4x is not a magic bullet because the 5D3 + 1.4x weighs 3/4 lb more than the 7D, loses a stop of light, and is limited to the center focus point. Even without the extender, the 5D3 with 100-400 only has a center cloud of cross type focal points compared to the 7D's full complement of cross points. However, when the test subject was shaded in dark foliage,
...Show more


I find 7D is terrific for everything....Except certain landscapes, I took both the cameras out on a dull rainy day and took some landscapes as the sun was going down, there was just enough light to make a nice photo but while 5DII seemed to cope with the post processing the 7D looked terrible in the areas where there had been dark foggy like spots and I really had to throw the photos away. A photo taken in good light with the 7D is fine as is a long exposure on tripod. There are some subjects I prefer to use 7D with over the 5DII...sometimes that reach is very useful. I am watching with interest for the release of 7DII, basically I'm spoiled and want a 5DIII with the reach



Aug 07, 2013 at 10:50 PM
jcolwell
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p.27 #16 · p.27 #16 · How noisy is your 7D?


How noisy is my 7D?

I sold it over two years ago, and I can still hear it!



Aug 07, 2013 at 11:52 PM
aladyforty
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p.27 #17 · p.27 #17 · How noisy is your 7D?


jcolwell wrote:
How noisy is my 7D?

I sold it over two years ago, and I can still hear it!



well it does some sort of processing to get the best out of it and some people are just not up for that



Aug 08, 2013 at 12:01 AM
sritri
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p.27 #18 · p.27 #18 · How noisy is your 7D?


For me the problem is inconsistency. It behaves as it pleases






Canon EOS 7D EF500mm f/4L IS USM 1/800 sec f/7.1 ISO1600 August 08, 2013



Aug 09, 2013 at 03:18 AM
kiddik
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p.27 #19 · p.27 #19 · How noisy is your 7D?


One thing I often see missing from this discussion is the level of light while these ISO comparisons are being made. I had a 7D and a 5D3 at the same time for a while, and while living in Iceland where the light levels are relatively dark most of the year, the 7D gets unbearable in less than good light. Comparing ISO in brightness is totally different to comparing them in darkness In good light, yes absolutely 7D produces good images and even if the ISO is cranked up a little, but when the sky is dark and heavy, the difference between the 7D (i.e. almost any crop sensor) and a recent fullframe sensor becomes much more.


Aug 09, 2013 at 09:28 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.27 #20 · p.27 #20 · How noisy is your 7D?


kiddik wrote:
One thing I often see missing from this discussion is the level of light while these ISO comparisons are being made. I had a 7D and a 5D3 at the same time for a while, and while living in Iceland where the light levels are relatively dark most of the year, the 7D gets unbearable in less than good light. Comparing ISO in brightness is totally different to comparing them in darkness In good light, yes absolutely 7D produces good images and even if the ISO is cranked up a little, but when the sky is dark and heavy,
...Show more

The key is exposure, not the light levels. If you are shooting in low light and expose properly, the noise is well managed. My guess is that you are underexposing by having too fast a shutter speed to stop the action and bringing the exposure up artificially during post processing? I have many low light examples, I am constantly shooting the kids as they play in the basement with just a couple of can lights, for example.

Just look at the exif data to see what light levels were like, provided the posters left the data intact on the files.



Aug 09, 2013 at 11:41 AM
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